Talk:Secret detention centers of SBU

This article was nominated for deletion on 11 September 2018. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Removal of the word "alleged" before the "Russia-backed separatists" part[edit]

So, there's an ongoing edit-warring regarding the issue described in the topic heading, and I'm forced to discuss the reasoning that's already been discussed on a talk page of another article. Russian backing of separatists on the east of Ukraine has been also confirmed by multiple reliable sources in the relevant article, and in the source added to the current article by me (and reverted again by a disruptive editor). So what is the reasoning for calling Russia-backed separatists "alleged"?--Piramidion 14:28, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here's an abstract of a consensus lead section of the Russian military intervention in Ukraine article:

In April, demonstrations by pro-Russian groups in the Donbass area of Ukraine escalated into an armed conflict between the Ukrainian government and the Russia-backed separatist forces of the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics. In August, Russian military vehicles crossed the border in several locations of Donetsk Oblast.^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]

--Piramidion 14:32, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why dont you mention that the edit warring was initiated by you without even try to use the discussion page? FYI I've already made my point clear in the comment section, the sources have nothing to do with the topic of the article. How many times you gonna come back here with the same invalid arguments and the same irrelevant links? Finally I can recommend you to read the existing version of the text, cause the preliminary section reflects the article's main point. This is exactly what is expected to be in the abstract. --99.229.46.16 (talk) 17:42, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I'll have to ask again: what is your reasoning to insist on keeping the word "alleged" in that sentence?--Piramidion 17:57, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've read the Amnesty International report and found it strange that this article doesn't have a single mention of similar "detention centers" on the separatists' side. As for the sentence in question, it could be rephrased as "...to incarcerate civilians suspected of involvement with or supporting Russia-backed separatists", because that's what is stated in that report, literally.--Piramidion 18:19, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Shaun Walker; Oksana Grytsenko; Leonid Ragozin (4 September 2014). "Russian soldier: 'You're better clueless because the truth is horrible'". The Guardian. Retrieved 21 March 2015.
^ Per Liljas (19 August 2014). "Rebels in Besieged Ukrainian City Reportedly Being Reinforced". Time. TIME. Retrieved 28 August 2014.
^ "How the war zone transformed between June 16 and Sept. 19". KyivPost. 25 September 2014. Retrieved 21 March 2015.
^ "Exclusive: Charred tanks in Ukraine point to Russian involvement". Reuters. 23 October 2014.
^ unian, 8 April 2015 debaltseve pocket created by Russian troops - yashin

Why can't the article just say "pro-Russian separatists"? · • SUM1 • · (talk) 05:33, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[tg01xaa-1] Shaun Walker; Oksana Grytsenko; Leonid Ragozin (4 September 2014). "Russian soldier: 'You're better clueless because the truth is horrible'". The Guardian. Retrieved 21 March 2015.

[Time0x01-2] Per Liljas (19 August 2014). "Rebels in Besieged Ukrainian City Reportedly Being Reinforced". Time. TIME. Retrieved 28 August 2014.

[how_the_war_transformed-3] "How the war zone transformed between June 16 and Sept. 19". KyivPost. 25 September 2014. Retrieved 21 March 2015.

[tanks_white_circles-4] "Exclusive: Charred tanks in Ukraine point to Russian involvement". Reuters. 23 October 2014.

[5] unian, 8 April 2015 debaltseve pocket created by Russian troops - yashin

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