Talk:Semitic people

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  (Redirected from Talk:Semitic)
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Religion / Interfaith (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by Interfaith work group.
 
WikiProject Anthropology (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Anthropology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
 
WikiProject Assyria (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Assyria, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Assyrian-related topics. If you would like to participate, or visit the project page.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Egypt (Rated C-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Egypt, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Egypt on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Africa / Algeria / Chad / Comoros / Djibouti / Eritrea / Ethiopia / Libya / Mauritania / Morocco / Sudan / Tunisia / Western Sahara (Rated C-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Algeria.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Chad.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Comoros.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Djibouti.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Eritrea.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Ethiopia.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Libya (marked as Low-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Mauritania (marked as Mid-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Morocco (marked as Low-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Sudan.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Tunisia (marked as Mid-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Western Sahara.
 
WikiProject Arab world (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Arab world, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Arab world on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Israel (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Ethnic groups (Rated C-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

removed paragraph[edit]

I removed this paragraph from the section Ethnicity and race as it's NPOV, and irrelevant to the article.

Contrary to popular opinion the majority of Semites are Arabs and not Jews. By calling someone who speaks out against Israeli atrocities "anti-Semitic" is wrong, it halts discussion, mutes doubt, stops dialogues and crushes debate on Middle East policy —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sum0 (talkcontribs) 3:05, April 10, 2006


Egyptian (2)[edit]

While reading this article, I was quite alarmed to see that the Egyptians were listed as "Ancient Semitic Peoples". Although the ancient Egyptians are related to the Semites due to the fact that they both spoke Afro-Asiatic languages, the Egyptian branch is independent from the Semitic branch. That is, the relationship between the Egyptians and Arabs is analogous to, for example, the relationship between the Arabs and the Berbers, another Afro-Asiatic peoples. Please correct this immediately as it is very misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.201.171.81 (talk) 03:41, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Assyrians[edit]

  • Parpola: The Neo-Assyrian kings pursued an active policy of nation building, whereby the citizenship of Assyria was routinely granted to the inhabitants of newly established provinces. As a result of this, by 600 BC the entire vastly expanded country shared the Assyrian identity, which essentially consisted of a common unifying language (Aramaic) and a common religion, culture, and value system. This identity persisted virtually unchanged and was converted into an ethnic identity in the Neo-Babylonian and Achaemenid periods (600-330 BC). After the disintegration of the Seleucid Empire (130 BC), several semi-independent Mesopotamian kingdoms (Osrhoene, Adiabene, Hatra, Assur) perpetuated Assyrian religious and cultural traditions until the third century AD. From the fourth century on, Christianity has been an essential part of Assyrian identity and has helped preserve it to the present day despite endless persecutions and massacres, which have reduced the present-day Assyrians into dwindling minorities in their home countries. The self-designations of modern Syriacs and Assyrians derive from the Neo-Assyrian word for “Assyrian”, Assūrāyu/Sūrāyu.[1]

Can you read? This is not arranged linguistically as you claim here. It's an article about Semitic peoples, all of which are basically the same race, but with different ethnicities and different Semitic dialects. Also, how come you left Hebrews>Jews intact while you removed Assyrians into modern Assyrians? Why the double standard? — EliasAlucard|Talk 13:57 29 Oct, 2007 (UTC)

This article needs a health warning[edit]

It also needs some tidying up (e.g. the current lead waits until its last sentence to explain what the term refers to.

Re the health warning, here are two relevant articles:

In linguistics context, the term “Semitic” is generally speaking non-controversial... As an ethnic term, “Semitic” should best be avoided these days, in spite of ongoing genetic research (which also is supported by the Israeli scholarly community itself) that tries to scientifically underpin such a concept.
The term “Semitic,” coined by Schlozer in 1781, should be strictly limited to linguistic matters since this is the only area in which a degree of objectivity is attainable. The Semitic languages comprise a fairly distinct linguistic family, a fact appreciated long before the relationship of the Indo-European languages was recognized. The ethnography and ethnology of the various peoples who spoke or still speak Semitic languages or dialects is a much more mixed and confused matter and one over which we have little scientific control.

The point being that the concept of a "Semitic people" was very fashionable in the days of the mid to late 19th century romantic nationalism, but it has little credibility today. Not least because, as explained in the article Arabs, the largest group of people who might be called Semitic today are no longer thought to be of a "single ethnicity".

Does anyone disagree with this?

Oncenawhile (talk) 21:47, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

So ? you tried to show that we shouldn't use the term Semitic people, so do you want the article to be deleted ? what is your demand, what is the change you want to make ?? do you want to add these two paragraphs to the article ? or do you object the existence of it ?? because you only showed that this term is controversial which is stated in the article ! from the lead : As language studies are interwoven with cultural studies, the term also came to describe the extended cultures and ethnicities, as well as the history of these varied peoples as associated by close geographic and linguistic distribution.... where is the misleading ? --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 05:13, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
No I don't think it should be deleted, as the term is used in modern discourse (as is the term "Semite"). I simply think that the lead needs to be clear what we think "Semitic people" are, and what are the views of the modern scholarly community on its usage. The lead of the article Hamitic includes much of what this article needs. Oncenawhile (talk) 12:25, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Ok, understood, could you please write the sentences that you want to insert (or delete), so that they be added to the lead if no one have objections or be discussed and modified until a consensus is reached ?--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 12:40, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
I will do. Am just gathering WP:RS to base the additions on, including: [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7],[8], [9], [10], [11] Oncenawhile (talk) 20:55, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
I agree. Modern political usage of the term should not be a focus of this article. Antisemitism doesn't exactly mean "hatred of semites", after all. Prinsgezinde (talk) 00:40, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@Oncenawhile: Is the above still an ongoing project? —Telpardec  TALK  08:16, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Telpardec, yes it is but I just need to find the time to get round to finishing it. Do you have any thoughts on the topic that you would like to share? Oncenawhile (talk) 10:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
@Oncenawhile: OK. No particular thoughts. I was setting up auto-archiving and noticed things were left hanging in this thread.
Thanks. —Telpardec  TALK  11:07, 14 April 2015 (UTC)