Talk:Shaitan

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Shaitan in Dune[edit]

Removed from the article:

"Shaïtan is also one of the names of the giant worms in the novel Dune by Frank Herbert."

I can't remember or corroborate this, so I removed it from the article.

Well, read Dune again. Look at eg: "... fragments of melange, which Shaitan sometimes left behind in his passage." (Heretics of Dune), "Melange explosion brought Shaitan. No sandworm could resist a spice blow in its territory" (Chapterhouse Dune). It's how people call the worms after the death of Leto II, obviously after the word for Satan...
shaitan and shai-hulud are both names for the worms in dune; shaitan is the name of the worms when the rage and attack in the early books, but then in heretics of dune (i never read chapterhouse), the worms are always considered to be shaitan, because their have some of leto ii's essence/consciousness in them, and are more malicious towards humans, and more intelligent (they were animals in books 1-4).
Why has this information on Dune been removed? Unless there is a valid reason (and keeping this a religious article is not a valid reason, nor is it scholarly), please do not remove this information.
To my knowledge, the Fremen never referred to the sandworm as Shaitan. The Fremen referred to him as Shai'hulud or a Maker. Sheeana was the first to name him Shaitan after he killed her family. This was a shock to the Priests of the Divided God who considered Sheeana to be blessed because she could stand in the presence of the Divided God without being killed. Although Sheeana was the Tyrant's "sandrider", she was not really a Fremen. Being related to or decended from Fremen does not make you a Fremen. This is proven by the fact that there was at times intermarriage between sietch and village, yet there was disrespect for the people living in the villages even though they were distant relatives. What marks a true Fremen is following The Way. I conclude that no Fremen ever referred to the sandworm as Shaitan.


Yes, Shaitan is the name for the divide god in the later books of the Dune series. Leto II actually states that people will call him Shaitan when he returns. Sheeana does this in "Heretics of Dune" (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heretics_of_Dune) and in "Chapterhouse". 128.111.119.34 17:25, 18 June 2007 (UTC)Joe in CA

Misc Info[edit]

shaitan (singular)/shayateen (plural; i dont know dual) is also a category of jinni (see here); should that be included? Nateji77 08:08, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Removing crap[edit]

  • Shaitan was also the Chaldean form of the Egyptian god Set.
Somebody please back this with something. Sweetfreek 01:17, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
This sort of attitude towards information is unscholarly and uncalled for. It might not be backed up, but its certainly not "crap".


Clarity and Bias in the Garden of Eden[edit]

"...nor does the Quran mention anything that there was another tree."  

This makes no sense. I would fix it, but I have no idea what the original editor was trying to say.

More importantly than that, the italicized portions of "Shaitan and Adam and Eve" have a very anti-Judeo/Christian bias. I'm taking them out altogether.

Speaking of clarity and bias, what exactly is implied by the whole section about Tree of Life in Bible or "In Islam, the notion that God 'feared' that Adam or Eve would eat from that tree and rival Him is something completely contradictory to the concept of Almighty God." This seems to be, if not wholly irrelevant to an article on shaitan, at least completely biased. I have removed this material as it is largely irrelevant anyway, and hardly up to scholarly standards as the information is incorrect.

I'm also removing "Also, it must be stressed that unlike the Bible, the Qur'an does not blame or state that Eve goaded her husband into eating the forbidden fruit, nor does it relieve Adam of any blame for disobeying either." This article is not a comparison of the Hebrew Bible and the Quran, and this information is moreover irrelevant to an article about shaitan.

The article claims to be only pertaining to Islam, but throughout there are erroneous references to Judeo/Christian beliefs. Why? This peer reviewer is giving up on deleting the irrelevent and incorrect information (whoever wrote them put them in italic to emphasize their personal beliefs) as the writer seems hell bent on replacing them. This peer editor is giving up on trying to fix an unscholarly article and will leave the incorrect information be, to reflect the largely uneducated nature of this article.

Language needs to be brought up to a higher academic standard[edit]

Much language used in this article, particularly the last section, conveys a large deal of the opinion of the writer outside of an academic discussion. Someone please clean this up. Ex.: "harsh wild earth"

The article was obviously not written by one whose native tongue is English.

Speaking of: "One should not underestimate the so called, “power of suggestion”, such as the Nazi war propaganda machine." Should probably be reworded or removed. "This should not be taken to indicate that Iblis is weak in his abilities to tempt humans." conveys the same thing without the irrelevant Nazi reference, but I'm not sure if should be there at all. --Hexalm 17:47, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Links commented out[edit]

Who removed those links and why?

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but you can find out by using the "history" tab at the top of the article page. -- Beland 02:59, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

clean up...[edit]

I found this in a comment; I'm deleting that from the article and putting it here where it is less likely to cause confusion and more likely to get a response

The term "Iblis" was most likely borrowed from the Spanish word "diablos" ("devil") by the Moorish invaders of Christian Spain. Doesn't make sense. Iblis was written long before the Moorish conquest, please find a source.


Diablos was Greek in origin. You are correct, this statement is wrongIthinkIwannaLeia (talk) 18:24, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Mythology of Shaitan[edit]

AlShaitan lured Adam and Hawwa' into eating from the tree. For that Allah damned AlShaitan, but delayed punishment until Doomsday. In Islamic view Shaitan was not cursed by God because of luring Adam and Eve but because of refusing to bow down to Adam , see Iblis There are other middle eastern mythologies concerning Shaitan differing from common Islamic view , a famous example is Yezidi sect's beliefs , Yezidi's are believed to predate Islam and are believed to consider Shaitan a name of their deity.I shall verify what I have in memory and add some information about their view of Shaitan .Please help if you have information about Yezidis.Pasha Abd 21:11, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Islam Template[edit]

As I understand things Shaitan is the Islamic equivalent of Satan or the Devil or what have you. Should the {{islam}} template be added? I mean, is this "part of a series of articles about Islam"? -Kode 22:43, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Shayṭān (شيطان) is the equivalent in Islam of Satan in Christianity. The Islamic view of Satan, has both commonalities and differences with Christian and Jewish views.

that needs to be reworded. the article on satan doesn't cite him as the judeo-christian equiv of shaitan.--Missilepenguin! 00:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Contemporary Fiction --

In The Black Stallion Returns by Walter Farley, we learn that the original name of the horse was Shaitan. (This name seems to have been changed to Shetan in The Young Black Stallion and in later editions of the books. But it's just a different spelling of Shaitan, AFAIK.)

Jinn and E.T.???[edit]

"There was no translation for jinn in English language until recently, so it can be now be easily translated as E.T. (the Extra-Terrestrial)." What is this? This is completely unscholarly and subjective. Could this please be removed? There is already a fairly good article on the Jinn/Genies on Wikipedia and information can be borrowed from there.

Non-NPOV lingo[edit]

The line "Why? It could be that humans are higher creation than angels, or Allah desired to expose Iblis, or both of these two reasons. There are some other reasons which are unknown because Allah has the Divine Plan and we humans are not preview to all of Allah's Divine Plan." is a very long way from NPOV, indeed it seems to assume that the existance of God is verifiable fact. This goes for a good deal of this article. It should be re-written in a more scholarly tone. (Yes, I am a grumpy atheist, bah humbug!)Sceptic-all 16:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm also a grumpy atheist, but this is a page on a religious topic. It seems utterly impossible to discuss any subject regarding Islam, Christianity, or Judaism without assuming the existance of God. The point I would agree with you is that there seems to be a large deal of interpretation going on here, and this isn't the place for a sermon. Vvibbert (talk) 02:05, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

pov check[edit]

I think there is some Christian-based bias in the entire introductory paragraph. We don't define Satan in terms of Islam's Shaitan, so why should the opposite be true? I think there should be a way of defining Shaitan for the first paragraph in a way that doesn't do so simply in term's of Christianity's version of the same idea. samrolken 06:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Jinns, genies and humans: to be clarified[edit]

Quote from article:

In Islam, Allah created everything in pairs. The pair for a human is a jinn, two beings of higher intelligence created with free will. In between the pair of jinn and human there could be lots of other creation with higher intelligence like jinn and human. Qu'ran tells that the jinn race was created long, long before the human race. And, for long time humans were nothing, not even mentioned.

This is confusing. Does the first reference to "pair" refer to the human - jinn combination, or does it mean that jinns are themselves a pair? And does "pair" here have anything to do with the customary use in these contexts of referring to male and female. Also, does "humans were nothing" mean they were of little consequence, or that they literally did not yet exist? And "long, long time..." is not accepted Wikipedia usage, no matter how evocative it might be in these religious contexts. I would edit this, but not being sure of the intended meaning, I will wait for some clarification. Myles325a 04:47, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Bad article[edit]

This article definitely needs some help from someone more knowledgeable. Iblis=Satan=The Devil, while Shaitan (as I understand it) can equal both The Devil (Iblis)/a devil (i.e. an evil jinn) or Satan/a satan. I've also heard the word used by Hindus in Indian movies, and I'd like to know more about that. I'm pretty sure it was also used by the pagans in the movie Dragnet (1987 film), of all things! Thus my suspicion is that the word is not limited to Islam. Шизомби (talk) 18:41, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

The article certainly needs work, especially to differentiate between what is actually in the Qur'ān and what is commentary by others. One aspect that needs exploring is the relationship of Iblis to Shaitan. A brief look at the Qur'ān would suggest that there are more than one Shaitan and that Iblis was one of their number. Possibly Iblis has, because of his exalted state as one who was initially greatly favoured and given a place with the Angels, become synonymous with the leader of the Shaitan. This needs to be confirmed with references to a Islamic/Qur'ānic Scholar. From the Qur'ān it appears that the Shaitan were Jinn. Jinn had free will and therefore could choose to obey. Some or all disobeyed and became 'unbelievers' i.e. Shaitans. If there were an example of an obediant Jinn this could help complete this article? I can't find any references to Shaitan that originate outside of Islam or Islammic influence johnmark† 20:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Bandh Darwaza and Purana Mundir were two Indian movies in which the word was used by Hindus. I'm quite sure there's reference to obedient jinn in hadith, I seem to recall one about Muhammad claiming to meet some. I'll have to see if I can turn it up. But perhaps Genie would be the better article for that, here just a mention could be made. Actually, it occurs to me that it would be interesting to look into why in Islam the Devil is a jinn and in Judaism and Christianity, a fallen angel. Was it a tradition adopted from another religion or sect? Шизомби 04:06, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Iblis vs. Shaitan[edit]

What, precisely, is the difference between Iblis and Shaitan? In the Iblis article (as well as in the Shaitan article) it is clearly stated that Iblis (in the former article) and Shaitan (in the latter) are both the Islamic equivalent of the entity known as 'the serpent' — or, Satan. Now, is Iblis synonymous with Shaitan? And if so, why do two separate articles exist? Someone please clarify this matter for me. Grammaticus VII (talk) 15:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that the relation between Iblis and Shaitan is synonymous with the relation between Lucifer and Satan. What I mean is, Iblis was Iblis, then he did something to put him in a bad position with the divine being, and then became Shaitan. Atebo88 (talk) 22:26, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
As a Muslim, this is what the majority Muslim belief is:

Iblis was an exalted one from among the jinnat (plural of jinn). He disobeyed Allah (SWT) and was banished to Earth and allowed to lead humans astray; but he and his followers will beg for mercy on the Day of Judgment but Allah SWT will deliver Iblis and his followers (both the jinnat and humans) to where he promised Iblis before he was expelled: hellfire. Now, Iblis and all the jinnat who follow him (note: there are jinnat that do not follow Iblis) are referred to as shayateen (singular form is shaytan). Humans are sometimes also referred to as "shaytan" but that is as an adjective, similar to calling someone devilish or satanic.


Iblis is the personal name for one particular shaitan. In the language (also mentioned in the article) 'shaitan' is an adjective given to creatures (ins and jin) who are astray. Much like ˤIfrit عفريت is an adjective to those who are resourceful and/or cunning.

When Quran tells the story of the original Shaitan it refers to him as Iblis. this story of course is reminiscent of the Jewish tradition.

In the folk mind the difference is not immediately noticeable, however.

The article does need to be written in a not-in-world tone :)

--Alif (talk) 16:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Someone knowledgeable about this (preferably a Muslim) ought to indicate that "shaitan" is not what the article seems to imply (that is, that "Shaitan" is the name of the Islamic devil), but rather a title (I'm not too sure about this, but from what I've read so far that seems to be the case). TheDestitutionOfOrganizedReligion (talk) 17:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC)