Talk:Battle of Singara (344)

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Requested move 28 October 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: 'moved (non-admin closure) JC7V-talk 22:57, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Siege of Singara → Siege of Singara (344) – There were more sieges involving Singara (such as Siege of Singara (360)). - LouisAragon (talk) 23:04, 28 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support. This will prevent confusion between Siege of Singara (344) and Siege of Singara (360).---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 23:08, 28 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom --Constantine ✍ 15:17, 29 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Dimadick (talk) 15:48, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support. T8612 (talk) 18:03, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 21 June 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved (closed by non-admin page mover) DannyS712 (talk) 20:41, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Siege of Singara (344) → Battle of Singara (344) – I have deeply reworded this article and improved its sources and neutralized its tone recently (the article was almost exclusively sourced with outdated 19th century sources and had a pro-Persian biased tone), thus, the cited sources in the article are all referring to a battle fought near Singara between the Sasanian and Roman forces, there is no mention of one of these Empire besieging Singara in 344. ---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 11:00, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support : As nominator and per my above arguments.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 11:02, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Outcome[edit]

@Kansas Bear and LouisAragon: Gentlemen, i was not able to find reliable sources explicitly supporting a Roman victory (the ones provided by IP were not, in my humble opinion, convenient for that), if you have sources that support a Roman victory, then please correct the outcome of the battle. Hope this message will find both of you guys safe and sound. Cheers.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 23:00, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Syvanne and Harrel are reliable sources, however, as I had shown in my re-write of Perso-Roman wars of 337–361(which has now been removed), the battle of Singara was recorded with three different years(Not even the date of this, the biggest confrontation between Constantius and Shapur, is certain, with 343, 344, and 348 all mentioned, Crawford, p55). Barnes gives two battles one in 343, and one in 348.(Barnes,163-164) Even the circumstances of the battles are different:

1.Syvanne states the Romans won at Singara/Alaina(note she uses Alaina, the only historian to do so).(Syvanne, 314-315)
2.Barnes states the 348 battle at Singara, was at night and was a Roman victory.(Barnes, 164)
3.During the night the larger part of the Sasanid army, which had been held back by Shapur as a reserve, emerged unexpectedly from behind the overlooking heights, and routed the Romans.(Crawford, 56)
4.The analysis of the sources from the point of view of the “classical theory of war” elaborated by C. Clausewitz, unambiguously demonstrates that the winning side in this (night) battle were the Persians.(Dmitriev)

FYI, user:LuciusHistoricus, who has removed all the notes concerning the battle of Singara from Perso-Roman wars of 337–361, is most likely user:Refoelp. If you need information concerning this editor's mindset, read this.

Anyway, I feel that all viewpoints should be represented. Considering that some historian say the Romans won, and some say the Sasanids won, it may point us in the direction that there was more than one battle. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:30, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for your detailed answer, gonna self-revert.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 01:51, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, now hang on a bit. Barnes states two battles with two different years. So, we need to sift through the sources a bit more. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:55, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I self-reverted to better represent both views. The problem is that i don't have access to any of the sources mentioned by you.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 02:06, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, ok. Well, I will see what I can do. I restored the information(notes) on the article Perso-Roman wars of 337–361, concerning the battle of Singara. Removed the over detailed information about the battle at Singara, since the article is about the war as a whole between Constantius and Shapur. --Kansas Bear (talk) 02:17, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]