Talk:Sinmara

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Former good article nominee Sinmara was a Philosophy and religion good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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December 19, 2008 Good article nominee Not listed
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The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that in Norse mythology, Sinmara is a female companion of Surtr, a fire jötunn?
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Bells[edit]

Doesn't exactly ring any bells. Source? - Haukurth 23:47, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

Material[edit]

Bugge in Falk[edit]

Bugge is quoted in a footnote by Falk in Arkiv för nordisk filologi 10, p. 63, where he proposes some theories about Sinmara. I am unsure of where Falk has this quote from.

2) Til denne udvikling knytter Bugge fölgende bemerkning: "Sammenstillingen af Fjölsv. 30 med Verg. Æn. VI, 136 ff. synes mig fortræffelig. Jeg vil söge at udnytte den videre. Sinmara svarer til Vergils Proserpina. Navnets efterled -mara 'mare' passer jo godt som betegnelse for en natlig, dræbende kvindelig dæmon. Men hvorledes skal Sin- forklares? Sin- kan ikke, som Egilsson mener være = ags. sin- i sin-grêne, ti dette heder i oldn. sí-. Sin "sene" syne efter sin betydning ikke at passe som led af Sinmara. Navnet er for ungt til, at sin- skulde kunne forklares som "gammel" og sammenstilles med got. sinista. I v. 24 har de fleste haandskrifter sinn. Jeg formoder at Sinnmara er den rette form, og at dette navn er en oversættelse af Proserpina, som man afledede af proserpere. Hertil skal svare förste led i Sinnmara af sinn "gang"; jvf. sinna með úlfs lifru (med Hel) SnE. I, 436, 2."

Roughly translated as:

To this development Bugge notes the following: "The comparison between Fjölsvinnsmál 30 with Vergil's Æneid VI, 136 ff. is to me excellent. I will try to develop this further. Sinmara equates to Vergil's Proserpina. The suffix -mara "mare" fits well as a description of a nightly, killing female demon. But how should Sin- be explained? Sin- cannot, as Egilsson claims, be cognate to Anglo-Saxon sin- in sin-grêne, [ti] this is called - in Old Norse. Sin "sinew" does not seem to fit as an element of Sinmara. The name is too young for sin- to be explained as "old" and be cognate with Gothic sinista. In stanza 24 most of the manuscripts have sinn. I propose that Sinnmara is the correct form, and that this name is a translation of Proserpina, which derives fro proserpere. Hereto the first element of Sinmara should be sinn "gang"(?); cf. sinna með úlfs lifru (med Hel) Snorri Edda I, 436, 2."

Stanza 24[edit]

Line 6 of stanza 24 in Fjölsvinnsmál differs in the manuscripts and interpretations, which creates trouble in the English translations, as some versions have some form of Sinmara in them, while others do not. Just to give an impression:

Rask (1818), p. 109:
25. Viþofnir hann heitir,
enn hann stendr veþr-glasi
á meiþs kvistum Míma:
einom ecka þrúngr
hann óróf saman
Surtr sinn mavtu
Munch (1847), p. 172:
24. "Viðofnir hann heitir,
en hann stendr veðglasi
á meiðs kvistum Mima;
einum ekka þryngr
hann oróf saman
Surtr sin mötu."
Bugge (1867), p. 347:
24. "Viðofnir hann heitir,
en hann stendr veðrglasi
á meiðs kvistum Míma;
einn um ekka
þryngr hann orófsaman
svartrar Sinmöru."
Grundtvig (1868), p. 183:
24. "Viðofnir hann heitir,
en hann stendr veðrglasi
á meiðs kvistum Míma:
einum ekka
þryngr hann örófsaman
Surt ok Sinmöru."
Jónsson (1932), p. 177:
Fj. kv. 24. Víðópnir hęitir,
ęn hann stęndr veðrglasir
á męiðs kvistum Mima;
ęinum ękka
þryngr ørófsaman
Surtr Sinmǫro.

Bugge's notes to line 6:

— 6. svartrar, så ændret med Tvil (eller surtrar af isl. surtr, gusten?); surtar Cα Lβ O Stockh. Folk. Og Oct. Hskr. og Eddubrot Rasks; surtr B Cβ Lα, og således Udgg. (Rask og M. som Egennavn); Surtur Stockh. Qv. Hskr. — Sinmöru, så ændret efter Formodning i K.; sinn mavtv Bα Stockh. Oct. Hskr., så også K. og Rask; sinn mantu Bβ Cα Lβ O Eddubrot Rasks; sem mautu Lα Stockh. Folk. og Qv. Hskr.; sem mantu Bβ; sin möta M. — Thaasens Forklaring i Nord. Univ. Tskr. II, 3, S. 89 f. kan ikke støtte Hskrr.'s Tekst. [Explanation of abbreviations]

Rask's notes to line 6:

4) Surtar sem St. Surtar sinn F. Surtur sem G. Surtar sinn mantu Eddubr. [Explanation of abbreviations]

Grundtvig's notes to line 6:

— Surt ok B, surtr, surtur, surtar hdskrr.
— Sinmöru K, sinn mavtv, sinn mantu, sem mautu, sem mantu hdskrr.

Perpetual-incubus[edit]

Zavaroni and Emilia's original text, from the footnote on page 72:

We would suggest that the first word sin- is the same we find in run. Dan. Sinwara (PN: de Vries 1962 s.v.), OHG. sin-vluot 'grosse Flut', OE. sin-niht(e), OSx. sin-nahti 'ewige Nacht', Goth. sin-teins 'täglich'. Hence, sin- equates ON. si- (si-fella 'ununterbrochene Reihe', si-valr 'ganz rund' etc.). This meaning seems to be confirmed by the adjective örófsaman 'immeasurable'.

I translated the German translations myself, they are pretty uncontroversial. I didn't add the last part about the ON. si-, as I wasn't sure of the relevance and how to present it, but if anyone would like to, please do. –Holt (TC) 10:38, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Article improvement[edit]

There are two more stanzas that mention Sinmara in Fjölsvinnsmál; stanza 28 with the kenning "eiri aurglasis", and stanza 29 with "fölva gýgr". Both should be added. An obvious addition would be to comment on stanza 24 and its difficulties. Bugge emended line 6, a change that has been accepted by most other scholars, from what I can tell. Bugge otherwise equates Sinmara to Proserpina (what a surprise!), something Hjalmar Falk seems to like the sound of, as he theorizes further on this and quotes Bugge. –Holt (TC) 03:16, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Uncited Puzzles[edit]

The article says "Hel is blue or half blue and half light, like the Roman goddess Proserpina" but no source on Wikipedia or elsewhere seems to support that Proserpina/Persephone has these two colors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.117.217.242 (talk) 14:47, 15 August 2012 (UTC)