Talk:Sonia Sotomayor

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Good article Sonia Sotomayor has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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Date Process Result
September 28, 2009 Good article nominee Listed
In the news A news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "In the news" column on August 6, 2009.
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Sephardic Jewish ancestry[edit]

Why is no mention made of Ms. Sotomayor's Sephardic Jewish ancestry? Spehardic Jews come from all over the world like many other Jews. Sonia Sotomayor’s mother’s maiden name is “Baez,” which is a Sephardic Jewish surname:

My sources: http://genforum.genealogy.com/baez/messages/24.html http://www.italian-family-history.com/jewish/_Genova.html http://anusimcenter.org/Successes.html http://www.cryptojews.com/Garza.htm http://articles.latimes.com/1992-09-01/news/vw-6750_1_jewish-community?pg=1 http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.velasquez/156/mb.ashx http://boards.ancestry.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=175&p=topics.religious.jewish.sephardic --197.229.120.26 (talk) 16:29, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Seems to me that most of your "sources" are worthless: the ancestry.com and genealogy.com message forums are certainly not reliable sources. The LA Times article happens to mention a Cuban jew whose last name was Baez; the rest mention the last name. But you seem to be arguing that the last name is a definitive indicator of sephardic jewish ancestry (so that anyone who has that last name must have Sephardic jewish ancestry) and your sources certainly don't get anywhere near such a conclusion. Given that Justice Sotomayor has given no indication of such an ancestry, and there is no reliable sources that have been put forth to justify such a claim, that would by why it is not mentioned. Magidin (talk) 16:54, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
How many Sephardic Jews with that name would it take to convince you that it is Sephardic? It's like saying that we cannot say a Mac Donald is of Scottish, or Irish extraction, because other ethnicities have also called themselves by that name at times. Incidentally, many Sephardic Jews were Marrano Jews who due to oppression, or for other reasons hid their Jewish identity over the centuries. You don't need to have someone claim to be of a certain ethnicity to know they are from that ethnicity either.--197.229.120.26 (talk) 17:23, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
According to http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/baez/24/ :

"...the name Baez has been identified by the Holy Office of the Catholic Church of Spain (and other sources) as a Sephardic (Jewish) name.If you wish to research this aspect of the Baez family, you are invited to visit Sephardim.com located at http://www.sephardim.comhttp://www.sephardim.com"--197.229.120.26 (talk) 17:40, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

According to http://www.sephardim.com/namelist.shtml?mode=form&from=B&to=C&Search=Search the name Baez is Sephardic. This site has many verifiable references.--197.229.120.26 (talk) 17:49, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
"How many Sephardic Jews with that name would it take to convince you that it is Sephardic?" It's not a question of convincing me. It's a question of having reliable sources within the meaning of Wikipedia. Even if the name itself is of Sephardic Jewish origin, this does not mean that Sotomayor herself is "of Sephardic jewish origin"; you would have to provide reliable sources for that claim. Guessing that she has Sephardic Jewish origins on the basis of a name to which she is connected would constitute original research. So, absent specific, reliable sources (within the meaning of Wikipedia) that establish that Sotomayor specifically has that origin, you are engaging in guesswork and original research. Which would be the main reason why it is not mentioned or included. A secondary reason is that its inclusion needs to be relevant. Even assuming without granting that the claim is accurate, why is it relevant? Sotomayor seems to be utterly unaware of it; she self-identifies as Catholic from a Catholic family; and there has been no mainstream discussion of this. So why would it need to be included, even if verifiable and not original research. Magidin (talk) 18:22, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
Not only is Catholicism a religion, and not an ethnicity, but the vast majority of Wikipedia articles do NOT adhere to your understanding of "original research". The amount of evidence I have supplied should be more than sufficient when you consider that similar amounts of evidence is used already on many existing Wikipedia articles on other famous people and their ethnicities. If it was important enough to mention her religion in the article, why not her ethnicity (they are not the same thing)? My source directly above is NOT part of my own attempt at original research as it is a secondary source which is well referenced to MANY reliable primary sources and authors which all agree, if you bothered to read what I linked to. Therefore it is more likely than not that I am correct.
I have also discovered the name Sotomayor is also highly likely of Sephardic Jewish origin (http://www.sephardim.com/namelist.shtml?mode=form&from=S&to=T&Search=Search) However, in the interest of compromise and in acknowledging the benefit of the doubt, however small, I propose something like the following be added to the article at the bottom of the section called "early life": "The name Sotomayor is either of Spanish, or Sephardic Jewish origin, likewise with the surname of Baez" - followed by citations using my secondary sources, or the many primary sources that they list (books, etc).--197.229.122.14 (talk) 19:37, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
The Wikipedia definition of original research (not "my" definition) is: "material - such as facts, allegations, or ideas - for which no reliable published sources exist." You proposed specifically identifying Sonia Sotomayor as having "Sephardic Jewish ancestry"; do you have a reliable published source that specifically identifies Sotomayor as having such ancestry? Because what you provide is sources that identify the maiden name of her mother as a name that is associated with Sephardic Jews. That's a very different proposition from saying Sotomayor has that ancestry. Specifically, you are engaging in synthesis: "the combination of material from multiple sources in order to reach or imply a conclusion that is not explicitly stated in any of those sources", namely, the conclusion that Sotomayor has Sephardic Jewish ancestry. So: absent a reliable published source that actually reaches the conclusion that Justice Sonia Sotomayor has Sephardic Jewish ancestry, you are, in fact, engaging in original research within the meaning of Wikipedia. Sotomayor's religion was in fact a matter of public discussion during and after her confirmation (the emergence of a solid "Catholic majority" in the Supreme Court). Her latino ethnicity likewise was a matter of discussion and appears in sundry published sources. Hence they are included. Can you find any published reliable sources discussing a Sephardic Jewish ancestry? Absent such sources, why is it notable? Yes, I read your primary sources, thank you very much for the personal dig. And because what you are doing is taking primary sources and conducting your own personal synthesis, that constitutes original research (regardless of whether it is "more likely than not" that you are correct; it's still original research). As to your proposed compromise, I continue to fail to see why it is notable or worthy of inclusion, given again the complete absence of any reliable verifiable source that indicates this has been something notable or discussed anywhere as it relates specifically to Justice Sotomayor. Again, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth; whether you are "more likely than not" to be correct is irrelevant; whether others do it elsewhere is likewise irrelevant; you are proposing original research within the meaning of Wikipedia in the form of synthesis. Magidin (talk) 22:55, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
User:Magidin is correct. You can only add that she is of Sephardic Jewish ancestry if there are reliable published sources that state that she's of Sephardic Jewish ancestry. You can't research it yourself using ancestry.com and the like. That's exactly what "original research" means here.
If feel that you're an authority in the field, please go ahead and get your findings published in a reliable source, and then we can consider adding a line or two using that published, reliable source as a citation, provided there is a consensus to do so. TJRC (talk) 23:47, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
I concur with the opinions of Magidin and TJRC on this matter. The proposed addition by the IP is original research and synthesis, and therefore should not be included absent substantiation by a reliable source. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 00:54, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Lawrence Tribe Letter[edit]

This article should include some discussion of Lawrence Tribe's letter cautioning President Obama against nominating J. Sotomayor. Numerous notable sources have reported on this, see, e.g.: ABA Journal, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, etc. Exclerk1414 (talk) 21:16, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

I know that Laurence Tribe is an icon, but I'm not really sure this is really all that notable. Legal luminaries say all kinds of things about potential Supreme Court candidates, both good and bad, and I don't think is much more than a flash in the pan. But if we do mention his comments, then we should also mention that Professor Tribe later stated that "his early reservations about Sonia Sotomayor ... have been 'happily negated by her performance as a justice thus far.'" Also, it may be better to present this information at Laurence Tribe's article rather than this one. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 22:27, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Given Tribe's stature, his opinion on Sotomayor's nomination is certainly significant, and it has been covered in-depth by reliable sources. So, not only would the Tribe letter satisfy Notability (were we creating a standalone article) -- it should also be included here in accordance with the principle of due weight. And of course his later comments should be included as well. Note that the article already mentions commentary re: Sotomayor's nomination by far less significant figures, e.g. Rush Limbaugh. -- Exclerk1414 (talk) 15:33, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2016[edit]

In the "Early Life" section when the author is talking about the importance of education in the Sotomayor household please add that when Sotomayor was in high school, her mother went back to school for a college degree. Sotomayor, her brother and her mother all sat at the dining room table working on homework together (Felix, A. (2010). Sonia Sotomayor: The True American Dream. New York: Berkley Books). Throughout their life they say how hard their mother worked for her education and how seriously she took it. This was a constant motivator for Sotomayor to do well in school. While in elementary and middle school, her mother made sure Sotomayor's homework was done before she could hang out with her friends Felix, A. (2010). Sonia Sotomayor: The True American Dream. New York: Berkley Books).

In the "Early Legal Career" section please add that Sotomayor "decided on a career path at age ten after watching Perry Manson on television" (Cushman, 2013). She wanted to be a dectective but her doctors told her the job would be too demanding with her diabetes. She still loved law and the mystery and suspense that surrounded it, so she decided to be a lawyer or judge. They fit her love for law, but weren't as demanding on the body. Lsteele96 (talk) 19:45, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

ClockC-Can you please provide hyperlinks to respective pages of the books/other references.Otherwise, it is difficult to ascertain the veracity of the statements.Aru@baska❯❯❯ Vanguard 15:38, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2017[edit]

Please include mention of Justice Sotomayor's dissent in the case of Utah v Strieff. The case of Utah v Strieff is a significant Fourth Amendment case as it extends police stop and search powers, effectively 'forgiving' illegal stops if the policeman (now in possession of the effected person's name) discovers an unrelated warrant against that person. Justice Sotomayor (along with Justice Kagan and Justice Bader Ginsburg) was in dissent, pointing out the systemic abuse of police power and racial and socioeconomic impacts of the majority judgement. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_v._Strieff, and https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-1373_83i7.pdf. Justice Sotomayor's dissent was described in popular media as 'thundering', 'brave', 'fiery, 'barn-burner' and 'lambasting': https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/21/us/supreme-court-says-police-may-use-evidence-found-after-illegal-stops.html, http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/06/20/sonia_sotomayor_dissent_in_utah_v_strieff_takes_on_police_misconduct.html, http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/utah-streiff-sotomayor/487922/, http://www.npr.org/2016/06/20/482879905/evidence-found-in-illegal-stops-backed-by-justices-but-brings-fiery-dissent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.208.17.172 (talk) 06:19, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

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