Talk:Seven Heavens

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Sources[edit]

Seventh Heaven: Judaism section, does not cite sources. It is written "Jewish mysticism", which exactly, Ari kabbalah, cristian kabbalah, western kabbalah? It seems to me that to name Judaism may be in accurate.

Different beings are Samuel are Chamuel. Almost in every sources archangel Chamuel(Kamael)is the ruler of the fith heaven. Please describe how do you find, that Samuel is the ruler.

TT.

"Outside time"[edit]

Saturn was called Chronos by the Greeks, and was considered to be the Father of Time, and above it, time wasn't supposed to exist. This led to the idea that God exists "outside of time."

While Christianty did blend with 'pagan' Roman beliefs (especially among commoners), I don't think this statement can go unqualified. What serious Christian (or Jewish or Muslim) sage/philosopher would use the powers of a pagan Greek/Roman god in order to explain the Judeo-Christian's God's temporal status? --Lode Runner 01:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


Removed the "Chronos=Kronus=Saturn=Yahweh" postulation as it's obviously nonsensical and misinformed. --JLKE 09:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Saturn is KRONOS (CRONUS) not CHRONOS[edit]

therefore the outside of time thing makes no sense.

not only americans...[edit]

Not only Americans say "I am in seventh heaven" in this meaning. In Czech Republic we say it, too and I guess that there are actually many other countries, where this proverb is used... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.176.40.127 (talk) 16:53, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Removing almost all of article![edit]

Some people removed almost all of the article because of lack of enough citation. It is not a good way for improving wikipedia! ,My Freind, Many location of the article that you removed have enough document, also the links to heavens according to Jewish literature have a lot of Citing sources. I think you should not remove all of the so important article so fast and you should talk about it one by one here first!--Submitter to Truth (talk) 06:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

This is because virtually the entire article is unreferenced. Of the three formal references in the original, two did not contain the statements referenced to them. The rest of the article makes very loose mention of various ancient documents that it claims support these views, but this is improper synthesis of primary sources, and thus original research. This material has been templated/tagged as such for over two months, so was legitimately be deleted. Please DO NOT restore this material without FIRST providing adequate sourcing for it -- per WP:PROVEIT. HrafnTalkStalk 07:46, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Removed material[edit]

Given that concerns have been raised about the removed material being 'lost', I'm including a copy here (shorn of templates & citations-that-fail-to-verify). Please do not return any of this material to the article until it has been properly sourced and any original synthesis has been removed. HrafnTalkStalk 18:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

It was believed by many cultures, and still is by some today, that when people die, their souls float into the sky, visiting each of the Seven Heavenly Objects as they travel to the outermost layer of heaven. When they reach that outermost layer, they are believed to actually meet God, who was/is supposed to exist just above the last layer of heaven, just above the orbit of the planet we currently call Saturn.

Judaism[edit]

According to Jewish mysticism, Heaven is divided into seven realms. In order from lowest to highest, the seven Heavens are listed alongside the angels who govern them and any further information:

  1. Shamayim: The first Heaven, governed by Archangel Gabriel, is the closest of heavenly realms to the Earth; it is also considered the abode of Adam and Eve.
  2. Raquia: The second Heaven is dually controlled by Zachariel and Raphael. It was in this Heaven that Moses, during his visit to Paradise, encountered the angel Nuriel who stood "300 parasangs high, with a retinue of 50 myriads of angels all fashioned out of water and fire." Also, Raquia is considered the realm where the fallen angels are imprisoned and the planets fastened.
  3. Shehaqim: The third Heaven, under the leadership of Anahel, serves as the home of the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life; it is also the realm where manna, the holy food of angels, is produced. The Second Book of Enoch, meanwhile, states that both Paradise and Hell are accommodated in Shehaqim with Hell being located simply " on the northern side."
  4. Machonon: The fourth Heaven is ruled by the Archangel Michael , and according to Talmud Hagiga 12, it contains the heavenly Jerusalem, the Temple, and the Altar.
  5. Machon: The fifth Heaven is under the administration of Samael, an angel referred to as evil by some, but who is to others merely a dark servant of God.
  6. Zebul: The sixth Heaven falls under the jurisdiction of Zachiel.
  7. Araboth: The seventh Heaven, under the leadership of Cassiel, is the holiest of the seven Heavens provided the fact that it houses the Throne of Glory attended by the Seven Archangels and serves as the realm in which God dwells; underneath the throne itself lies the abode of all unborn human souls. It is also considered the home of the Seraphim, the Cherubim, and the Hayyoth.

Islam[edit]

Islamic tradition recognizes heaven and paradise as separate places. The heavens (as-samawat) are seven levels, the first and lowest level of which is known as Dunyah. Dunyah encompasses the entire universe as we know it, including the Earth, stars, and other planets as described in the Qur'an:

"See you not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, and made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun a Lamp?" (Surat Nuh 71:15–16)
"Blessed is He in Whose Hand is the dominion; and He is able to do all things. Who has created death and life that He may test you which of you is best in deed. And He is the Almighty, the Oft-Forgiving; Who has created the seven heavens one above another; you can see no fault in the creation of the Most Gracious. (Surat Al-Mulk 67:1–3).

As-Samawat (the Heavens) are not the same as Al-Jannah (the Paradise). Jannah is the final place for all of God's creations who: believed there is only one God, did not associate others with Him, obeyed God's commandments, followed the Messengers of God, and who did good deeds in their lives. Only these people enter the gates of Jannah with the mercy and forgiveness of Allah (God).

Jannah has seven levels. On Muhammad's journey to the heavens, known as Isra and Mi'raj, he saw the seven Heavens and met different prophets at different levels.

This belief is further supported by the traditions (hadith) of Muhammad:

"The best of the shuhada’ are those who fight in the first rank and do not turn their faces away until they are killed. They will have the pleasure of occupying the highest dwellings in Paradise. Your Lord will smile at them, and whenever your Lord smiles upon any of His slaves, that person will not be brought to account." [Musnad Ahmad, Kitab al-zuhd, 2/286, hadith no. 2982]
"The one who sponsors an orphan, whether from his own wealth or from the orphan’s wealth, I and he will be like these two in Paradise." – and Malik (the narrator) gestured with his forefinger and middle finger."
"Allah will raise the status of His righteous slave in Paradise, and he will say, ‘O my Lord, how could I deserve this?’ He will say, ‘Because your child sought forgiveness for you.’"

The highest level in Jannah is al-Wasilah. This is also narrated in a hadith narrated by Bukhari from Jabir ibn Abdullah, according to which Muhammad said:

"Whoever says, when he hears the call to prayer: ‘Allahumma Rabba haadhihi’d-da`wati’t-taammah, wa’s-Salati’l-qaa’imah aati Muhammadan al-wasiilah wa’l-faDiilah, wab`athhu maqaaman maHmoodan alladhii wa`adtah (O Allah, Lord of this perfect Call, and the prayer to be offered, grant Muhammad al-Wasilah [the highest position in Paradise], and also the eminence, and resurrect him to the praised position You have promised),’ intercession for him will be granted on the Day of Resurrection."

The Sahabah asked Muhammad, "What is al-Wasilah?" He said, "It is the highest level of Paradise, which only one man will reach, and I hope that I will be the one." This was reported by Ahmad from Abu Hurayrah; Ahmad also reported from Abu Sa`id that Muhammad said:

"Al-Wasilah is a rank above which there is no other in the sight of Allah. Ask Allah to grant me Al-Wasilah." [See Ibn Kathir, Al-Nihayah, 2/2332]
"When you pray ask for Firdaws, for it is in the middle of jannah and is higher in grade than the Jannah and above Firdaws is Allah’s throne, moreover the rivers of jannah flow from Firdaws." (Bukhari)

[End of removed material. HrafnTalkStalk 18:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC) ]

Seven Heavens in Islam[edit]

according to Shi'ite sources, A Hadith from Ali mentioned the name of Seven Heavens as below:[1]

  1. Rafi' (رفیع) the least heaven (سماء الدنیا)
  1. Qaydum (قیدوم)
  1. Marum (ماروم)
  1. Arfalun (أرفلون‏)
  1. Hay'oun (هيعون‏)
  1. Arous (عروس)
  1. Ajma' (عجماء)

References

  1. ^ Al-Burhan fi Tafsir Al-Qur'an V.5 P.415

Redirect[edit]

Given that this article contains very little sourced material, insufficient to maintain a coherent article, I'm redirecting it to the dab page, until such time as material for a proper treatment arises. HrafnTalkStalk 03:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

The article had enough sourced material and I have added more. Also I have moved it to seven heavens that seems a better description.--Submitter to Truth (talk) 21:02, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
Baloney! It had only a single, primary, source -- as can be seen here. The material that you added as 'Seven Heavens in Judism' is WP:COPYVIO of http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1521&letter=A, so I'm removing it. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 04:02, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
You are right. I have rewrote the material according to Talmud and Jewish Ency. Thanks--Submitter to Truth (talk) 13:34, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

7 Heavens in Christianity[edit]

Some mention (at least in passing) should be made of examples of these traditions in early Christianity. For example, doesn't Paul or someone describe himself as going to the third heaven?

WP:RS? HrafnTalkStalk(P) 07:38, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I have read more on this subject, and there is scholarly consensus that the writers of the New Testament were familiar with the Book of Enoch (even referring to or quoting it), and were familiar with the 7 heaven concept. It should be mentioned - I can try to get together the sources and summarize them in the article.Jimhoward72 (talk) 09:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps at least bring up that the concept can be found in the Divine Comedy's representation of Heaven? I realize it's not a "Christian" work in the sense of religion, but Dante wouldd obviously have drawn from the beliefs of Christianity (or Judaism) to create them. If nothing else, the concept of layered Heaven fits with the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.241.114 (talk) 01:09, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Hinduism-Buddhism STUB SECTION and new Summary[edit]

Added as absolutely essential unless this is to be an exclusive branch for Abrahamic children (haha - that's a double entendre.) Here is my reason for edit: Article should be retitled "Judeo-Christian ~ " or Hindu-Buddhist section added as older and more informative. I am taking the latter action as a first step.

However please if you have some time to look at my reference and look for some others and start this section -- I promise to follow up and check things.

ALSO I added a new summary to present the subject with respect to the high esoteric school in common that it is.

Best regards to the world community. Xgenei (talk) 21:26, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

  1. New threads go at the bottom of the talkpage
  2. The claim that "Seven Heavens in Hinduism-Buddhism" is "Possibly the primary source of metaphysical lessons" is WP:SYNTH.
  3. Your rewrite of the lead sentence violates WP:LEAD.

HrafnTalkStalk(P) 06:11, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The confusion between Heaven and heavens[edit]

I really don't understand why people here are continually confusing the seven heavens (Quranic Samāwāt and Biblical Shemāyim) with "Heaven" i.e. Paradise (Quranic Janna and Biblical Jan meaning "Garden" i.e. Garden of Eden [Jannatu l‘Adn in the Qur'an]). The Prophet Muhammad on the night of Isrā' and Mi‘rāj did not travel through Janna but through the Samāwāt. However He did visit Heaven i.e. Janna, along with Hell (Nār meaning "Fire" i.e. Hellfire or Jahannam [Talmudic Jehinnam or Jehinnom]) as he reached the highest or farthest Samā' (singular form of Samāwāt).

There is no concept of seven Jannas in Islam.

"According to Shi'ite sources, a hadith from Imam Ali mentions the name of the seven heavens[6] as mentioned below: 1. Jannatul Ma'wa (The Lowest) 2. Daarul Maqaam 3. Daarus Salaam 4. Daarul Khuld 5. Jannatul Adan (The Middle) 6. Jannatun Naeem 7. Jannatul Kasif 8. Jannatul Firdaus (The Highest)"

These names have no connection to the topic of this article. The article is concerned with seven heavens not eight Jannas These are names of eight Jannas (Heaven or Paradise) not seven heavens (Samāwāt).

The concept of seven heavens (Quranic Samāwāt and Biblical Shemāyim) also can found in ancient traditions around the world. From Indian (originally Vedic and Hindu and later Buddhist and Jainist) to Mesopotamian (originally Sumerian and Akkadian and later Babylonian and Assyrian) traditions. In Indian and Mesopotamian tradition, they are called Swarga and An respectively. Even the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians and ancient traditions around the world believed in the plurality of heavens. Well, the main difference between the ancient pagan traditions and the Abrahamic traditions is that the former viewed them as "abodes of the righteous" which the latter did not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.149.7.106 (talk) 09:17, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Catholicism[edit]

This needs some references and prose concerning Catholicism, or that shouldn't be in the lede. Dennis Brown |  | WER 18:05, 7 July 2014 (UTC)