Talk:Solange Knowles/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

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Unfinished "attempted" review.

There's a lot of ground to cover with this article. Overall, good organization and high quality sources. A lot of work went into this. It's close to GA. A few improvements are still needed to bring this to the next level.

Several uncited assertions ought to be fairly easy to source. The birth of Solange's son, for instance, and her landing a role in the upcoming Charlie's Angels series. Those are important points and it's hard to let that pass without citation at GA candidacy.

Also the article could use a good once-over for formatting, copyediting, and punctuation. I've made several edits to correct a misspelling in her sister's name, fix the formatting on a table, and remove excess punctuation. The page needs more of that sort of fix than I can give it during a quick review. For example, in the lead paragraph why are "actress", "singer-songwriter", and "producer" wikilinked while "R&B" appears as an unlinked acronym? That could confuse readers from outside North America and Europe. The filmography table appears to be out of order with a date error and an unexplained redlink: if a bluelink to the main article is adequate for the regular text then why isn't that used within the table also? Some other elements are hard to understand such as redlinked Category:American no singers which contains no other entry. Also, although the prose proceeds in a logical and comprehensive manner, it suffers from excess punctuation. Although GA level the prose doesn't need to be brilliant, a basic run through the MS Word spelling and grammar checkers would do this a world of good. My inner schoolmarm kept reaching for the red pencil.

Fortunately none of the problems are major and this shouldn't take very long to get up to where it earns a pass. Excellent research, very informative. Contact me when it's ready for a second review. Best wishes, DurovaCharge! 22:05, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I think I'm resolved all the issues. I couldn't find anything about her role in Charlie's Angels, so I've taken it out for now. The category was probably leftover from past vandalism, so I went and removed it. DiverseMentality 23:31, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Any more concerns? Thank you. --Efe (talk) 11:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Is the second review going to happen? Wizardman 14:17, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
I have contacted Durova before. I think he's busy. --Efe (talk) 03:22, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I think one candidate gave up on the waiting game and withdrew, somebody please finish reviewing Solange and consider passing Defeated Sanity if it meets the GA criteria. — Realist2 05:45, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

The reviewer's made plenty of edits and has been reminded. Ergo, someone else can review it, no reason to bother waiting for this one any longer. Rm'd on hold tag for the GAN page so someone should get to this quickly. Wizardman 06:01, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
I'll remove his on hold note at the GAN page. Anyway he hasn't update the nominee's talk page. Is it OK? --Efe (talk) 06:08, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
Oh, you have removed it already. --Efe (talk) 06:09, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

New GA review[edit]

GA review (see here for criteria)

This is a reasonably good article, done at the right length, but it still has some shortcomings with respect to the good article criteria.

  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
    I've done some copyediting on the article (which you can review), but I have some further comments below
    Thanks for tightening the prose. I have rectified at most one line. The meaning was twisted. --Efe (talk) 05:40, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    See comments below on where better coverage is needed
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    I look forward to seeing revisions on the article

Here are some of the comments I have on the article, which I liked overall:

  • The biggest thing that's missing is some indication of the critical response to her albums. Were they well received? Same thing about her acting roles, what were her reviews like?
  • Have added some for her albums. --Efe (talk) 07:11, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Another thing that's missing are descriptions of her artistic works. A little more is needed on the musical and songwriting style; some of this can be pulled in from the lead section to Sol-Angel and the Hadley St. Dreams, for example. And what kind of characters did she play in her movies?
  • The article mentions the genre she's in, and the themes of lyrics she often write. --Efe (talk) 07:11, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
  • There's no indication of what the sales of her second album have been like.
  • It's really hard to find sources when figures of album sales are low. But I found one, so far, dated December 2008. That's better. --Efe (talk) 06:11, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
  • This Allmusic bio says she was an opening act for Destiny's Child. If true, seems like it should be included.
  • Well, most sources only said she appeared in Destiny's Child's performance as replacement, not as opening, because we you say an opening act, it means you're already an established artist, as far as I know. --Efe (talk) 05:40, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Does she use just her first name for her singing, but both names for her acting, like her sister does? The article should clarify this, either way.
  • Uhm, I still have to check her credits in films, but as a singer, she doesn't use her surname professionally, per The Guardian. --Efe (talk) 06:15, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Is it really important? --Efe (talk) 05:57, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Yes, it's worth mentioning. I've added it. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:17, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Avoid words like 'recently' and 'To date' in the article. This article needs to make sense when it's read 10 years from now!
  • Be careful with the word 'claimed', which you use a couple of times. Does this imply the statement probably isn't true? If so, the cite had better support that implication.
  • Removed all. --Efe (talk) 06:38, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I'm not crazy about this text in the lead section: "Knowles was married in February 2004 and gave birth to a son in October of the same year. She and her husband later divorced in 2007, although both still co-parent their son." It's okay for the personal life section, but it's generally better if the lead focuses on the person's professional life. If someone's personal life is really famous, like Britney or maybe Beyoncé/Jay-Z, maybe it merits going in the lead, but that's not the case here.
  • The talk page says she's known for her painting and art. If true and citable, this should be included.
  • I'll try to scour the net. --Efe (talk) 07:13, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I have added an info bout her paint works. --Efe (talk) 07:11, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Hmmm. If that's all there is, and none of her paintings have ever been shown anywhere, it sounds like she's just doing it as a hobby rather than it representing a notable artistic endeavor. In which case it should probably be removed or the quote shortened a lot. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:42, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Anyway, let me know here if you have any questions or issues with these responses. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:51, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

  • "The album was positively received by critics, with some considering it far better than her debut." This wording is actually discouraged in WP. I'll fixed it. --Efe (talk) 05:55, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Your revised wording actual seems equivalent to what I wrote, but it's fine with me either way. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:43, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't want to get in an edit war with you, but I would request that you undo this edit. Doing "see also" and "main" references out of a biography article into album articles is an inappropriate application of WP:Summary style, since the album articles are not expanding upon the biography, but are discussing particular works by the subject. The album articles are still linked to in the lead section, in the body sections, and in the Discography section, so every reader will see them. You say "see other bios", but I am looking at the Featured Article BLPs on musical artists and none of them do this. Not Kylie Minogue, not Gwen Stefani, not John Mayer, not Selena, not Phil Collins, not U2, not Mariah Carey, not Celine Dion, none of them. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:05, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

  • Done. No big deal for me. I think I have addressed majority of your concerns. --Efe (talk) 03:38, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Still a few things:

  • Need critical response to her acting.
  • I'll try later if I can successfully access metacritic. --Efe (talk) 02:15, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
  • I've added the general reception to Bring It On. Wasted Time R (talk) 14:34, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Should briefly mention that she's acted on several episodes of TV series (IMDB can be the cite)
  • Added at least two, but will not be using IMDB as a source. --Efe (talk) 01:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
  • The description of "The Proud Family" is misleading. It was the theme song for the TV series of the same name, and Solange was the lead performer, with DC billed as 'featured'. Solange may have also written the song, I can't find a sure cite on it though. She also was featured on "Hey Goldmember" from the Austin Powers movie. Both of these are described in this RS article that's already a cite.
    • I've gone ahead and done this change. And I checked in the ASCAP/BMI databases, and she didn't write that song. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
  • I still don't like the personal life info in the lead. It should be replaced with something else, perhaps her efforts to separate image from Beyoncé's. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:37, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
  • As suggested. --Efe (talk) 02:03, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Any more concerns? --Efe (talk) 00:03, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Nope, we're done, I'm passing it. Thanks for bearing with all my comments and changes! Wasted Time R (talk) 00:10, 4 February 2009 (UTC)