Created. Difficult to remove the copyvio text, as it was added in 2005 and subsequent edits mesh into it - but at least we can keep the non-creative elements of the article as the basis for someone to re-create it. PamD (talk) 23:01, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. I've replaced the original version with your temp page stub. — CactusWriter(talk) 22:37, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://www.queens-theatre.co.uk/biographies/shelaghdelaney.htm. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original orplagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. — CactusWriter(talk) 22:37, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
I do not think a section on Delaney's influence on Morrissey deserves to be longer than the passage on Delaney herself, even assuming it deserves to be included at all. Yes, the article has had to be recreated because of a copyvio, but it remains an issue of undue weight. If the influence is so important, why does the article on Morrisey only feature a passing reference to Delaney, when including the contested passage there would not unbalance that article? Philip Cross (talk) 17:34, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
I really don't think your application of WP:UNDUE is appropriate here. You're discussing importance, which is quite different than the description in WP:UNDUE. That rule applies to things like pseudo-scientific viewpoints (e.g. the "Flat Earth theory") that are given inappropriate attention, and what we're dealing with here has nothing to do with a controvertible opinion. I think the argument you're looking for is Wiki's rules on importance or notability (and obviously, Morrissey's notability is clearly established).Father McKenzie (talk) 20:12, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
My argument was made when the passage on Morrissey was longer than the passage on the article's subject, so I have undermined my original case by working on it! The notability page you cite refers to legitimising the existence of articles, not sections of them, and links to the 'Due and undue weight' section of the NPOV article to explain policy. As that article puts it: "[u]ndue weight applies to more than just viewpoints—also to images, wikilinks, external links, categories, and all other material, as well. An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to its significance to the subject." While you have demonstrated the validity of the reverse, what is the significance of Morrissey to Shelagh Delaney?
The Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trivia sections) argues that 'trivia' sections of miscellaneous material should be avoided. You have not responded to my point that Morrissey's references to Delaney might be best incorporated into his article. Or alternatively the articles on his songs, or the article on The Smiths. No doubt the pop song inspired by A Taste of Honey, covered by a certain Liverpool combo, will be the next thing to be added. We have an article on the song incidentally, which could legitimately and easily worked into the play and film articles. Philip Cross (talk) 21:24, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
First of all, the Beatles' song was a cover of a cover of a cover. A very distant reach back to Delaney herself. Morrissey on the other hand, cited Delaney personally as a tremendous influence, and has incorporated not only A Taste of Honey, but all of her written works into his music (You would undoubtedly agree that adding details about how he was influenced by The Lion In Love is excessive, though I could have). Second of all, this is not remotely a trivia section, I don't know how you could interpret it as that, as it has a single focus, and is not in any way a bulleted list of useless miscellanea. I realize what you are asking, regarding "the significance of Morrissey to Shelagh Delaney," but I'm going to ask you to provide the Wiki rule that requires that a cited relationship in an article to always flow in that direction. Father McKenzie (talk) 18:17, 26 October 2010 (UTC)