Talk:Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs

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he is a good man.amnaThis page should only list the Secretaries for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. The previous offices (Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Secretary of State for the Colonies, etc.) should have separate articles. john 23:51 May 9, 2003 (UTC)

Why? They are vastly equivalent roles! Anyway, this has a precedent elsewhere, see Secretary of State for International Development TreveXtalk 00:17, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm not really sure what the deal was - it was almost three years ago, and there were a lot less articles to take precedents from. As long as it's made clear that the two offices are different, and that the current office includes the gobbled up Commonwealth Affairs Office (which was itself the amalgamation of the Colonial Office and the Commonwealth Relations Office), I don't really care if it's decided to merge. john k 00:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I've reformatted the big list(section 1), but it's badly spaced out, I would fix this but I only did this to show how notepad + copy & paste can do, appologies if this messed anyone elses hard work, please revert if you don't like it, and feel free to fix the spacing --86.133.59.208 18:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Without the little-used status column the list could be shorter because we could spread out the dates onto one line, though I don't want to (and am not sure how to) make that change on my own. Ddye 02:13, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I've removed the status column, I think it looks much better now, as it is shorter and easier to understand.--86.133.59.208 11:10, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

We've lost Jack Straw! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.119.84 (talk) 00:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Requested Move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 00:03, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth AffairsForeign Secretary — The United Kingdom is the only country to have a minister commonly called a "Foreign Secretary"; the vast majority of foreign ministers hold titles which are all pretty much based on the formulations "Minister of/for Foreign Affairs", "Foreign Minister", and "Minister of External Relations". The US, the UK and Vatican City are pretty much the only exceptions with, respectively, "Secretary of State", "Foreign Secretary" and "Secretary for Relations with States". Foreign Secretary and Foreign secretary already redirect here. YeshuaDavid (talk) 23:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Any additional comments:

To respond to Skinsmoke: you are right in that "Foreign Secretary" is a common name name and not the full title, but WP:UCN stipulates we use the most comnon name where possible an appropriate. It's for that reason we use United Kingdom, not United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and FA Cup, not The Football Association Challenge Cup. YeshuaDavid (talk) 18:04, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Survey[edit]

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
  • Oppose: The official title is Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. Foreign Secretary is an informal shorthand version. Skinsmoke (talk) 17:09, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose: I would prefer to use the official title with the existing redirect from Foreign Secretary--Harkey (talk) 18:24, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

I appreciate the discussion is now closed, but I'd suggest that this decision is not comsistent with established naning conventions. Wikipedia articles are not based on official names - they are based on commonly used names. See WP:COMMONNAME:

Except where other accepted Wikipedia naming conventions give a different indication, title an article using the most common name of the person or thing that is the subject of the article (making the title unique when necessary as described in the following section and in the disambiguation guideline) (emphasis added)

AndrewRT(Talk)(WMUK) 11:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

The most important thing is that Foreign Secretary continues to redirect here, i dont have a problem with the full title being used. BritishWatcher (talk) 11:43, 13 June 2009 (UTC)