Talk:Scythians

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Central Asia (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon Scythians is part of WikiProject Central Asia, a project to improve all Central Asia-related articles. This includes but is not limited to Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Tibet, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Xinjiang and Central Asian portions of Iran, Pakistan and Russia, region-specific topics, and anything else related to Central Asia. If you would like to help improve this and other Central Asia-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is part of the WikiProject for Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors who write Wikipedia's Classics articles. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Iran (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Ossetia    (Inactive)
WikiProject icon This article was within the scope of WikiProject Ossetia, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.
 
WikiProject Russia / History / Demographics & ethnography (Rated C-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia.
To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
Checklist icon
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the history of Russia task force.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the demographics and ethnography of Russia task force.
 
WikiProject Anthropology (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Anthropology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.
 
WikiProject Archaeology (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Archaeology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Archaeology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Dacia (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Dacia, a WikiProject aimed to better organize and improve the quality and accuracy of the articles related to ancient Dacia and primarily to the history of Dacians, Getae and Moesi. If you would like to participate, please improve this article and/or join the project and help with our open tasks. If you have questions regarding the goals of the project, as well as the time span, space, people and culture in the project scope, please review them here. Your input is welcomed!
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
Checklist icon
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
Stock post message.svg
To-do list for Scythians:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
  • Expand : Add notes on the Scythian - Getae connection, from possible ancestry to their relations, at least from Scythia Minor perspective
WikiProject Ethnic groups (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Scythians were not iranians[edit]

They were not "iranians" or indians, some of them become iranian and indo-europeans after part of them come to Iran, India and Europe much later. So, word "iranians" is not correct at all. They had proto-indo-iranian or proto-indo-european and proto-aryans language. This theory is based on Kurgan hypothesis and Yamna culture. Yamna peoples have spreaded own languages from own territory to rest of the Europe, India and Iran 183.89.196.19 (talk) 08:47, 24 June 2015 (UTC) Unfluenty conculusion !! Foundation and Arguments are cildish...! You can´t change the history becaus you are afraid from the facts!Kurgan and all the founded articels are belonging turkic ancients.. If you say i don´t accept that, this is your pour vision only! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810C:840:E40:18BD:54C5:6508:C606 (talk) 23:27, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Scythians were a Turkic people.[edit]

Scythians were not a Iranian, were a Turkic people. Madyas (talk) 22:48, 20 February 2015 (UTC) They were not "iranians", some of them become iranian after they come to Iran and India much later. So, word "iranians" is not correct at all. They are Proto-Indo-Iranian language or proto-indo-europians or protoaryans183.89.196.19 (talk) 08:27, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

That is a very minority view among scholars. Johnbod (talk) 00:36, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

No, just the opposite. Scythians were Turk accordin to generally accepted opinion. Madyas (talk) 08:32, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

No, they just weren't! sources? That is not to say that some people described, either in ancient times or in modern sources, as "Scythian" were not Turcic. The term is a very elastic one, as the article tries to make clear. Johnbod (talk) 15:46, 21 February 2015 (UTC) Johnbod (talk) 14:19, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Scythians were Turkic according to Oxford. Madyas (talk) 15:42, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Why should one listen to a nationalist who has no reliable sources with him and only likes to make disruptive edits? exactly. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:37, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Hey Iranian boy, "HistoryofIran" username, he is not a nationalist, not only all Turkish historians, I mean all Turks (I mean not only Turkey Turks, all Turkic peoples) believes the "Turkic" theory. But we are used to hearing these lies from Wikipedia lie "encyclopedia". For example, there is no "Turko-Persian" or "Persianate" Turkic khaganate, empire in Iran in history. But ridiculous thing that Wikipedia creates something popular in Iran or Europe, but not Turkic countries, if it suit for your freaking interests, you show us "Oxford" or etc. sources, but if not, "No, why we listen a nationalist?" Really? Give me a break... KARA (talk) 13:07, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
"you show us "Oxford" or etc."
René Grousset, The Empire of the Steppes: A History of Central Asia, Rutgers University Press, 7;"Modern linguists believe that the Scythians should be classified as an Iranian people— an Indo-European family.."
Bruce Lincoln, Death, War, and Sacrifice: Studies in Ideology & Practice, University of Chicago Press, 202;"Insofar as the Scythians were an Iranian people..."
Sarah Iles Johnston, Religions of the Ancient World: A Guide, Harvard University Press, 302;"...to the ritual use of hemp smoke among the Scythians (a non-Zoroastrian Iranian people)..".
John Van Antwerp Fine, The Early Medieval Balkans, University of Michigan Press, 307;"Scythians: An Iranian people which dominated the Steppes during the first millennium B.C..
David Schimmelpenninck van der Oye, Russian Orientalism: Asia in the Russian Mind from Peter the Great to the Emigration, Yale University Press, 13;"The first to enter recorded history in some detail were the Scythians, an Iranian people whom the fifth century B.C.E.".
Paul R. Magocsi, A History of Ukraine: The Land and Its Peoples, University of Toronto Press, 29;" The Scythians actually formed a branch of the Iranian people....
Christopher I. Beckwith, Empires of the Silk Road, Princeton University Press, 61;"The Scythians were a Northern Iranian people."
Introduction, Ann Farkas, The Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin, New Series, Vol. 32, No. 5, From the Lands of the Scythians: Ancient Treasures from the Museums of the U.S.S.R. 3000 B.C.-100 B.C. (1973 - 1974), 8;"The Scythians were an Iranian -speaking people , one of many groups of nomads who dominated the Eurasian steppes during the first millennium B.C."
Iranians and Slavs in South Russia, A. Kalmykow, Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 45 (1925), 68;"...was the discovery that the Scythian and Sarmatian tribes, who are the first historically identified inhabitants of South Russia, belong to the Iranian branch of the Indo-European family and form the Western part of the Iranians." --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:21, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Let us compare modern scholarship with historical authors who linked Herodotus’ Scythians with various Turkic tribes (like Huns, Turks, Khazars etc.).

Zosimus: "Unns are Royal Scythians".

Menander Protector: "Turks, in antiquity called Sakas".

Procopius of Caesarea: "peoples called in antiquity Cimmerians, now are called Utigurs".

Theophanes the Confessor: "Scythians, who also are named Unns", "Turks, in antiquity called Massagets".

• Rus Primary Chronicle: "from Scythians, i.e. Khazars, came so-called Bolgars".

Between 400 and 1500 A.D. Byzantine sources call Σκΰθαι - Skuthai - twelve different Turkic peoples  (G. Moravcsik, Byzantinoturcica II, p.236-39). How comes Scythians are now considered Iranian. I think this is a good question. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gokhan Su (talkcontribs) 07:54, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Did Ataturk himself discover all these stuff or was it invented later on in Ankara after his death?

    • It is very simple and very often done in the history, by the fabricators: Till 1650, the term "turks" / "turckik" meant ENTIRELY other people/languages.

Good night! --90.154.151.101 (talk) 19:53, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Survival of Scythian/Sarmatian langauge into the 1890s in Crimea[edit]

In the 1880s and 90s, when German philologists were combing through Crimea and the Ukraine, looking for various Germanic people--Goths or otherwise--that may have survived the ages, came across a few settlements in Crimea where the folks were using mysterious language(s) that at a closer examination, proved to be the modern-time survivors of the ancient Scytho-Sarmatian. Their records show that the language(s) were close to those of modern Ossetians (the only related people to Scythians/Sarmatians to survive into the present day). There were much Slavic and Turkic importation, but clearly these/this surviving language(s) was Scytho-Sarmatian Aryan/Iranic. in grammar and structure. Seemingly, that is that last time anyone encountered Scytho-Sarmatians in their ancient Crimean habitat...

An exhaustive, scientific article about this appeared about 20 years ago in the US. Would anyone has more information on this?

Settled metal workers producing for the Scythians[edit]

The Scythians conquered the Caucasus and pillaged and subjected the Maykop culture. The Dolmen City was part of the Maykop culture. The dolmens were millennium old safe deposit structures for the treasures belonging to those metal workers the main article mentions: "The Scythians and settled metal workers producing for them made portable decorative objects..." It is extremely important that historians understand and accept the true nature of the Dolmens of the Caucasus: these dolmens were safes or vaults where the metal workers kept their treasures. The Scythians invaded the dolmen city and enslaved the metal workers after sacking the dolmens and leaving them empty. This is a new quite important theory. 190.152.194.184 (talk) 17:16, 22 July 2015 (UTC) Santiago Sevilla

Why the "admins" are so afraid of discussions?[edit]

I can be seen "from the Skies" tht the admins are so afraid by possible discussions of the historical topics, that they often prefer more to lock the pages, or erase the talks, than to provide arguments for their "thesis"...? :) --90.154.151.101 (talk) 19:50, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Non-sequiturs in the Classical Antiquity section[edit]

This section:

" The Olanesti treasure is unique in Europe. Discovered in the 1960 the artefacts are dated to the 5th century BC. The treasure contain six helmets, five greaves and an oil lamp. All the pieces are from the army of the Alexander The Great under Zopyrion command "

does not make sense. Pieces dated to 5th century BCE (500-400 BCE) cannot also belong to the army of Alexander, who was not born until 356 and did not take the throne until 336 BCE. The last "sentence" here runs straight into the next:

"All the pieces are from the army of the Alexander The Great under Zopyrion command By the time of Strabo's account (the first decades AD), the Crimean Scythians had created a new kingdom extending from the lower Dnieper to the Crimea."

I am not going to attempt to fix this. The last time I tried to correct a grammatical error I got banned for "trolling". I know NOTHING about Wiki politics or customs. I do however like articles to make sense. And I can't even figure out what the writer(s) intended here, except that nobody named Zopyrion commanded troops under Alexander (I spent a decade researching the man), and I would wager that the name is Skythian due to its similarity to some Skythian names I've seen in classical histories. So it looks like there should be a period after "Alexander the Great" and "under Zypyrion command" may be left over from something that has been deleted.

2600:1003:B850:7B0:3426:EFA4:9188:8CB9 (talk) 00:32, 23 August 2015 (UTC)Cynndara Morgan (No, I'm not going to start an account because I don't have time to absorb dozens of pages of etiquette guides and then play politics. I'm a writer, not a politician.)

Thanks for spotting this. The sentence was introduced about a year ago without a source [1]. I've removed it for the time being, pending further investigation. Of course, the problem could simply be a mistake of saying "5th" instead of "4th". There does seem to have been a guy named Zopyrion who led a Macedonian army against the Thracians in Alexander's time. Fut.Perf. 16:24, 23 August 2015 (UTC)