Talk:Socratic dialogue

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search


A Good Reference[edit]

I think there are some pretty good information and examples of Socratic dialogues in the Book History of Western Philosophy (Russell). Especially in those Chapters about Socrates and Plato.

--Arash Eb (talk) 00:11, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Examples of Socratic Dialogues[edit]

Is there any guideline on which examples are linked? Socratic dialogues such as Charmides that are listed under Plato's dialogues aren't linked here. 67.176.177.166 20:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


Previous Discussion[edit]

More familiar as "Socratic dialogue" which might be a less pretentious title in the English-language Wikipedia. Wetman 07:30, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I agree: this looks ridiculous. --Jpbrenna 19:46, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Voting[edit]

  • Support Socratic dialogue is almost never referred to as Sokratikoi logoi in English (in fact, I have never seen this usage before). In Modern Greek, it is referred to in the singular; a Greek Google produces zero hits for the plural. Googling in English shows a large tilt toward the singular as well. --Jpbrenna 20:39, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Support The place for the Greek is in parentheses after the bolded name (Sokratikoi logoi). If there are shades of meaning in the original that are not well rendered in the familiar English of the title, that's always worth exploring. Many Wikipedia articles have a similar contour. --Wetman 22:02, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. Gene Nygaard 09:20, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Move is done! Talrias (t | e | c) 10:53, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Sokratikoi logoi[edit]

In antiquity, the genre is always refered to in the plural (Sokratikoi logoi Socratic conversations/speeches). Aristotle's Poetics would be the locus classicus.

In English language classical and philosophical scholarship, Sokratikoi logoi is overtaking Socratic dialogue in technical genre discussions. I think it's to distinguish the ancient genre from looser applications of the term.

Similarly, "valediction" has been entirely replaced by "propemptikon" in the discussion of good-bye poems.

Whether Modern or Ancient Greek usage should be given would be a matter of dispute for Modern Greeks, but I don't think it would be for anyone else.

Modern dialogues[edit]

Should modern examples, like the one linked from the article on Bartemius Crouch, be mentioned? Or is that something different altogether? 129.7.254.33 00:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Platonic Dialogues[edit]

Are Platonic and Socratic dialogues the same? If they are, there ought to be a redirect from Platonic dialogue to here, and if not then there should be some sort of distinction made within this article. 84.13.228.15 01:21, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the article more or less covers the distinction between the two - Platonic dialogues are Socratic dialogues, but Socratic dialogues are not always Platonic dialogues. If you think it should be made clearer in the article, you could change it. Anarchia 04:01, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
The article doesn't even mention Platonic dialogues much less cover a distinction between the two. And I would change it if I knew the answer - but I don't, and that's the reason I came to this article in the first place. The page has failed in exactly what you claim it doesn't. 89.243.21.74 16:43, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry - it is easier to see things if you know what you are looking for.
"Socratic dialogue (Greek Σωκρατικός λόγος or Σωκρατικός διάλογος) is a genre of prose literary works developed in Greece at the turn of the fourth century BCE, preserved today in the dialogues of Plato and the Socratic works of Xenophon....Plato and Xenophon, Antisthenes, Aeschines of Sphettos, Phaedo, Eucleides of Megara, Theocritus, Tissaphernes and Aristotle all wrote Socratic dialogues"
This says that there are Socratic dialogues written by Plato and Xenophon, among others.
"Generally, the works of Plato's early years are all considered to be Socratic dialogues, but many of the later ones are often included as well."
This says, by implication, that not all of Plato's works are Soctraic dialogues.
Hope this helps. I am not a classical scholar, and I have more things on my to do list than I can cope with. BUt, I will add tidying this to the Philosophy project to do list.Anarchia 22:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 14:49, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Ambiguity regarding subject of article[edit]

The article introduction and overall tenor says that a Socratic dialogue is a particular genre involving Socrates or someone like him leading a philosophic discussion. Socratic dialogue is also a term used by Platonic scholars who see a movement away from Socrates by Plato: in this view, Plato's "early" dialogue are Socratic, but not the later ones. This definition is also included within the article. In the first definition, the Laws is a Socratic dialogue; in the second, it is not. The article should probably be clearer about this double use, instead of treating both as part of the same phenomenon. Thoughts? RJC Talk Contribs 17:31, 6 August 2008 (UTC) I just have a question? why is "socratic" capitalized -- It's not a proper, name so why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shawnkielty (talkcontribs) 07:08, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Alexamenus[edit]

The entry currently claims that Alexamenus wrote Socratic dialogues. This is probably false. He wrote dialogues, and was an early writer of dialogues. But his dialogues were almost certainly not Socratic dialogues

We only know of Alexamenus from his having been mentioned by Aristotle in a lost work "Concerning Poets" (fr. 72). This treatise is then referred to in two extant sources, sc. Diogenes Laertius (3.48) and Athenaeus (11.112 and Ep. 2,2 69).

The quote from DL says that he wrote dialogues, but not Socratic dialogues. The quote from Athenaeus says that he wrote "the first of the Socratic dialogues" (τοὺς πρώτους... τῶν Σωκρατικῶν διαλόγων); but editors of Aristotle have always rejected that reading of the text in favor of printing that he wrote dialogues "earlier than (or before) the Socratic dialogues" (τοὺς προτέρους (vel πρότερον)... τῶν Σωκρατικῶν διαλόγων).

One strong reason to emend Athenaeus and reject Alexamenus from the list of authors of Socratic dialogues is the fact that he is never mentioned among the students of Socrates. All of the other authors of Socratic dialogues (in the original, not the extended, sense) are listed among his students, and frequently mentioned in Socratic dialogues written by others.

So the balance of evidence suggests that Alexamenus was not a student of Socrates and did not write Socratic dialogues, and this is the consensus among Aristotle scholars as well as scholars on Socratic dialogues and the students of Socrates (e.g. Giannantoni).

Tad Brennan128.84.127.214 (talk) 18:45, 23 October 2015 (UTC)