Talk:Solent

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Solent Area[edit]

There is a couple of references to Selsey in the article. Strictly speaking Selsey is not in the Solent it is in the English Channel. Check Admiralty Chart 2036. Or put another way the Solent is to the west of Nab Tower, Selsey is to the east of the Nab Tower. Check any nautical reference and it will point this out, eg: The English Chnnnel pilot.Wilfridselsey (talk) 09:27, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Link farm[edit]

This article is over-linked. The references to sea,tidal, port, oak, forest, glacier give no detail pertinent to the subject, and just clutter and obscure the content.

Attempts to remove the clutter have upset people, so care must be taken resolving the problem

I agree, but it really isn't worth the bother if somebody likes it. Don't forget to sign your name, now, will you? Naturenet 18:23, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Expensive ferries[edit]

The article says that the Solent "is renowned as one of the most expensive waters to cross by ferry in the world". I'm curious about this. Can someone who knows about this expand on it? Why is it so expensive? How much does it cost? I assume this expense is on a per-distance basis; some ferries travel much further, and must be more expensive. CDC (talk) 23:29, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I think that this is hearsay and unverifably POV, although I'm open to persuasion. When I lived in Gosport exactly the same thing was said about the Gosport ferry. People just like to moan about ferry prices, despite the fact that the Solent is what makes the Island an Island, and if ferries were free the Island would just be a suburb of Portsmouth. Naturenet | Talk 12:57, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

No Man's Land Fort[edit]

Shouldn't this article include some reference to No Man's Land Fort? The Seventh Taylor 19:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I now see that with a reference to Palmerston Forts this has effectively been done. The Seventh Taylor (talk) 03:33, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation[edit]

Should there be a Solent (disambiguation) page as per WP:D? Especially with this article having a section entitled "other uses of the name" (two of which are linked to other articles). Booglamay (talk) 15:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

How wide?[edit]

Any idea how wide it is at its narrowest point? --Joopercoopers (talk) 23:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Source Was River Frome?[edit]

Can someone expand upon that fact considering the River Frome doesn't even empty into the Solent, anymore? I'm trying to picture exactly how this could have been the case, and can't. --Criticalthinker (talk) 09:48, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Done. Isle of Purbeck and Isle of Wight were formerly connected, with a valley south of Bournemouth fed by the R. Frome (and Avon at Christchurch). The Needles are all that's left.78.151.93.49 (talk) 14:37, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Merge Geologies[edit]

This article has two sections titled "Geology". Suggest merging them. Magicmike (talk) 12:34, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


Paper on flooding[edit]

http://www.mdpi.com/2073-4441/4/2/430/htm

Talks about the overal situation and a couple of past events.©Geni (talk) 16:12, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 21 April 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. There's no agreement that the "The" should be included per WP:THE. Cúchullain t/c 20:08, 8 May 2015 (UTC)



– Its called "The Solent". See: map. Britannica inc. also use The Solent (strait, English Channel). --Relisted. George Ho away from home (talk) 20:12, 29 April 2015 (UTC) GregKaye 18:29, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Ping members of WP:WikiProject Wight who may have a high level of acquaintance with the subject: Peeky44, Naturenet, NeilTarrant, Editor5807, Streona, Simply south, Robwebb, Debnigo, Greengolf17, Dainamo, Xhavnak, gcman105, Gordonofcartoon, BrayLockBoy, Raggz.

GregKaye 08:49, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

OS maps goes for "The Solent".©Geni (talk) 01:12, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support as per mapping, the 1945 map in the article also shows it as "The Solent"...Jokulhlaup (talk) 16:39, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose. WP:THE mentions two conditions under which we might put "The" in front of the name:
    1. If a word with a definite article has a different meaning with respect to the same word without the article, the word with article can be used as the name of a page about that meaning, and the word without article can be used as the name of a separate page.
    2. If the definite or indefinite article would be capitalized in running text, then include it at the beginning of the page name. Otherwise, do not.
    (1) Clearly does not apply, there is not one entity called "The Solent" and another one called "Solent". (2) apparently does not apply either, looking at sources: [1][2][3][4][5] - none of these capitalise "The", it's always "... the Solent ...", or even omitting the definite article altogether. Since neither condition is met, I don't see a reason to change this. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 12:40, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    Oh, and I didn't notice the second part of the multi-move before, but definitely oppose that too. The body of water is a clear primary topic for the term "Solent".  — Amakuru (talk) 13:05, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
Amakuru In this case I do not think that WP:THE should be rigidly applied. In this I think that a general context WP:CRITERIA should be considered within which "Recognizability" is the first issue mentioned and "Consistency" is the fifth. I contend that in the vast majority of uses in which the strait is the topic, "The Solent" or "the Solent" is used.
One of the examples that that you have presented makes mention of a "Solent sandbank" and, in this case, "Solent" is used as an adjective to describe something else. It would have little difference to me describing "Love Me Do" as "a Beatles song" which would in no way change the fact that the group are most commonly known and recognised either as "the Beatles" or "The Beatles".
Here is a search on: "solent" AND (wight OR portsmouth OR strait) AND -southampton AND -university AND -river. Even with adjectival mention of such issues as "Solent hazzards" factored in, I think that the predominant use is either of "the Solent" or "The Solent".
Solent is ambiguous which is why we have Solent (disambiguation). In a contextualised sentence "Solent" may, at a stretch be ok. As a stand alone title it does not work. GregKaye 07:38, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
Alright then, GregKaye, you've convinced me. You're right that "The" is almost never omitted from the title, so it does seem more recognisable. I therefore Support the move to The Solent, but continue to Oppose moving Solent (disambiguation) to Solent. The body of water is the primary topic, even with "the" omitted.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:57, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Oppose: There is no evidence that “The Solent” is a proper name, let alone a commonname. If it were then the Battle of the Solent would be The Battle of The Solent and sources don’t support that. If it were Lee-on-the-Solent would be Lee-on-The-Solent and sources don’t support that. In most references to the Mary Rose, sunk in the Solent in 1545, “the Solent’’ appears in running text. Additionally, a JSTOR search reveals overwhelmingly, “the Solent” is used in running text in all manner of journal articles. There is also a point of potential confusion by using “The Solent” as Vaughn Williams has an album entitled “The Solent” (2013) [6] --Mike Cline (talk) 13:00, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Mike Cline I would alternatively propose that the fact that Ralph Vaughan Williams has music published under the album title The Solent can be taken as further evidence that "the Solent" is recognisably and I dare say commonly known as "the Solent" or "The Solent". The "Product Description" of the album presents: "... The Impressions, recorded here for the first time, describe three natural beauties of England - Burley Heath, Harnham Down and The Solent. ..."..
You make valid mention of Lee-on-the-Solent but please consider the results of a similarly phrased search on "on the beatles". These texts are displayed on the first page of the search as: "Mark Arnold Picks on the Beatles", "which on The Beatles' song", "a good promotional job at all on the Beatles", "Early Influences on the Beatles" and "a pun on the Beatles' Merseyside origins". An instance of adjectival use presented "picked up rather late on the Beatles' success". There is even more ambiguity on "Solent" with subjects of more greater notability than the Vaughan Williams' album being listed at Solent (disambiguation). GregKaye 08:22, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

oppose 'the Solent' is not a proper name. It takes 'the' like any other proper names but 'the' is not part of the name, no more than it is for the Pennines, the Weald or any similar geographical feature. You need only look at the external links to this article to find it used without 'the'. That the 'predominant use' is with 'the' is irrelevant. WP policy is to not include 'the' unless it is part of the name or it changes the meaning somehow if its omitted.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 14:19, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

JohnBlackburne Wikipedia policy is to use commonly recognized names. What would you have done with the article on the Beatles? GregKaye 21:53, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia policy on the use of 'the' in titles is here: WP:THE, and is clear, 'the' should only be included if omitting it changes the meaning or if it is part of the name. Neither is the case here. For The Beatles on the other hand 'the' is normally part of the name – see e.g. their logo from their drumkit – but we are not here discussing the self-chosen name of a band, but a geographical feature which there are far more relevant examples. I mentioned two above, here is another, the Wirral Peninsula, known almost universally locally as the 'Wirral'.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 22:23, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
SpitheadCloseup.png
Solent map (OS).jpg

JohnBlackburne To the right are the two maps as found at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Solent both with the name of the subject clearly presented:

The "their logo from their drumkit" is all caps. On this basis would you advocate a move from: The BeatlesTHE BEATLES? Of course not. In any case, in Wikipedia we go by commonly recognizable name not official name. Please also see image search results on: "with the beatles", "on the beatles", "of the beatles" and anything else editors would like to try.

In any conception of WP:UCRN, if something is most commonly known by a name, inclusive of situations where it may be "known almost universally locally" by that particular name, then that is the name that we should use - no exceptions Here is a books search on: the hague. Results from the first page of results (where "the hague" appears mid text but not used adjectivally) are:

  • From Nuremberg to The Hague: The Future of International ...
  • Women at the Hague: The International Congress of Women ...
  • Justice Beyond the Hague: Supporting the Prosecution of ...
  • Interim Measures in The Hague Court: An Attempt at a Scrutiny
  • 14th Triennial Meeting, The Hague, 12-16 September 2005: ...
  • A Guide to the Hague and Hague-Visby Rules
  • Living in the Hague, Holland

Should we move The HagueHague or would that be vague? See: Hague (disambiguation)

(the adjectival uses presented: "... the Hague Agreement ..." and "... the Hague Tribunal ...")

Solent is also ambiguous and yet this is easily rectified. It is most commonly known as "The Solent"/"the Solent".

GregKaye 07:50, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

how is it ambiguous? Whether 'the Solent' or 'Solent' it is perfectly clear what it means. Or what else, on reading it, might a reader think it to be?--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 10:28, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
Ultimately, whether it is called Solent or The Solent depends entirely on what map you read. This move isn't needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrayLockBoy (talkcontribs) 16:45, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── BrayLockBoy very true, solent map. In sequence the labels or titles are: 1. "The Coast of the Solent ..."; 2. no marking; 3, "THE SOLENT"; 4. one inland marking saying "Solent" with "The Solent" repeated on the associated page; 5. "WEST SOLENT" and "EAST SOLENT"; 6. no marking; 7. no marking; 8. "THE SOLENT"; 9. no marking; 10. "THE SOLENT"; 11. "West Solent", "East Solent", 12. "The Solent"; 13. "The Solent"; 14. no marking; 15. "The Solent"; 16. "The Solent"; 17. "THE SOLENT"; 18 "THE SOLENT"; 19. no marking. All map markings in the sea indicated "The Solent" with the exception of a minority specifying "West Solent" and "East Solent". GregKaye 19:49, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Comment I admit I don't know a great deal about naming conventions and use of "the" on Wikipedia, but from a local perspective, no-one refers to it as "Solent", it is always referred to as "The Solent". Editor5807speak 18:03, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

  • Oppose. The usage of capitalizing the the does seem to be mixed but lowercase does seem more common: [7], [8], [9], [10]. Zarcadia (talk) 18:46, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
In general, it would seem as if The Solent is only referred to without 'The' if 'Solent' is part of a wider name. Take BBC Radio Solent for example. 'Solent' on its own also seems to be favoured in the names of ships. However, both in colloquial speech and on maps, when referring to the tract of water itself, it is always The Solent. BrayLockBoy (talk) 21:03, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
BrayLockBoy did your 21:03, 1 May 2015 edit imply support? GregKaye 05:53, 15 May 2015 (UTC)