|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Simón Bolívar article.|
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- 1 Images
- 2 Sentence I removed, but could be put back in, with revision
- 3 strange technical problem with article
- 4 coat of arms
- 5 ...
- 6 More
- 7 Freemason
- 8 Venezuelan Ship
- 9 Wikiproject Venezuela
- 10 Sources for Chavez saying Bolivar was zambo
- 11 Now Chavez says Bolivar was assassinated
- 12 Venezuelan Second Republic
- 13 Manuela Sáenz
- 14 ¿?
- 15 Unlikely exile
- 16 Cultural depictions of Simón Bólivar
- 17 diacritic marks
- 18 Early life
- 19 Torch of Liberty?
- 20 The section about Marx
- 21 What's going on here?
- 22 Political legacy
- 23 Claims Against Bolivar Section
- 24 Original research regarding Bolivar's sexual orientation
- 25 living Bolivar's descedants in Venezuela
- 26 Bolívar and Chavez
- 27 Bolivar ancestry
- 28 This article is short on facts and long on hagiography
- 29 First paragraph rewrite needed for grammar
- 30 What the hell that this mean?
- 31 Pronunciation of Name among English-speakers
- 32 Last words ?
- 33 FYI
- 34 Panama
- 35 Motivation?
- 36 Political and military career
- 37 Pronunciation
- 38 Statue in Tehran
- 39 Circumstances of his parents?
- 40 Yeiter
- 41 President of Venezuela?
- 42 Did Bolívar have any children?
- 43 Death by poison
- 44 Please change image caption
- 45 "In fact, George Washington and Bolívar shared the same objective: independence for their people and the establishment of democratic states."
- 46 Copyright issue?
Some of the images in wikimedia commons used in Spanish version of article but still not used in English version:
Cúcuta - Av. Libertadores.JPG
Sentence I removed, but could be put back in, with revision
The Family History section contained a confusing and unhelpful sentence. Here it is, in italics:
- The most important of these estates was a sugar plantation with an encomienda that provided the labor needed to run the estate. In later centuries, slave and free black labor would have replaced most of the encomienda labor. Another portion of Bolívar wealth came from the silver, gold, and more importantly, copper mines in Venezuela.
Is this supposed to mean "In later centuries, slave and free black labor replaced most of the encomienda labor."? Or is it just a strange side observation describing how the estate would have been operated... if it had established hundreds of years later? Regardless, I removed it. If some knows that the native american labor actually was replaced with black labor, please add this sentence back in, revised as necessary.
strange technical problem with article
Hi. I'm just wanted to mention that there's something weird going on with the way that this article is being rendered with my browser (Firefox 22.214.171.124 on a PC). Specifically, the section-editing links are getting bunched up and showing up in strange places, moving around as I resize the page. I think it may have something to do with the infoboxes on the right side. - Skaraoke 21:28, 31 May 2007 (UTC
coat of arms
he is mentioned specifically for having a very rare colour in his coat of arms on the tincture (heraldry) page; a picture of his coat of arms should be included here. Saccerzd 21:45, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Bolivar is a surname andalusian, probably derived from olivar (olive forest)¿"Bó olivar" = "good olive forest"?. There is no surname 'bolivar' in the Basque Country, although there is a small village of that name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 23:01, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
This article needs to be fleshed out. Personalities and events are not explained.
Random notes on Simón Bolívar:
His name is pronounced much like the English word believer, with the accent on the second syllable.
Bolívar's idea to unify all of South America was also called La República de Gran Colombia, which it was briefly called after many territories were combined in 1819.
I'm curious...what's the source that states that, in most recent research, AIDS would be Bolivar's cause of death? Does anyone know more about this? I've read that it's been long speculated that he may have died due to any of a number of sexually transmitted diseases, due to his womanizing habits, but speculation isn't research.... Juancarlos2004 20:05, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- He was a member of one of those groups at one point, that's for sure, but I've never read anything that directly suggests that the second part could be true. Doesn't really seem likely that he ever took "freemasonry" seriously, but rather as a status symbol, like many others at the time...as in fact Bolivar eventually ended up making such freemason/mason groups illegal and directly siding with the Church at one point.Juancarlos2004 04:23, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
That comment at the end about Hugo Chavez is really tacked on; it seemed like an afterthought. It would be better to say that many in South America have used the iconic image of Bolivar in a political manner, without regard for Bolivar's personal views on their particular idealogy-because many have done this, and it's not just Chavez. Really the Hugo Chavez jab was random, and ruined an otherwise good article.
- A lot of people would like to inflict violence on you for making a mind-numbingly inept proposition that Bolivar died from a virus that was not yet discovered (or invented by scientists, depending on your belief).
There is no WP entry I could find, and no reference in the article, to the Venezuelan sail training ship Simon Bolivar, commissioned in 1980 and still active. This is one of the "tall ships" and I think it should be mentioned, but I don't know enough to write an article on it and I'm not sure where to place a mention in the article. Suggestions? KillerChihuahua 01:28, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm looking forward to found the Wikipedia:WikiProject Venezuela. I had the idea of creating it when I first made the portal. The project will have the main objective of centrating efforts into a more complete information and a higher quality of the articles in Wikipedia, other media in the sister projects, and the portal itself.
However, the rules say that I should have at least five to ten members willing to integrate and contribute to the wikiproject. So if some of you guys want to join in, then leave me a message, or in this page. I will be back in a few days to see how things are going on.
Go to Wikipedia:Wikiproject/List_of_proposed_projects#Venezuela and list yourselves if you wanna join. --Alex Coiro 06:41, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Sources for Chavez saying Bolivar was zambo
He has said this several times. Last time he said it was during his "Alo Presidente No. 248" telecast on Sunday March 4th. I do not know how to list that as a source. I do not know if a source is the telecast itself or if it has to be someone talking about the telecast. If the latter then a source would be any newspaper in Venezuela that reported on his televised address; one such source then would be "El Nacional newspaper, page 2. March 5 2006.El Nacional newspaper, page 2. March 5 2006." If you google "Bolivar era zambo" anyone will find other instances of Chavez saying similar things in the past -already in 2003. You may have to go to a cached page like this one:  which transcribes an old speech of him. If anyone wants to know what it is he said exactly this past Sunday, leave a note here and I will transcribe from the newspaper. By the way, as to Chavez sources for his own theory, I believe nobody knows where he gets his knowledge from. Most likely he makes it up. Anagnorisis 22:19, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
By the way, there are no sources for any of the things said in the article, so why when I add something it is removed pending me providing sources? Why not then remove everything until each single piece of information is sourced. Double standards are not nice. Anagnorisis 22:22, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- Unfortunately a cached link is not a very good source. I cannot read spanish so I cannot make out the original source of the cache. If you can find a link, preferably to a newspaper article or transcript of his speech, I will be happy to replace the information and add the reference. Or, if the cached link is to a newspaper, let me know the paper name, issue number, and author and I will use that. Or, if it is a transcript can you possibly give a little more information about the source?
- Most of the information is sourced from the two links under "External links", however new additions which do not come from these sources need to be sourced also.
- Please let me know if you have any questions and I will try to answer them! Thanks - KillerChihuahua?!? 23:06, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- That one above was just one example. Googling would give more. No, I cannot find a link. However I do not believe that there is a requisite that sources can only come from websites. So, as said above a source is the newspaper. One such source being: El Nacional newspaper, Caracas, Venezuela. page 2. March 5 2006 edition. By the way, please point me in the direction of the policy that says that ALL "new" information that does not come from sources already mentioned in an article need to be specifically sourced. Thanks. Anagnorisis 00:03, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
- Beautiful, I will add that. That is perfect. The policy can be found at WP:V#The_policy. KillerChihuahua?!? 00:06, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I have read that Bolivar was indeed not white although his many portraits depict him as such.
"Bajo de cuerpo; un metro con sesenta y siete centímetros. Hombros angostos, piernas y brazos delgados. Rostro feo, largo y moreno. Cejas espesas y ojos negros, románticos en la meditación y vivaces en la acción. Pelo negro también, cortado casi al rape, con crespos menudos. Las patillas y los bigotes se los cortó en 1.825. El labio inferior protuberante y desdeñoso. Larga la nariz que cuelga de una frente alta y angosta, casi sin formar ángulo. El General es todo menudo y nervioso. Tiene la voz delgada pero vibrante. Y se mueve de un lado a otro, con la cabeza siempre alzada y alertas las grandes orejas." ... "El General es decididamente feo y detesta los españoles"... (Descripción atribuida a Páez, "El General" 1.829, Santiago Martínez Delgado)
Now Chavez says Bolivar was assassinated
I think this is a matter of Chavez appropriating Bolivar, an attempt to make him a property of his own "revolution." Chavez apparently intends to put considerable resources toward finding (or creating) evidence for his thesis.
Chavez thinks the moon landing was fake, 9/11 was done by Bush, and Gaddafi was as swell guy. He says a lot of ridiculous stuff. 02:20, 27 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phi O'Byrne (talk • contribs)
- Added something about her saving SB from an assassination attempt. She was only mentioned in the bio as a "see also".JRSP 21:43, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Desde cuándo Simón Bolívar fue presidente del perú?--188.8.131.52 08:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Sí.184.108.40.206 13:09, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Some comedy show I recently watched (probably The Daily Show) made an interesting (and probably true) point:
"Simón Bolívar is the only person in history to be exiled from a country named after him."
That's probably why he uttered "I have plowed the sea" on his deathbed.
I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 16:58, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- In that case, it should be Simón Bolívar.
220.127.116.11 23:21, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
This article could use something on Bolivar's early years--it almost feels like part has been cut out. Nareek 20:49, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Torch of Liberty?
what's the torch of liberty?! seriously! it's in trivia, and I don't know what it's talking about! Can anyone please explain what the page is talking about when it uses the term "torch of liberty". 18.104.22.168 06:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)brad
The section about Marx
That section reads like someone's school essay trying to prove Marx wrong, which is pretty much the definition of original research. I don't really see how having it improves the article about Bolivar; the whole section is more about proving Marx wrong than telling about Bolivar. That aside, it needs work- it is still written in a "point-counterpoint" manner which is inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. I've flagged it as OR, but an anonymous IP keeps removing the flag.
I would suggest either removing the section, or give it a serious rewrite so that it's not trying to prove something. --DarthBinky 00:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
What's going on here?
- In 1813, after acquiring a military command in New Granada under the direction of the Congress of Tunja, he led the invasion of Venezuela on May 14. This was the beginning of the famous Campaña Admirable, the Admirable Campaign. He entered Mérida on May 23, where he was proclaimed as El Libertador (the liberator from the Spanish army), following the occupation of Trujillo on June 9. Six days later, on June 15, he dictated his famous Decree of War to the Death (Decreto de Guerra a Muerte).
So wait, did he start out on the side of the Spanish and then show his true colors? On the one hand he's "the liberator from the Spanish army", on the other nothing explicitly says he was ever on the side of the Spanish... Morgan Wick 09:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
- Nope. I suppose that's just a slightly ambiguous way to say that Bolivar freed the people of Mérida from Spanish rule, and that's why he was named "The Liberator". Juancarlos2004 18:22, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
This article is in need of a cleanup. Scottica 01:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Someone appears to have pasted a section from his freshman paper onto this article and called it an encyclopedia contribution. It's inappropriate through and through, a candidate for deletion. Objections?22.214.171.124 20:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Claims Against Bolivar Section
Latin American revolutionaries have been suspected of being closeted homosexuals 
Hugo Chavez Frias is also an autocrat with possible homosexual leanings. 
This is particularly ironic, as the Latino "strongman" is such an iconic image of masculine power. 
Citations needed. These look like sad attempts at vandalism against certain Latin American leaders due to political issues. 126.96.36.199 00:23, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Original research regarding Bolivar's sexual orientation
User:188.8.131.52: You put up text arguing that Bolívar was homosexual, based on historical evidence and inference, not secondary sources. I removed it. You restored it, saying "This is solid research, backed with citations...therefore, it should stay." Solid or not, it is, in fact, ORIGINAL RESEARCH, which is not appropriate in this encycolpedia. See Wikipedia:No_original_research. As for the citations, there is just one, to another Wikipedia article, which does not address the argument you make. Llajwa 00:54, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
- Thank you, not to mention it's written terribly. I also noticed our friend has a bit of a thing for noting homosexuality amongst political figures. Makes ya wonder... --Endless Dan 20:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
living Bolivar's descedants in Venezuela
There are several people in current Venezuela who are direct descendants of Simon Bolivar through his siblings. A couple days, I read about Eduardo Mendoza Goiticoa who is one of the Bolivar's descendant, added some key information on Eduardo Mendoza's grandson. The information was erased. would like to know why and this was an extensive and careful research before submitting any changes to it. It was erased in both pages: Simon Bolivar and also Leopoldo Lopez. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nbay3 (talk • contribs) 04:19, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Bolívar and Chavez
Somebody is trying to add some wordy exposition to the Bolívar article, stating Bolívar's influence on the Venezuela president. As this makes up 30 percent of the complete Bolívar article I think it is stating more about Chavez than about Bolívar, which means these details - if at all - should be added to the Chavez article and not here in this place. If at all, a few lines would be more than enough in the Bolívar article. If we started to explain Bolívar's influence on important American politicians, the article would be ten times as long as it is. -- Meister (talk) 15:53, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
- I think it would be appropriate to add a few sentences (maybe 2-3) about Bolivarianism to the "political legacy" section. Its absence seems like a glaring omission.Youngea (talk) 13:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
- Holy smokes. The bit about Chavez appropriating (or should I say, expropriating?) Bolivar's image reads on like a puff piece written by a Chavez propaganda outlet. Bolivar was a great man, who liberated millions. Chavez is a tinpot dictator who will be done and dusted in about 10 years and then forgotten by history. To even mention them in the same breath does a great disservice to Bolivar's memory. It would be more appropriate if Chavez had appropriated the image of President Alphonse Simms in Moon over Parador or Woody Allen's character in Bananas. Except that it's more sad than funny, really.Ndriley97 (talk) 22:58, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Back to an Encyclopedic article
Hello people. Nowhere, ANYWHERE, in this entry should there be mention of Chavez anymore than their should be mention of any Latin American politican claiming the mantle of Bolivar. The list would be never-ending.
Second, the "Claims Against Bolivar" section is worthless and irrelevant: How does an opinion by ONE author in 2007 merit inclusion in here... Me suspects said author is looking to enter himself into WIkipedia. There are literally THOUSANDS of books on Bolivar that claim countless things and opinions on him.
If you have a particularly new, original, or even bizarre claim (whether having to do with Bolivar's favorite tobacco, underwear preference, or vegetarianism) MOVE IT TO THE DISCUSSION SECTION.
Nord1, a newbie, has been edit warring to include a section titled "Bolivar's Disputed African Ancestry" and has been reverted by three editors thus far. I am one of them, as his references were not even close to acceptable at the time, and the section had no support and some resistance already, indicating a need for discussion prior to making such a fundamental change to the article. Since then, Nord1 has provided (buried in his or her extensive edits) what appears to be a very reliable source which thoroughly supports the issue and provides a good bit of commentary. I suggest editors of this article read page 259 of Africana: The Encyclopedia of the African and African American Experience. IMO a section is indicated, and input is welcomed on how best to present this information. KillerChihuahua?!? 17:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
- I agree to desist from reverting any further as well, and granted may be my entry is too long, but please haven't I provided proof enough that this controversy merits mentioning in the article! I mean the encyclopedia Africana (a thoroughly unmarginal source) says the claims of African ancestry are oft-mentioned and worthy of analysis. Please please read the entire entry and the sources given.Nord1 (talk) 22:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, someone seems to be ignoring this and has reverted again, and added to, the section. We can protect the article while this content is discussed, or we can try discussing details of the added section and improving it. Which would everyone prefer, or are there other suggestions? KillerChihuahua?!? 23:47, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
- If there is to be an entire section on this claim then it would only be fair to add a section on Bolivar and the many bizarre theories that he was a homosexual as well as the claim that he fathered several bastard children ad well as the claim that he died of AIDS as well as the claim (now put forward by Hugo Chavez) that he was assassinated by the imperialist Yankees. It would only be fair. ALL of these claims, as outlandish, quasi-historical, and referenced as they are would merit inclusion.
- Why not just leave a nice article to allow people to learn more about this man than weighting the article to favor one or another bizarre claim and its adherents. The biographies of Bolivar are in the hundreds. The number of actual trained historians with an ublemished track record: Mijares, Masur, Salcedo-Bastardo, Ludwig--never claimed any of these bizarre theories. Imagine for one instant that every imaginable theory about John F. Kennedy was included in the article: it would make established and undisputed historical elements trivial by giving equal weight and space to those who can come up with a written reference. If you wish to create a NEW entry with your bizarre claim (or your view that Chavez is the second coming of Bolivar) then do so in a SEPARATE article. Or, let's be fair and put every Tom, Dick, and Harry's theory (whether by a fiction writer like Gabriel Garcia Marquez or by an unknown op-ed writer in some dinky local newspaper in Uruguay). Verdadseadicha (talk) 21:07, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
This article is short on facts and long on hagiography
This article, I'm sorry to say, is terrible. It reads like it was written by a committee of anti-Castro, anti-Chavez racist exiles. It is encumbered by elitest hang-ups and insecurities that reveal themselves in the writers' obsessions with Bolivar's supposed aristocratic pedigree and blood purity. These concepts and notions are not only distracting and in poor taste, they also do little to make clear the historical and political importance of this individual in Latin American and world history. I repeat this article stinks of rancid criollismo, it needs to be scrubbed clean of this and allowed to present this individual as a human being, not as a central figure in the pantheon of racist Hispanism and creole feudalism.
P.S. Is it any wonder this article, despite the clear importance of the subject, has never been a featured article, the chances of this article receiving a bronze star are nil and will remain so until it has been completely rewritten in encyclopedic fashion. I consider it an embarrassment that an article on a Latin American figure of much less importance, i.e. Mario Vargas Llosa, has been given featured article status, while this article on the Libertador of half a CONTINENT languishes in what can only be described as a victimic condition of historical amateurism/parochialism. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
First paragraph rewrite needed for grammar
"Simón Bolívar (July 24, 1783 – December 17, 1830), was one of the most important leaders of Spanish America's successful struggle for independence from Spain along with José de San Martín, collectively known as Bolívar's War."
This reads that Bolivar and San Martin were collectively known as Bolivar's War.
This statement is unbelievable for billion of persons along history:
- "Despite his use of explicit genocidal terror tactics..."
What the hell that this mean?
The following sentence doesn't mean anything: "After the death of Bolivar in 1830 and the later dissolution of the Gran Colombia in 1831, Bolivar's legacy contributed decisively to the independence of present-day Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Panamá, Perú and Venezuela." I changed it with: "His legacy contributed decisively to the independence of present-day Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Panamá, Perú and Venezuela."
Pronunciation of Name among English-speakers
I learned to pronounce Bolivar's name with the accent on the 1st syllable, (both given name and surname) and that is how I would use it if necessary in discussion. Obviously Bolivar is a historical figure who was important enough that people spoke about him in languages other than Spanish, and put up statues of him in cities outside Latin America. The inclusion of the accent, from the original Spanish, indicates that the accent is to be on the second syllable in correct Spanish. How is the name spoken customarily among English speakers in cities that have parks and streets named for him? If the pronunciation remains as I learned it in elementary school 40 years ago, should this be included in the article?Corlyon (talk) 20:21, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Last words ?
The most recent edit (at the time of writing) was the addition of a sentence purporting to be Bolivar's last words - according to the edit summary "How will i ever get out of this labyrinth?" which is noted in the book Looking For Alaska." However, the quote in "Looking for Alaska" is actually made by one of the characters, from her favorite book "The General in His Labyrinth". Since that book is a fictionalised account of his last days, can this quote actually be regarded as verifiable ? CultureDrone (talk) 12:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
If people who watch this page are also interested in how Wikipedia is governed, be sure to check out this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Advisory_Council_on_Project_Development . Slrubenstein | Talk 13:45, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
The article lists five countries liberated by Bolivar: Bolivia, Ecuador, Peru, Columbia, and Venezuela. What about Panama? Ok, sure, it was just a province of Columbia at the time, and then for awhile afterwards, but it is an independant country today that was Spanish territory before Bolivar and independant of the Spanish, if not the Columbians, afterwards? Would anyone object to my adding it? Chrisrus (talk) 01:59, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- The Spanish or the Spaniards? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 23:40, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Political and military career
This article needs a summary of his career, which seems to have been totally removed, probably to revert vandalism. I have restore the previous Liberator section but it could probably do with some condensing.--Jack Upland (talk) 21:09, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Assuming the pronunciation given in the article is intended to represent the Spanish pronunciation, what is the reason for (a) omitting any indication of the tonic accent; (b) making the final 'r' of 'Bolívar' silent? Sdoerr (talk) 20:45, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Statue in Tehran
Circumstances of his parents?
The sentence of the article that says "The circumstances of Bolívar's parents forced them to entrust the baby Simón Bolívar to the care of Doña Ines Manceba de Miyares and the family's slave la negra Hipolita." is rather jarring since the previous paragraphs emphasize how wealthy the family was. What were these circumstances? Would "commitments" be a better choice of words than "circumstances"?
In other languages of wikipedia and other websites it has ponte y blanco not ponte y yeiter for his full name. I can't find yeiter anywhere beside this article. I'm thinking this should be changed from yeiter to blanoc, or could someone add a reference for yeiter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 10:31, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
President of Venezuela?
He's linked to the President of Venezuela article, and listed there. But none of the references there support this. There are no references (that I can see) at President of Bolivia or President of Peru either. Any truth to these labels? InedibleHulk (talk) 16:30, March 7, 2013 (UTC)
Did Bolívar have any children?
The article says at one point that he had no children, but later it reads " including descendants of Bolivar".
One of these two must be wrong. But which?
- "Descendant" doesn't always mean a direct descendant, though that probably is how most people read it. A direct descendant is a daughter or grandson. Your nephews and grandnieces are your indirect descendants. I suppose it would make sense to specify "indirect descendant" here. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:28, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
Death by poison
Hi, in recent news Simon Bolivar may die by arcenic, please read: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-04/uomm-hmc042810.php no he did not die by poison it was tuberculosis i did a dee p research — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dianidizzy2 (talk • contribs) 14:44, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
A caption in the Early Life section needs to be changed. It now says "Bolívar by José Gil de Castro in 1825." which should be changed to something like "Miniature of Bolívar, c. 1800". Gil de Castro would have been 15 years old when he painted this miniature if the current caption is correct, which is unlikely. Miniatures on ivory in those days were like Polaroid photos for the rich—they were painted from life and put in a locket, not painted 25 years after the fact as the current caption appears to indicate. Also, the supporting image file says nothing about Gil de Castro; in fact, it says the miniature painter is anonymous. Thanks. --22.214.171.124 (talk) 22:49, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
- Not sure what the truth is, but the file info does contradict the caption. Even if wrong, they now match. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:51, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
What reliable source says this and where? Obviously we could also claim they both shared the same religious beliefs - if they were both Christians; or that they both shared similar military backgrounds - if they were both military commanders; or that they both saw the sky to be blue - if they ,,, etc etc etc. I have tagged these accordingly, per WP:SYN. Mercy11 (talk) 14:51, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
At least one section appears to be lifted wholesale from http://observer.gm/africa/gambia/article/big-read-simon-bolivar-south-amer-ican-independence-leader — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 23:07, 25 March 2014 (UTC)