Talk:South Australian National Football League

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WikiProject Australia / Australian rules football / South Australia / Sports (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
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National?[edit]

why is it called south australian NATIONAL football league? it's a contradiction. It's either the South Australian league or it's the National league? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.98.148 (talk) 2007-08-04 05:56:32 (UTC)

- it's just what it's called! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.20.84 (talk) 2007-10-15 11:09:16 (UTC)

Response:-

The word "National" was adopted in the 1920's as part of a broader adoption of the term across the country for governing bodies of Australia's national football code around that time ( see http://www.fullpointsfooty.net/1927_to_1932.htm ) The word "National" in SANFL has never been a contradiction in its intended context. Whether the term should be dropped to suit the sport's current regime / landscape is open for debate. However, as far as I am aware, Australian Rules football is still Australia's home grown national sport - irrespective of who is meant to be 'running' the code. Perhaps as Association Football (soccer) in Australia attempts to allign the word "football" with its own code in Australia, maybe the "N" in SANFL has more credence, not less. 60.231.213.254 (talk) 17:25, 29 August 2008 (UTC)User:StrayDog125

Something of this should be explained in the article. Mark Hurd (talk) 15:49, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Stadiums[edit]

Re-add stadiums. Someone deleted Alberton Oval claiming it wasn't a stadium, however it is according to Wikipedia's definition "a place, or venue, for (mostly) outdoor sports, concerts or other events, consisting of a field or stage partly or completely surrounded by a structure designed to allow spectators to stand or sit and view the event" which accurately describes it and other SANFL venues. This is consistent with the WAFL and VFL pages. User:Biatch 25/5/06

AFL Affiliate[edit]

I recommend removing the AFL Affiliate column from the current clubs section. If there are no affiliations why is it included? preceding unsigned comment by 203.26.206.129 (talk • contribs)


Agreed - just never got round to doing the delte until now. I assume someone used to the VFL-AFL & affiliations felt SANFL needed such a column. I will delete it but add a comment to point out that no set affiliations apply in SANFL. Pudgey 10:37, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Previous names[edit]

I removed the Wiki links to previous names for the SANFL in the Info box. One (SAFL) led straight back to this article (surprise!) and the other - South Australian Football Association - is a red link that could only possibly result in a redirect to here. Pudgey 20:02, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SANFLLogo.JPG[edit]

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Port Magpies 1877 or 1997?[edit]

The article says that Port Adelaide left the competition to join the AFL to be replaced by Port Magpies, but in the list of clubs states that Port Magpies entered the competition in 1877. This is inconsistent. Maybe the table should mention both forms of Port (you can't ignore the 30+ premierships they won prior to entering the AFL!) It would also be worth listing how many premierships West Torrens won (4) in the table. Did any other former clubs win any?

Yes, the old Adelaide Football Club won it once before the 20th century. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.131.209.48 (talk) 12:25, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

1877 vs 1997[edit]

This is a matter that desperately needs to be verified. Looking at the OFFICIAL Magpies section of the SANFL website (http://www.sanfl.com.au/clubs/port_adelaide_magpies/), there is no mention of a new club being formed in 1997 to replace the current team being changed into the Port Adelaide Power team. Also, in the Magpies website (http://www.portmagpies.com.au/about.php), it says that Power joined the AFL with the Magpies continuing in the SANFL, with both clubs sharing history from 1877 - 1996. I suggest that unless any evidence can be found to support the view that a new Magpies team was formed in 1997, that the evidence I have found to suggest otherwise be used as a basis to change the details on all the wiki pages that states that the current SANFL team was the new team, so it shows that actually the Port Adelaide Power team in the AFL was actually the new team,. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.7.183.131 (talk) 08:54, 28 June 2008 (UTC)




Agreed, and changes now made to that effect in 'General Information', 'Current clubs', 'Former clubs', and 'History - 1990 to 1999'.

NB - irrelevant references to AFL finals and premierships also removed from the text.

User:StrayDog125 20/08/2008 124.182.243.182 (talk) 04:12, 20 August 2008 (UTC)



Changed name of SANFL-owned stadium[edit]

I've changed the name of AAMI Stadium (also known as Football Park to Football Park (also known as AAMI Stadium). This reflects other commercially-named stadia (cf Docklands Stadium, where they had a lot of discussion regarding it). Sem boy (talk) 08:42, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Pre-1877[edit]

The earliest recorded football club in South Australia was Adelaide Football Club, formed in 1860[10].

The website quoted in ref. 10 has removed this 1860 information. So is it true or not, needs new reference please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.108.136.237 (talk) 21:03, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

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South Australian Football Commission[edit]

Currently this page is contradictory with the template and South Australian Football Commission where both the SANFL and the SAFC are the "the sport's governing body" in SA. I assume this page should be updated to 'subsist' the governing rights to the SAFC, but I don't know. Mark Hurd (talk) 15:32, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Port Adelaide/Port Adelaide Magpies/Port Adelaide Reserves[edit]

Someone has removed all reference within Current Clubs and Former Clubs to pre 2014 Port Adelaide claiming vandalism. I am going to rollback this change expecting justification why the past history of Port Adelaide should not be recognized in the following three entities:

  • Port Adelaide Football Club (participated 1877-1996) - joined the AFL in 1997
  • Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club (1997-2013) - formed to retain a Port Adelaide branded presence in the SANFL, Amalgamated with the Port Adelaide club in 2010 and were replaced in 2014 with the Port Adelaide Reserves team.
  • Port Adelaide Football Club (2014-) - reserves team for the Port Adelaide Football Club (AFL)

Screech1616 (talk) 00:22, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Below the current clubs table, it states "The latter will play as the Magpies and maintain their records and history as Port Adelaide Football Club" – but this is not referenced (I've just tagged it as such) and I've not been able to find a reference which confirms this – certainly it did not appear to be listed as one of the conditions of Port Adelaide entering its reserves team in the news articles I read about it. If someone can provide a reference which explicitly confirms this statement, then Port Adelaide's seniors and reserves must be treated as one team and all 36 premierships allocated to it.
If a reference confirming this statement cannot be found, then I will join with Screech1616 in arguing for the Port Adelaide reserves to be treated as distinct from the Port Adelaide seniors for the purpose of premiership counts and the like, which is consistent with the approach we've taken in the VFA/VFL space; but, I will also argue that Port Adelaide's entire SANFL senior history from 1877-2013 be treated as a single entity (not two or three); and, I'll argue for greater prominence in the article for former clubs which played in the district era (Port, Woodville and West Torrens) compared with former clubs from the pre-district era (it wouldn't give due weight to lump Port Adelaide down into a section with Bankers and Kensington). Aspirex (talk) 23:16, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Aspirex, I progressed this discussion to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian rules football as a conflict seeking a third opinion. The concern that I have with your proposed combining of all Port Adelaide SANFL together (bar reserves) is that there is a clear differentiation between 1996 and 1997. There is no doubt that they shifted to the AFL, and the One Club "merger" that occurred in 2010 certainly indicates they were separate clubs, it should probably be treated like any other merger, just in this case it was two clubs that were formed as a result of a split. For the record the following is my discussion on the WikiProject page: Screech1616 (talk) 10:47, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Need a input from a third opinion on an edit-war that is brewing on the SANFL page. Referenced information is repeatedly being removed by User:Thejoebloggsblog without reason other than accusation of vandalism or trolling. Repeated efforts to engage in discussion to understand what is objectionable has been ignored.
The text that is apparently objectionable is the following in the former clubs section:
* Port Adelaide (1877-1996) - the most successful club winning 34 premierships before moving to the Australian Football League [1]
* Port Adelaide Magpies (1997-2013) - formed to retain a Port Adelaide branded presence in the SANFL when the original Port Adelaide club moved to the AFL.[2] Won 2 premierships, 1998 and 1999. Amalgamated with the Port Adelaide club in 2010[2][3] and were replaced in 2014 with a Port Adelaide Reserves team.[4]
Having a bit of a look further, it seems that this was also a problem on the former Port Adelaide SANFL article. Talk:Port Adelaide Football Club (SANFL) Screech1616 (talk) 12:23, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
You say one thing I disagree with, which is "it should probably be treated like any other merger". There is no one-size-fits-all approach when dealing with sports mergers. Each case needs to be examined and, in most cases, the presentation of information should be consistent with normal convention. Normal convention states that Port Adelaide has won 36 senior premierships (basically every reference says so), so normal convention has concluded that pre-1996 and post-1997 share a common history – and effectively that the history is possessed/transferred by the on-field team, not the off-field club. An direct analogy is the North Melbourne Football Club: convention dictates that this is a single club which has existed continuously since 1869 – but a careful review of its history will reveal that the club completely disbanded on three separate occasions (1876, 1908 and 1921), making it four separate clubs which are considered to have shared a common history and identity; I allude to this in the lead of 1910 VFA season, but I would not list those four as separate in a list of former clubs or for a premiership count, because that would be presenting a view on history which would constitute a WP:SYNTHESIS, regardless of its defensibility. Aspirex (talk) 14:02, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
That is fine from a club point of view (they can attribute their history however they want), this is looking at it from the league's perspective. This is not the same Port Adelaide club throughout all those years, there was a distinct change in 1997 (Port Adelaide Magpies FC) and again in 2014 (changing to a Reserves team). Going back to the club POV, what will happen if they win the 2015 AFL & SANFL premierships, will they suddenly have 39 premierships, or would the SANFL premiership be counted towards their Reserves premierships total? Screech1616 (talk) 11:22, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
The SANFL website considers PAFC and PAMFC as sharing a common identity and history. Link (refer to the section on 'The Nineties', which refers to Port Adelaide as a whole winning seven premierships in the 1990s); the Port Adelaide 'club' page on the SANFL website does likewise Link); so from the league's perspective, Port Adelaide has won 36 premierships. I fully understand your arguments and the point you're trying to make, but from the perspective of how the information is presented on this page, I disagree with you.
On your other question: personally, I think the best way to go about it on the club page is to treat it as an SANFL senior premiership (such that the next flag brings the club from 36 to 37), but to use subheadings to clarify which flags were won as PAFC senior team, which were won as PAMFC senior team, and which were won as PAFC reserves team. AFL flags would be treated as separate because it represents a different competition and a different title. Aspirex (talk) 06:50, 29 December 2014 (UTC)