Talk:Senegal

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Sénégal[edit]

"Sénégal" indeed! Senegal is an African word, not a French word. Nevertheless, anyone speaking English who pronounces "Senegal" as it it were "C'est n'égale", gets a big cream pie for being a pretentious boob. So, what's next? The Hilton Hôtel? We Wikipedians tend to owlishness anyway; we just have to keep a sense of proportion. --Wetman 21:35, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree, the most common form in English is without the acutes. Small villages in darkest France with no English equivalents, acutes are good; not for a nation. Stan 21:43, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Nobody having justified the change, I moved it back. Stan 21:59, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The "african" name is actually Sunu gal or our boats in Wolof. If you're going to be specific. We could also mention this in the article. --Madison Gray 19:11, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
There is no "african name" per se for Senegal. Ancient french maps from the 16th century mention the word "Senaga" for what is known today as the Senegal river. Legend has it thatwhen French explorers asked the river dwellers how they named their river, they answered "suñu gaal" ("our pirogue"), thinking they were referring to their embarcations. The official name of Senegal is "République du Sénégal", and this is what is used at the UN. The article's title should therefore revert to Sénégal, with the accents, as this is the official name of the country, like it or not.
Since the country is assembled from different kingdoms, there is no single african word that can describe it - if it was named Jolof or Saalum, it wouldn't please the Toucouleurs or the Diolas, who'd prefer Fouta Tooro and Bignona, respectively.
It's not necessarily a matter of French, "African" or English usage (nor should it be based on what sounds "pretentious" to me or even "most common") usage. When writing in English we don't routinely refer to "China" in ideograms but with Roman characters, whatever the official usage may be in Beijing (or at the self-consciously multilingual UN, for that matter). The Wikipedia Manual of Style on "National varieties of English" is a useful source here. The local official name in French can always be included in the lead paragraph, but the heading should follow English usage given that this is the English language Wikipedia. To expand just a bit, the Swahili language is just that in English, no matter that it's called KiSwahili by those who speak and teach it even when they speak English (the suffix "ki" means "language" in Swahili--the Swahili language entry does a good job with this although discussions have gone back and forth there, too). Neither is the French language called "français" in English usage, which is directly analogous I think. We might consider that the US State Department officially refers to the Côte d'Ivoire rather than "Ivory Coast" but to the Republic of Senegal rather than "République du Sénégal." Neither the UN or State Department may be the final word, but these are at least points of reference. With the special case of the Côte d'Ivoire notwithstanding, I use Senegal in an English context and Sénégal when I speak or write French.Danrebo 12:19, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Maybe we should have a seperate list for Senegalese athletes? There seem to be a lot of them. OneWorld22 07:13, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

POV[edit]

I know Senegal has one of the best reputations for recent stability, non-corruption etc. in Africa but some of this article is so utterly uncritical it seems weird. "Senegal has 65 political parties. They all contribute to development of the country by giving criticism and working toward a successful transition to democracy in the country and even among all developing countries of the African continent." "Today Senegal has a democratic political culture, and they have contributed to one of the most successful democratic transitions in Africa. Senegal recognizes and respects all cultures, religions and traditions." The last sentence is repeated again later. Now could you say of ANY country in the world "they respect everybody-end of story"? Someone who knows more about this may want to edit out the POV. Marskell 15:42, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Oh and someone should edit the economy section so it isn't a complete copy of the CIA world factbook...think we can do better than cut and paste. Marskell 15:47, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

The pretention that Senegal is exempt of corruption is unrealistic, and most Senegalese would not agree with it, even in the government. Transparency International ranks Senegal 78th over 155 in its "Corruption Perceptions Index" of 2005, at the same level as China and Morocco.

It would be nice to add information from the World Bank, the World Health Organization, Interpol, and Amnesty International.

I agree that the phrase "Senegal recognizes and respects all cultures, religions and traditions" is probably bogus. I agree that this article is definatly not written from a neutral pov. You'd think Senegal is a haven for everything democratic in the world. I'm sure it's a fine country but this article is almost misleading. I don't know much about Senegal at all so I hope someone can make some good rewrites. --Tainter 01:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

demographic information sources[edit]

I'm interested in knowing where the demographic information on this page (including the religion section) and on the Senegal demographics page comes from. Sources for statistics should be cited so we know when to replace them when more up-to-date statistics come out. The most recent census that I have gotten a hold of is 1988, which is surely out of date, but it gives statistics different from those reported here. (And some of the statistics on the demographics page are in some instances very different and seem unlikely to me.) I'm tempted to change the statistics to ones I can cite a source for unless someone can demonstrate that they have a credible source for these statistics. Jbenhill 03:06, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

As for most African countries, corruption is possibly the main scourge of the Senegalese economy. This, in turns, causes a trickle down negative flow that affects every other aspect of the country's developement. The social system is steady simply thanks to the strong familial, religious and cultural bonds that inhibit the marginalization of any group or people. This is however absent in the medical, industrial and agricultural fields where the economic weakness of the government, brought about by generations of corrupt political leaders, industry and business heads, allows for a free for all culture and an ineffectiveness that is somehow both accepted and expected by the masses. Presently, another side of the problem is raising its head in the form of claims of nepotism raised by the opponents of the President Ablaye Wade, whose son and daughter act as his close advisors and also anchor and manage public and private business deals whose transparency, if not its legitimacy,is questionned.

Question about Senegalese transportation system[edit]

Moved from article: http://www.air-senegal-international.com/ Besides the presence of a senegalese airplane firm, the road system consists of ??? 81.246.188.34 El_C 10:28, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Sticky people[edit]

Having visited Senegal, I believe the Wikipedia article lacks an important factor: the stickiness of the local people. I believe you should add something about that too. Aldough I hate to write something bad about Senegal or of the people for that matter, I believe the article wouldn't be complete without it. The stickiness is not exagerated, people keep following tourists and keep trying to sell you stuff, usually they keep walking alongside tourists for well over 20 seconds before they back down. And this every time you pass any of them.

This is common for any developing country. I visited Santo Domingo and had the same experience. Not sure if it's worth mentioning. Codingmonkey 20:08, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Not worth mentioning, at least not in this article. This sort of observation is unlikely to be described in what Wikipedia considers reliable sources anyway. -kotra (talk) 23:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
Aside from the fact that "stickiness" is being used in a very casual (most likely not understanding what is implied) context, most countries in the world are not different than the preceding description of "sickiness".

Democracy[edit]

The politics section seems to highlight Senegal as a democracy, which might just be a self-proclaimed democracy. It is not written in an NPOV encyclopedic style. Cygnus_hansa 01:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you that the section is not written from a neutral point of view, but you should have done your research before saying that Senegal "might just be a self-proclaimed democracy." The Economic Community of West African States has deemed Senegal's recent presidential elections "free and fair" [1]. The Carter Center writes that "Senegal understands the link between a healthy population and a healthy democracy" [2]. USAID remarks that "Senegal is a democratic and predominantly Muslim nation, one of the most stable countries in an unstable region" [3]. Dr. Alfred C. Stepan, professor of government at the School of International and Public Affairs at Columbia University, lauds Senegal as "one of the Islamic world’s most peaceful and democratic countries" [4]. Et cetera. -- WGee 23:19, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Car Rapides[edit]

Hi, I think 'car rapides' are worth mentioning on Wikipedia, but I don't know if it merits its own article or if it should be added under this article, or under the Transport_in_Senegal (which is primarily statistics), or the Dakar#transportation section (because, to the best of my knowledge and after speaking with a professor and other Dakar locals regarding it, they are unique to Dakar, but I have not found any verifiable sources that prove or disprove it).

Thanks Wskora (talk) 15:22, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Dakar Senegal is a good place to stay or work with?[edit]

Actually I don't have any idea if Senegal is a nice place to stay with or work with, please advise me because I have a job offer letter in Dakar Senegal..please.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.100.2.3 (talk) 08:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

You just have to read the infobox, especially the rankings for HDI and GDP per capita. Licor (talk) 13:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


Clarification needed - slave trade[edit]

Quoting article: "Various European powers—Portugal, the Netherlands, and Great Britain—competed for trade in the area from the 15th century onward, until in 1677, France ended up in possession of what had become an important slave trade departure point—the infamous island of Gorée next to modern Dakar."

Quoting Gorée article: "Gorée is famous as a destination for people interested in the Atlantic slave trade. In fact, however, relatively few slaves were processed or transported from there. The more important centers for the slave trade from Senegal were north, at Saint-Louis, Senegal or to the south in the Gambia, at the mouths of major rivers for trade."

I guess the second article is right, and as such, mentioning Gorée as a main slave trade point needs to be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aenariel (talkcontribs) 04:17, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up. I've corrected it here and on History of Senegal. -kotra (talk) 23:21, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Coat of Arms[edit]

I think that the Coat of Arms should not be displyed as a question mark. This encyclopedia is intended for all people of all levels and there are plenty of people out there that would believe that the Coat of Arms of Senegal is a question mark. Not only that but some citizens might find that a bit demeaning. If editors don't know the Coat of Arms perhaps it should just be left out until it is determined. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.250.46.223 (talk) 04:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Because we can only use freely licensed images on Wikipedia, several hundred images of Coats of Arms were recently deleted when a Russian company claimed copyright restrictions on the images we had. They are being recreated as free images, but we need that placeholder to know which have to be readded in which articles, and to provide a link to the article on the Coat of Arms of Senegal. T L Miles (talk) 01:00, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Translation[edit]

I have begun translating from the French Senegal page. Thus far, I have only translated the Etymology section, and I plan to add the translated tag to the talk page once I am done with the whole page. Luqavi (talk) 13:31, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Climate[edit]

According to the article, "Dakar's annual rainfall of about 600 mm (23.6 in) occurs between June and October when maximum temperatures average 27 °C (80.6 °F); December to February minimum temperatures are about 17 °C (62.6 °F). Interior temperatures can be substantially higher than along the coast..."

As one who has traveled extensively to Dakar and western Senegal in all seasons, I can assure you that those temperature numbers are off. Coastal Senegal is hotter than that. I believe these measurements are taken near the airport in a sort of lower temperature 'island', and are not typical of the Dakar region or coastal Senegal. However, there is little one can do about that.

One can, however, correct obvious mistakes. According to http://www.climatetemp.info/senegal/ , the average daily temperature between June and October in Dakar is given as 27 °C (80.6 °F) , not the maximum. The maximum is given as 30 °C (86.0 °F) and I will change the article, and also the Geography of Senegal article accordingly. In fact, I will rewrite these sections, since it makes little sense to me to include only the yearly maximum and minimum in different seasons. Rodney420 (talk) 15:24, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Upper Senegal = Mali[edit]

Upper Senegal was the former name of "French Sudan" (> Mali) Böri (talk) 10:35, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Bahai - irrelevant?[edit]

I would question the relevance of having a section on the Bahai faith. According to the figures given here around 1 in 600 Senegalese are Bahai, i.e. about a quarter of the proportion of people in England who claim to be followers of the Jedi religion. This can hardly be considered a significant aspect of Senegalese culture - it seems more like self-promotion by the followers of a minority religion, which detracts from the factual nature of the article. HairyDan (talk) 15:51, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

NPOV and blatant propaganda[edit]

Wikipedia:AdvocacyI am not going to call names, but do you trust the edits to Islam and Senegal to stand up to further analysis? When I see a trend of an editor chasing an agenda with such fervor and hatred I get worried. It is sad that senior editor do nothing about this. This is a warning to stop running around wikipedia inserting Serer propaganda to Islamic history and African history. I am sorry Serer got killed, but start a Serer page or something to let the world know. DO not use wikipedia for Serer advocacy. this A section on Islam in Senegal is not the history of Serer oppression. COPY AND PASTING anti-Islamic POV across wikipedia , well is not nice. --Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 16:06, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

@ Halaqah - What you call "Serer propaganda" against islam are in fact thoroughly sourced. In fact, in the main, as regards to islam at least, Serer references to islam seems to be the only ones throughly sourced. It may not be nice to hear but islam did not land on Senegal or Senegambia for that matter peacefully as claimed by one of the edits without a source hence the citation template placed there (see Klein and Daggs). Further, apart from the Jolas, only the powerful Serer tribes resisted the Arabized Berber jihad whilst others submitted (see Daggs; also Thiaw:La Religiosite de Seereer, Avant et pendant leur Islamisation). Our role here is to report the secondary sources per reported. You may not like what the Secondary sources have to say about how islam landed on Senegal or Senegambia but I am sure you would prefer to know the reliable sources than the dubious and unsourced claim that islam landed on Senegal peacefully. Wouldn't you? It may be interesting to know that, you cannot have the history of islam in Senegal without mention of the history of the Serer people in. The two went hand in hand. Those who submitted and those who resisted (the Serers) you cannot have one without the other. (Klein, La Civilisation Sereer Cossan, Henry Gravrand) Tamsier (talk) 17:21, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Tamsier (talk) 17:26, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

I have no issue with the history of the Serer people and a mention of conflict with ISlam. Thats is not however in the content I deleted. The content deleted is NPOV violations. It is not a matter of opinion. It is garbage and ahistorical and outside of reality. It insults other ethic groups who happen to be Muslim or Christian. It is so biased in tone it exposes who wrote it. One sign of a good article is you should never know "WHO" wrote it. In other words the content should never appear to be pro-Islamic, Pro-Jewish, Pro-African It should be balanced and reflective of reliable sources. Not to mention it is copy-edit across wiki and will have to be rmv. A source doesnt make propaganda correct. Here is a source "Islam is the greatest religion" [followed by 10 sources) does that make it true becauause I use unbalance opinions? No. Learn the rules because Klein and your fav Daggs [who?] have no weight here esp since their opinions and no others speak ill of non-Serer people. As i said you will find racist historians who write anything. Doesn't mean we reference it. "POWERFUL SERER" is a NPOV violation- Dont you know that. "They killed Muslims and won great victories against this foreign religion". Dagg et al are not people who even have a wiki page. You will find life on wiki easier by following NPOV especially well. U will find that for 6 years on wiki i have balanced the anti-African racism. giving balance and introducing the work of key African academics. BUT, as much as I love Africa I do not POV an article. You have it Serer = good, Muslims = foreign and bad. (pov).--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 18:05, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
@Halaqah can I ask which part do you have a problem with? You may not have read Klein's Islam and Imperialism in Senegal, but if you read it for yourself, you will discover that, the book is even more pro-Islam than Serer in the 19th cenutry. Both Klein and Daggs you can find in Google books. The article did not appear to insult any group that happens to be Muslim or Christian as far as I could see. It is merely reporting notable sources in a historical context. Don't take it too personally, it is merely reporting history as provided by the sources. If you have provided a notable source contrary to the sources provided, I will never delete it. I will merely add a statement like "but author X said..." then provide my source. I will never deleberately delete someone's notable source hence why I was fuming when I see others doing that, because it takes a lot of energy and time which I am sure you well appreciate. As for the phrase "powerful Serer tribes" which I believe that's what you are referring to (please correct me if I am wrong), that is not my wording. That is the wording of Daggs the author of the Book hence the quotation marks. It is in reference to the Almoravide jihads in modern day Senegambia in the 11th century in particular. It is part of history. It was a religious war at the time, muslims killed Sereres and Sereres killed Muslims. It was a religious war but also partly motivated by economics and politics. It is history. None of us can change it. As for the phrase "foreign religion" that is how Serer people view Islam and Christianity but Islam in particular (see Thiaw). Could it be that you are getting all worked up about nothing? Daggs may not have a Wikipage but I am sure you can appreciate that there are several other notable people who do not have a Wikipage and Wiki page does not necessary equate notability.

Tamsier (talk) 21:38, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Having a google book doesnt make you NPOV and it does pass reliable sources esp using that tone. You cannot quote an author who has a bias as a way of getting around NPOV. Why not add what Hilter thinks into a Jewish article? Can you do that? No because it is racist and unbalanced. Their books with that tone fail Template:Reliability.It is undue weight to people who are invisible after a google search. Before continue to cause a problem for yourself on Wiki please read the wiki style of editing. which is very clear. foreignWe do not care what the Serer think of Muslims or what Muslims think of Serer we report NPOV. State the facts [citation needed] without the bias which favors one group. Arabized Berbers (in a pejorative tone) is also a NPOV violation since it seeks to make them look like conquered people. Since there is nothing "Bad" about Being Muslim, it is not necessary to celebrate resisting it. which is the tone of the content rmv. It should just state They resisted and the neutral details of it without any favourites. WP:V and Wikipedia:Search engine test after doing such Daggs 2 unreviewed books is a non-notable person with two poorly published books. And I see no peer review to verify such strong claims by this author. Again when a person reads and article they should not know a Muslim wrote it or a Non-Muslim, it should represent a balance opinion on the topic, and at times that may lend to one POV but it will be balanced in the next sentence. When editing controversial topics quality sources are critical. Here is the best we can find on this Fashion editor (unless it is a different person with the same name, now is an "AUTHORITY" on Muslims in Africa??? See Daggs Ebay used book for sale--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 22:35, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
@Halaqah - I am sure you appreciate we go by sources here. I do not have to remind you of that fact. All Serer articles and Serer references to Islam have been sourced with notable sources. No objection was brought in about the non sourced claim that Islam landed on Senegal's shores peacefully and non sourced claim that Islam became a banner of resistance against colonialism, yet objection is being made about Serer people references which are all thoroughly sourced from notable sources. The Serer people's strong resistance against Islam for a thousand years is documented and well sourced and merits to be added to an Encycopedia like Wiki. As regards to the objectionable tone, yet again no mention about the unsourced tone of Islamic victory in Senegal was raised but sourced Serer references which are in fact direct quotes from authors. As regards to Elisa Daggs or any other author for that matter, one is at liberty to discredit them if one so wish but one should do that in another page. I for one will not be partaking in that but others are free to do as they so wish. All I am interested in is that, she has authored a notable source on the subject (the title of the book is given in the article please feel free to refer to it) and directly quoted where necessary in keeping with Wiki's policy. If you have other sources about Islam in Senegal I would advise that you use them under Islam in Senegal. The Islam section is poorly sourced, in factly it lacks any sources whatsoever hence the "citation needed" templates I placed on them. I am sure your assistance in this regard will be greatly appreciated. If you have a different notable source against any of the authors cited in the Serer religion and Animism section, you are also at liberty to cite your sources. However I am sure you are familiar with the protocol of not deleting another editor's notable source and content but merely inserting something like "according to author X....." - or something like that. Apart from that, I have nothing else to add to this page until it becomes absolutely necessary to do so. Thank you.
Tamsier (talk) 15:29, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  • The Serer people are the third largest group in Senegal. As such, it is appropriate to give them proper treatment in this article (with, as is the case, larger treatment at the Serer article). I don't see a problem withe the RSs used, but if anyone does and agreement is not reached here they can seek input at the RSN.--Epeefleche (talk) 22:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Religious demographics[edit]

I have deleted the following:

According scholar Fatou K. Camara, the religious makeup is: Muslim 94%; Christian 5% (mostly Roman Catholic); Indigenous beliefs 1%. She also notes that "Indigenous faith still shapes the spiritual beliefs of the majority of Senegalese people."[1][2][3]

  1. ^ http://iclrs.org/docs/Fatou%20New.pdf
  2. ^ Bressers, Hans; Rosenbaum, Walter A. (December 2003). Achieving Sustainable Development: The Challenge of Governance Across Social Scales. Praeger. ISBN 978-0275978020. 
  3. ^ Moving from Teaching African Customary Laws to Teaching African Indigenous Law. By Dr Fatou. K. Camara

I looked up the Achieving Sustainable Development: The Challenge of Governance Across Social Scales and could not find Camara's name in the book. A page number would be most useful. The first reference is not reliable as it is self-published. The third source appears to be teaching materials. This is self-published as well and is not reliable. Please see WP:IRS to help identify reliable sources to use in articles on Wikipedia. If Fatou K. Camara is notable enough to be mentioned on a Wikipedia article as a scholar, then her demographic statistics should have been published in a peer-reviewed journal somewhere rather than some handout she gave at a lecture. --Odie5533 (talk) 01:26, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Weight in religious or any subject[edit]

WP:UNDUEIn an article about Senegal (a country) the article weight or focus must fit that demo. In other words it would be strange to read about Saudi Arabia and see more text and detail about Hinduism in Saudi. Same here. 90% Muslim means the weight of the text must favor that. Also since this article is about a country all religious should be a stub, the 1 percent cannot be larger than its weight in the country in any article.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 21:06, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

  • My response to this has been discussed here [5]

and here [6] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamsier (talkcontribs) 20:41, 15 October 2011 (UTC) Tamsier (talk) 20:44, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Formating Religious section, no WP:SYN[edit]

According to the reliable sources (redundant), the Serer population who make up the third-largest group (14.7 percent)[44], mostly follow the Serer religion.[45][46] They make up 1/3. but that doesnt mean they are the 3rd largest religion in Gambia. It is WP:SYN pls to take a stat for an ethnicity and an opinion of scholars/academic/historian who cannot quantify [quantify]. has not done any demographic measurements "most practise" there religion means nothing but an opinion which cannot be verified. It has no demographic value and is an opinion which should not be in a demographic section but a religious one. Moreover as explained elsewhere it is [dubious ] given every demographic say 90 percent Muslim what is left is majority Christian hence it is illogical and contradictory to get 14 percent out of 90+Christians.. More info on SYN "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. If one reliable source says A, and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C that is not mentioned by either of the sources. "--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 19:44, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

  • This article is about Senegal, so why say "3rd largest religion in Gambia". The CIA link you have posted regarding religious demography of Senegal did not work when I clicked on it. Tried a search but nothing. Will try again later not today. In any case, the majority Muslim community syncretize Islam with the Traditional African religion like Serer religion and as such, they deserved to be mention. I was about to save an edit in the Demographic discussion you started (above) but due to edit conflict, I couldn't. That edit was in agreement with stubbing religious articles until you opened this discussion. I have no issue with reformating as stated here: [7]. The Serer people of Senegal are the third largest group and deserves equal treatment. Your opinion about them is irrelevant. As the third largest group, their religion is part of the African religion which is mixed by both Christian and Muslims communities. As such, it merits to be discussed. As regards to the sources cited, as you well know they are reliable. The purpose was to show that the claim made that "90% are muslims and 10% Christians etc cannot be accurate since the Serer people never mind the Jola people who make up the 3rd largest group follow Serer religion which is certainly not Christianity or Islam but African. Therefore, something is not right somewhere.

Tamsier (talk) 20:35, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

no weight here, should be in a detailed article about religion. BIG statements require BIG proof. Summing up the religiousity of MOST Gambians should have a major mainstream content - not a few detailed academic books. For a detailed article - Yes. For Senegal article - NO. Your pattern of trying to mitigate non-Serer issues and add to the profile of Serer is an advocacy WP:ADVOCACY (please read this) issue and I feel it brings unnecessary weight and distracts from the quality. Even in the face of serious stats you continue to push for increase the profile. MAKES NO DIFFERENCE when R.S sources list the religious profile as 80-90% . All the Camera stuff has been thrown out, it is not a R.S for demographics or religiosity. Even if it is not 90% Muslim it certainly would still not have enuff to support for this pure Serer religion or mixture with Islam (which is invisible in google Google result of low priority content. See how google rank is used to determine weight. In the entire BBC BBC Serer comes up twice, Zero in CNN. Zero in All Africa All Africa Serer religion. Maybe it is a French thing. As a editor we edit to give a reality of the country, to add these things creates undue weight, and gives the novice reader the impression which is not a real. You will equally find an academic scholarly book which says anything it wants (for those academic circles). It is not the everyday opinion, or reality in mainstream Sengegambia. Mixing is hardly to the degree seen in Vodon or Obeiya, google them and see the result. There are 1000 things that could be said about religion in Senegal. The most notable most unique things get priority. It cannot be quantified it cannot be measured it has no meaning since it is common all over the world, so why mention it here? Is it different in Bangladesh? (nope), In Indonesia, In Rome(no), Gambian Muslims are no different in their Islam to Saudi Muslims. (Gambians have their unique culture, Arabs have theirs) Islam is not a monolith and Saudi is not the standard by which Senegal measures its Islam. per 1 million reliable sources "It takes on the personality of every culture" (Hakim Quick). Per wiki weight policy, You can go through 1000 articles written on Islam and Gambia/Senegal in the local papers, Mosque, etc CNN, National Geographic, BBC and this does not come up. The most I have read is more about Westernization and music (that comes up). Do they pray different? Do they worship some tree on Sunday? Where in their Islam is this mixing, that is so unique? Borrowing names is not mixing, it is a language issue. Kaba is therefore a pagan word (for eg). Quantify this mixing? This Serer thing is low priority in a google search and hence fails the weight. Compared (for argument sake) the influence of Shia or Saudi Islam on West Africa. I have taken my time to explain this and it applies across the articles where this comes up. We CANNOT keep using wikipedia to advocate the Serer religion or any religion beyond its weight in reality! --Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 21:07, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
  • As stated above, I am in agreement with stubbing religion and syncrethization can be discussed in the relevant Islam and Christianity religion articles. Therefore, I don't know what the problem is. You commented that:
"Your pattern of trying to mitigate non-Serer issues and add to the profile of Serer is an advocacy WP:ADVOCACY.."

This is a big accusation. For years I have added sources to African related articles which I didn't even edit other than to provide sources in order to protect them. Most of those have nothing to do with Serer people whatsoever. When I see the practice of Islam in Senegal or The Gambia for that matter being wrongly reported on Wiki as some sort of promotion and in many cases without sources, I have to step in to redress the balance. In any case, since the religion section has been reformatted, there is really no discussion, and those "1000 things" to say about religion in Senegal can perhaps be indicated in the relevant article. As for your sarcastic "French" comment regarding Serer religion, I urge any Serer reading this not to take it personally and I certainly will not. I have nothing else to add to this particular discussion. The religion section has been reformated so lets leave it at that. Tamsier (talk) 23:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)


Etymology[edit]

Wouldnt it simply be a variant on Seneschal, medieval title? some internet refs list senegal as a variant of this word, and there is a history of Senegal as a creole/french family name in louisiana, including among african americans, who probably didnt choose the country name as a family name. Just trying to further confuse the matter, sorry if i did :). (Mercurywoodrose)12.125.80.214 (talk) 18:31, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Religious demographics 2[edit]

There is an inconsistency in the religious demographics section. In the first paragraph it says 5% of the population is Christian, but later on it says 10% are. Tweisbach (talk) 01:29, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Comment on material I just deleted[edit]

I've deleted "Just as in the Gambia, these figures should be taken with caution. <ref>The Wolof percentage above is misleading because other tribes who have been "Wolofized" (the advent of Wolofization, encouraged by certain organizations) and speak the Wolof language are added to this figure when in actual fact they are not Wolofs at all. See: African Census Analysis Project (ACAP). [[University of Pennsylvania]], Ethnic Diversity and Assimilation in Senegal: Evidence from the 1988 Census by Pierre Ngom, Aliou Gaye and Ibrahima Sarr. 2000</ref>" The source can be read at [8] and imho is a complete misrepresentation of that paper, which he uses at other articles, for some reason never mentioning "The present research confirms anecdotal evidence in the Senegalese printed press of the decreasing size of the Serer ethnic group." Dougweller (talk) 10:11, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Major city meltdown[edit]

The map on the right of this section bears essentially no resemblance to the list of major cities. The #2 city of the country somehow doesn't make iot onto the map (or is named differently). This totally needs to be changed. Red Slash 18:02, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

election confusion[edit]

"In 1980, President Senghor decided to retire from politics, and he handed power over in 1981 to his handpicked successor, Abdou Diouf. Mamadou Dia ran for reelection in 1983 against Diouf but lost." Where does Mamadou Dia come in? This is first mention of this person. Did Abdou Diouf become president in 1981? Was he appointed or was he elected? How could Mamadou Dia run for REelection if Abdou Diouf was (still?) president?Kdammers (talk) 03:24, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

National motto[edit]

The national motto, as I've heard it from Senegalese people, should read "Toubab, mai ma velo bi." -Kaolacker — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.83.44.105 (talk) 16:48, 17 January 2014 (UTC)