Talk:Second Amendment to the United States Constitution

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Former good article Second Amendment to the United States Constitution was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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Objective scholarship[edit]

If you do a little research, you will find that Stephen Halbrook is not an objective scholar of the 2nd Amendment but was in fact paid by the NRA to produce a number of articles favorable to the private right view which its more radical members espoused. See "The Incoherence of Antonin Scalia", New Republic, 8/24/12; Bogus, "Heller and Insurrectionism" 59 Syracuse L.Rev. 253 (2008); Bogus, "The Hidden History of the Second Amendment", UCDavis L.Rev. 31 (1998) 309, notes 36-38.71.222.44.154 (talk) 07:44, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

There is an interesting article here that validates the ip's claims. It appears that the sections need to be reshaped to show that he is representing pro-gun arguments with consideration given to the weight of his claims relevant to the weight of other claims. Winner 42 Talk to me! 15:08, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
The article in no way validates the claim of the IP. GregJackP Boomer! 16:48, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
  • OK, first let's identify the refs you (the IP) are using:
  1. Richard A. Posner, The Incoherence of Antonin Scalia, New Republic, Aug. 24, 2012. Nowhere in this review of Scalia & Garner's book does Posner mention Halbrook, the NRA, paid editing, nor anything else in your assertion. It's a book review by an outspoken opponent of Scalia and a long-time proponent of gun control. Yet Posner also authored the opinion declaring the gun ban by Illinois unconstitutional citing Scalia in Heller, see Moore v. Madiagan, 702 F.3d 933 (7th Cir. 2012).
  2. Carl T. Bogus, Heller and Insurrectionism, 59 Syracuse L. Rev. 253 (2008). Again, nowhere does this article (actually from a symposium talk) mention Halbrook, the NRA, paid editing, nor anything else in your assertion. Second, the article is discussing the alleged endorsement in Heller of the right of the people to rise up against the government, a view which has been uniformly rejected by other scholars, at least as far as this article (it was only cited by 8 others according to Westlaw, 6 per Lexis, even Google Scholar only lists 13).
  3. Carl T. Bogus, The Hidden History of the Second Amendment, 31 U.C. Davis L. Rev. 309 (2008). Again, nowhere does this article mention Halbrook, the NRA, paid editing, nor anything else in your assertion. I'm not really sure what this pre-Heller scholarship has to do with this, but a 1998 article espousing a position completely repudiated by Scalia and Alito (and echoed by Posner in Moore) doesn't seem to be good scholarship either.
Halbrook, on the other hand, has both a PhD and a JD, and has argued (and won) two gun control cases at the Supreme Court. If you want to discredit Halbrook, this isn't the way. GregJackP Boomer! 16:40, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Exact wording at the top[edit]

Could someone please edit the article and put the exact wording at the top. I'm ten minutes into searching through the article and still haven't found it, yet. It needs to go before all the petty quibbles and bits the article is leading with now. THANKS --2602:306:30BA:28A0:18DF:1AE1:1947:EA26 (talk) 03:24, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Click on the first thing in the table of contents, titled Text. Ratemonth (talk) 03:46, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
Every article about an amendment to the U.S. Constitution has a Text section containing the amendment's wording with that section coming immediately after the article's Introduction. SMP0328. (talk) 04:41, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

The "deterring tyrannical government" reference[edit]

In looking at the footnote for the claim of the "deterring tyrannical government," the gist of the footnote does not support the claim of deterrence. It's the opposite and should not be included in the article. Either remove the claim or change it to "citation needed".

Here's the contents of that footnote: Col. Charles J. Dunlap, Jr. (1995). "Revolt of the Masses: Armed Civilians and the Insurrectionary Theory of the Second Amendment". 62 TENN. L. REV. 643. Retrieved December 18, 2012. "The concept postulates that the Second Amendment was intended to provide the means by which the people, as a last resort, could rise in armed revolt against tyrannical authorities."
How does the "gist" of this footnote not support the reference to the Second Amendment being for "deterring tyrannical government"? SMP0328. (talk) 20:00, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Lede is too long and biased[edit]

Since the 2nd amendment is so short, and since it is so controversial, it seems a better lede would simply state the text of the 2nd amendment, and perhaps have at most a few explanatory sentences. 2604:6000:120A:109:4944:C99D:9AE1:7AB0 (talk) 15:12, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

An Introduction is meant to summarize the contents of the article. This article's Introduction does that. The amendment's text is provided in the section immediately following the Introduction, which is standard for a Constitutional amendment article. SMP0328. (talk) 16:07, 27 July 2015 (UTC)