Talk:Shenwa language

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Delisted GA[edit]

Article has but a single source listed at the bottom, which is not in the English language, and thusly would be extremely difficult to verify. But anyway, I doubt it would cover everything that anyone has to say about the Chenoua language. Homestarmy 18:39, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Are you under the impression that there exists even a single short article on Chenoua in English? Or that there exists some vast corpus of research on Chenoua? There are a couple of other brief articles on Chenoua on other central Maghreb dialects such as Beni-Menacer and Bissa (all in French), but none approaching the length or detail of Laoust 1912. More to the point, the language of the source is completely irrelevant; if you want to check the information, it's not exactly hard to find French speakers. This article is itself the longest English-language description of Chenoua in existence. - Mustafaa 21:52, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


Ethnologue doesn't include Chenoua in Zenati. Linguasphere (2000) doesn't include Chenoua so it's not much help. Blench doesn't include Chenoua. Indeed, Ethnologue is the only listing I can recall that includes Chenoua. I'll keep watching this page if you have references for the Zenati inclusion. I see in Blench and Ruhlen (1976) a reference to Sheliff Basin and in Linguasphere a reference to Menacer-Metmata. Do you consider these to be the same as Chenoua? You mention in the article that they are sometimes lumped together. Ethnologue's description of Chenoua doesn't cover the Sheliff Basin. (Taivo (talk) 04:43, 11 March 2008 (UTC))

Citation now added to Zenati languages. - Lameen Souag (talk) 01:04, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
We've still got a bit of disconnect that I'm not sure how to resolve. Chenoua is listed in Ethnologue. Sheliff Basin/Menacer-Metmata in Linguasphere/Ruhlen and also in Chaker (as I recall). They are geographically distinct. What do you know about this? --Taivo (talk) 03:00, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, according to Laoust (p. I) "Le dialecte du Chenoua... A vrai dire, c'est plutôt un sous-dialecte des Beni-Menacer et on doit le ranger dans le groupe des dialectes du Moghreb centrale étudiés par M. Basset. Les Ichenouien et les Beni-Menacer se comprennent parfaitement..." (The dialect of Chenoua.... In fact, it is rather a sub-dialect of Beni-Menacer and one must class it in the Central Maghreb dialect group studied by M. Basset. The Ichenouien and the Beni-Menacer understand each other perfectly..." Conversely, but likewise confirming the linguistic unity of Chenoua and Beni-Menacer, Chaker says: "L'ensemble berbérophone dit du "Chenoua" (dans lequel on inclura les "Beni Menacer")" (the Berberophone group called "Chenoua" (in which one includes the "Beni Menacer")) and notes that "cette région partage tous les traits caractéristiques des parlers de l'Algérie centrale (et de la plupart des parlers traditionnellement qualifiés de "zénètes")" (this region shares all the traits characteristic of the dialects of central Algeria (and of most of the varieties traditionally called "Zenati".) The Central Maghreb dialect group consists (consisted?) of three or four geographically separated islands of Berber speech near each other around the Chleff-Tipasa region and in the Ouarsenis Mountains. They seem generally quite similar to one another, but I'm not sure whether they're more similar to one another than to, in particular, Chaoui - or, more to the point, whether anyone's made a statement to that effect. - Lameen Souag (talk) 08:45, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Actually, Basset 1895:1 (BASSET R., Etude sur la Zenatia de l'Ouarsenis et du Maghreb central, Paris, Leroux, 1895) gives a handy summary of the broader Central Maghreb situation: "A`chacha, Bel H'alima, Ouarsenis et Haraoua... leur parenté avec le dialecte des B. Menacer indique jusqu'à où s'étendait le Zenatia avant l'invasion des arabes. Les frontières de son domaine nous sont indiquées par les A`chacha (tribu de la commune mixte de Cassaigne, dans le Dhahra septentrional), les Bel H'alima (à l'est de Mascara, commune mixte de Frenda), les Beth'aia et les B. Bou Khannous (de l'Ouarsenis), les Haraoua de Teniet-el-H'ad qui rejoignent les Aït Ferah' de Kherba et, par là, les B. Menacer. Il y aura lieu d'examiner plus tard si le dialecte parlé par les Matmata du Djendel, voisins des Haraoua, doit être rattaché à cette famille ou à celle des Ouzera, des Zaatit, des B. Bou Yaqoub et des Merachda qui occupent les crêtes de l'Atlas au sud de Blida, et dont le dialecte se rapproche, au contraire, de celui des Zouaouas de la Grande Kabylie." - Lameen Souag (talk) 09:11, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. --Taivo (talk) 10:39, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Etude sur le dialecte berbère du Chenoua (1912)[edit]

Rajmaan (talk) 07:44, 5 August 2014 (UTC)