Talk:Sholem Aleichem

Old talk

Jose Ramos says that accent on Russian name is not necessary. But the very fact that we disagree on the accent position is the evidence to the contrary. To most Russians, it is more natural to put accent on the third syllable (Rabinóvich). It is better to find out the correct accentuation than to remove it. — Monedula 12:03, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Solomon Rabinowitz?

I've found several references to Sholom Aleichem which lists his name as being Solomon Rabinowitz, while this article identifies him as Sholem Yakov Rabinowitz -- which name is accurate? Are both? Kevyn 10:39, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sholom appears to be an alternative spelling of Solomon. Britannica uses the same name as us: "Sholem Yakov Rabinowitz" Bogdan | Talk 09:42, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Yiddish spelling

Under the Sholem Aleykhem entry in the Reader's Encyclopedia of Eastern European Literature (1993), Aleykhem's annual journal is called Di yidishe folksbiblyotek. The form used in the article (Die Yiddishe Folksbibliotek) seems closer to German. I do not know Yiddish; which spelling is considered normal? Or is there no standard orthography? KCargill 04:39, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The bachelor quote

AFAIK, the quote "A bachelor is a man who comes to work each morning from a different direction" refers to the following: it was a customary charity to support young Torah students who were studying far away from home. Usually various families would feed (adopt?) them on a certain day of week. I forgot the name of that practice, will try to recall. (I believe the practice you are referring to is called "essen teg" which is Yiddish for "daily meals".) In the 21st century, the phrase brings frivolous associations. I think it should be either removed or explained. ←Humus sapiens←ну? 08:54, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Presumably explained rather than removed. But wouldn't it have had at least an element of playfulness in its original context, rather than only this innocuous meaning? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:16, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I would definitely expect this from S-A. I'd like to find out where the quote came from. ←Humus sapiens←ну? 09:28, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I think it was called "tayg"' meaning "days". Whynot2000 03:09, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Given SA's sense of humor, I'm sure that some frivolity was implied. Not all the people he was associated with were Torah students, after all. If he meant that, he would have said, "comes to school" rather than "comes to work." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.89.84.86 (talk • contribs) 15 May 2006.

Sholom vs. Sholem

Although this article is titled "Sholom Aleichem", with a single exception in the text and another in an image caption, every time the name appears in the article it is spelled "Sholem Aleichem". For the sake of internal consistency, I am going to change the two alternate occurrences and, for the same reason, feel that the article should be moved to "Sholem Aleichem". The text correctly notes that there is no general agreement about the romanized form of the name, but "Sholem Aleichem" is the most frequently encountered alternative in anglophone academic discourse and is therefore also most appropriate for the Wikipedia. Unless there are any objections, I'll move the article to that heading in a day or two. --Futhark|Talk 08:26, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Another issue is the hyphen. Shouldn't it be used in English ("Sholem-Aleichem") as it is used in Russian and Hebrew? --Mlang.Finn (talk) 14:17, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Language in infobox

The "language" item in the Writer infobox is meant to show the language in which the writer wrote -- Yiddish in this case (see Template:Infobox Writer/doc). Chl (talk) 14:31, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Russian and Hebrew

It states, "At first, Sholem Aleichem wrote in Russian and Hebrew."
Is there anything of consequence first written in either language?
Varlaam (talk) 05:48, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

• Both Russian and Hebrew are languages with long literary traditions while Yiddish was considered an inferior dialect unsuitable for art. Sholem Aleichem's main achievement is proving that Yiddish can be used for first class literary works Alex Bakharev (talk) 09:19, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Of course. That is why the man is famous. But that was not my question.

Can Aleichem be considered a Russian language writer in any meaningful sense?

I think all his important work is in Yiddish.

Did he write a story in Russian, or did he write a shopping list for the grocery store?

Varlaam (talk) 15:22, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

One moment here, he was in the Ukraine where they spoke and speak Ukrainian. Obviously, the 'colonisers' from Petersburg would have mandated a lot in Russian, but the Ukrainian language would not have survived to this day if it had been overpowered by Russian. Ukrainian and Russian are said to be as close to or far away from each other as Dutch and German. Hebrew was not really a living language at the time, I don't think, only used in the synagogues and schools similarly like Latin was used by Catholics. The 'Hebrew' now spoken is Ivrit. Yiddish was the common and every day language of the Jews of the Pale. From where I sit, it has about 75 % words of (old) German origin, with the remainder being Hebrew and Slavic inserts. Just a hint.

And while I am here, the business misfortune that his father suffered (in 1867?) was an almighty stock market crash, I believe. Just saying. Stock markets do what stock markets do in any century it seems. 144.136.192.45 (talk) 05:16, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

שלום־עליכם or שאלעם־אלייכעם

The text on the monument says one thing, the current version of the article and the title page of SA's story collection say another. Futhark, you say that "שלום־עליכם" is how he spelled his own name. Citation, please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.41.111.232 (talk) 18:11, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

In fact, you've mistranscribed the monument, which doesn't use the final form mem. The cover page in the article includes SA's own signature in the traditional Yiddish orthography. Details about the reforms introduced in the Soviet Union are illustrated specifically with SA's name in the article on Yiddish orthography --Futhark|Talk 20:47, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

While I don't have the expertise to make any claims about Yiddish orthography, your statement about the text on the monument is patently incorrect. Take a closer look -- the letter used in both parts of SA's name is definitely a mem sofit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.41.111.232 (talk) 06:18, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Background informaation on Hebrew as written in English: שלים עליכם is a Hebrew expression and this is its Hebrew spelling. Generally, Hebrew words written in Yiddish keep their original Hebrew spellings. Sometimes, though, the rules for Yiddish phonics, are applied, which implement the use of letters in the place of diacritics in Hebrew, and a word is transliterated from Hebrew into Yiddish - thus you have the spelling שאלעם־אלייכעם. In order to make the vowel sound "a" in the word "Shalom" using Yiddish grammar, you would need to add an "א". In Hebrew the "a" sound is represented by either a written or implied "kamatz" mark under the "ש". That being said, both spellings are correct. If you'll pay attention to the second word "Aleichem", you'll see that the two different versions actually begin with a different letter altogether. In Hebrew, the "ע" can be pronounced with any vowel sound depending on the diacritic mark beneath it. In Yiddish, however, in order to make a short "a" sound, you need to use an "א", as the "ע" is used in Yiddish to make the short "e" sound. 98.3.16.228 (talk) 02:07, 8 July 2020 98.3.16.228 (talk) 02:13, 8 July 2020 (UTC)Mordechai Stein מרדכי שטיין

Shalom, not Sholem

I think we need to change the article to Shalom. Sholem is a corruption. Why stop here? Why not Shoilem, Shuilem, or a dozen other possible variations in use? Shalom is the correct one that needs to be changed to. Besides, "Sholem" just sounds lame and stupid --KpoT (talk) 13:58, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Sholem is the pen name he chose for himself. You're welcome to feel that it was lame and stupid but that doesn't change the encyclopedic fact. Futhark|Talk 17:04, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Because in his day Hebrew wasn't yet fully artificially revived for every day use. --KpoT (talk) 22:47, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Your suggested variations would never fit. In Hebrew, the vowel for the first syllable is a "kamatz". It looks like a little "T". Depending on the region, Jews pronounced this vowel sound differently. The most common tranliteration of the the word שלום is "shalom", though technically, "shulom" would be technically more exacting according to Lithuanian and German Ashkenazi accents, which have become the standard in America. Spelling the word "sholem" is intended to be pronounced with the sounds "shuh ləm" which is how the Yiddishized word was pronounced in his region. Chassidic accents from Poland and Hungary spell the word "shulem" (pronounced "shoe ləm") because that is their Yiddishiezed pronunciation. Transilterations cannot be uniform because there of the different accents in which Jews pronounce it from different regions. No offense to your analysis but "shoilem" and "shuilem" are silly because the "kamatz" vowel is not pronounced "oy" in any accent. 98.3.16.228 (talk) 02:33, 8 July 2020 (UTC)Mordechai Stein

Amur State University

The Amur State University appears to now bear his name: Birobidzhan_Jewish_National_University.

Can we add this when confirmed (see external link at that article.)

G. Robert Shiplett 14:38, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Pseudonym?

I notice that this article states that Sholem adopted his pen name for the first time at the ages of both 15 and 24. At what time did he really adopt his pen name? 184.158.28.2 (talk) 15:48, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Arrival in New York 1906

The Ellis Island website shows that he arrived in NY in 1906 together with his wife Olga and son Numa. This can clearly be seen in lines 21 to 23 of the ship (the Saint Louis) manifest. (See link below.) This seems to contradict the implication that he left his family in Geneva.Bkesselman (talk) 10:35, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

References

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Family

It is strangle that there is very little info about Sholem Aleichem's family. Five minutes ago I added infor about his brother, who publishes a memoir about his famouus sibling.

HEre is a piece in RUssian [1] wioth some more extended family of the writer. Its footnote says that Rabinovich family had 12 children (without further detail and refs). Loew Galitz (talk) 05:42, 16 January 2022 (UTC)