Talk:South Beach

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PHOTOS[edit]

Miamitom 16:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC) Is "Mark Averette" the only allowed photo contributor? Are others allowed to contribute, I thought wikipedia was an open encyclopedia, but every time I contribute a photo to the Miami or South Beach pages, he deletes my contribution. I am going to file a dispute with an admin if this behavior does not stop.

No. anyone can contribute. However, the page has an excessive number of photos. If you have a photo that represents South bEach, put it. a photo of a shoreline that can be anywhere from Brazil to New Jersey hardly represents a unique aspect of South Beach - Marc Averette 16:46, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Nightlife Section[edit]

right now, the article contains this text:

"According to magazines such as The New Times and Ocean Drive, South Beach has replaced Los Angeles and New York City as the United States' most popular nightlife spot."

So lets review that statement: based on two magazines which are both located in Miami and have provided no research or proof, South Beach is the most popular nightlife spot in the united states? Don't you think that the Miami New Times and Ocean Drive magazine have a vested interest in saying Miami is the most popular nightlife spot? Don't you think New York Magazine or Time Out New York have said similar things about New York City being the most popular nightlife spot? This quote fails the NPOV test, as well as failing to cite references, so I am going to remove the text.

Miami does have a big nightlife scene, but to say they are more popular than NY and LA? I need more proof than two obviously pro-Miami publications.

  • The fashion shooting section is horribly written, and does not meet wiki standards. it claims many statististics, including "1500 models" living in the area, and claims South Beach to be the fashion photography capital of the USA. I think I'm just going to delete it if no one speaks up. Skiendog (talk) 20:53, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
  • ya, im just going to delete it. here's a copy of it, if anyone wants to restore and add sources. Skiendog (talk) 20:54, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
    • "South Beach is one of the world's foremost locations for fashion shoots, making the Miami area the model shoot capital of the United States. Approximately 1500 models live in the area, with many more arriving during the prime fashion shooting season, October to March. Ocean Drive is the most popular place for shoots, but back streets are often used as well."

Gay Mecca section[edit]

Jaranda yanked the 'Gay Mecca' section for lack of citation. That's fine and all but the rest of this article is also not cited. Like for example the entire "History" section, which is full of specific assertions. Should we yank the whole article because of that or just the part about gay people? It would be nice if somebody could find citations for some of the statements asserted in the paragraph that he removed because I thought it was a good paragraph. Mostly. A little NPOV but I think it can be fixed with citations and some editing. Doesn't seem to make sense or to be very NPOV to just throw away good copy that's mostly truthful and verifiable just because it's about gay people. (Sobesurfski 18:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC))

It has to do with double standard. We don't refer to Yellowstone, Las Vegas or Islamorada as being "straight meccas". - Marc Averette 04:40, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
quetsch It could be labeled as "speed marrige mecca" (US-Films, Boulevard-News) und as the gambling-mecca. Other Citys are also not marked as non-gambling-mecca or abstinence-mecca. --Fg68at de:Disk 14:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
The entry on Little Italy is an example of an NPOV article on a concentration of one demographic in a specific geographic location. Like it or not, South Beach really is known throughout the world for its gay population, and also as a gay-friendly tourist destination. It's POV to ignore such a commonly-accepted aspect of South Beach. I write this as a (straight) resident of South Beach. (Sobesurfski 11:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC))
Again with the double standard. I guess we need to go through every place that isn't recognized as "gay" listed throughout Wikipedia and list them as "straight" places. Pretty big task. - Marc Averette 13:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
That's very POV. The article mentions that South Beach appeals to European tourists. Do we remove that because every other place entry in Wikipedia doesn't mention that the place is NOT a European tourist destination? That's ridiculous. Removing the reference to gay tourism while retaining references to other groups is POV. South Beach is known for its appeal to the gay demographic, that's just a fact. reference, reference, reference. Highlighting the appeal of South Beach to European tourists and the fashion industry but whitewashing away its connection to gay culture is very POV. (Sobesurfski 15:37, 2 February 2007 (UTC))
But every large city has a gay website Gay Orlandoo, Gay Tampa, Gay Jacksonville, Gay Atlanta, Gay Daytona Beach, Gay Savannah... etc. - the list is practically endless. Should we list all these places as 'popular gay tourist destinations'? According to their gay websites, they are. Do you see what I'm getting at? Gay culture is everywhere. What makes Key West and Southbeach stand out? A few more gay tourists than the national average? At what point do we decide that it's a gay place? Are there more gay tourists than straight ones? I seriously doubt that, since both destinations attract people from all over the world, whether gay or straight. - Marc Averette 15:58, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Some clear analogies here are Provincetown, Massachusetts and Key West, Florida, both of which are also known specifically as gay tourism destinations. Both towns, like South Beach, are listed in the Gay tourism article.
From the Provincetown article: "For those who follow the gay travel and event circuit, Provincetown is currently a destination of choice during the week surrounding the July 4th holiday. The town is successful enough to now offer two full series of events that compete during "Circuit Week" for best boat cruise, most elaborate dance event, and most famous DJ - and for tourist dollars."
From the Key West article: "PrideFest is seven days of events, presented by the Gay and Lesbian Community Center of Key West the first week in June. The schedule includes the Pride Follies talent extravaganza; contests to select a Mr., Ms. and Miss PrideFest; parties, a tea dance; and the PrideFest Parade down Duval Street. Key West was the first American city to openly recruit gay tourists."
Following both of those cues, the South Beach article needs a paragraph about specific events that can be referenced, such as White Party and Winter Party Festival, as well as the gay & lesbian film festival and the numerous local businesses that appeal to the gay demographic. It's just very POV to omit such a defining characteristic from the South Beach entry.
This is a funny thing to debate, since I'm straight instead of gay and I'm a resident instead of a tourist. But serously man, if you walk around South Beach you see rainbow flags everywhere. It's part of South Beach. It's POV to omit such a fundamental part of the South Beach DNA from the article. (Sobesurfski 21:33, 2 February 2007 (UTC))
I agree that something should be mentioned here. The original deleted section was not entirely unproblematic, as Miami Beach is not the "southernmost" (what about Key West, or even Sydney in the other hemisphere?), nor is it clear what the claim "third most after NYC and SF" is based on -- Per-capita gay residents? But not to mention Versace here, or to have an extensive discussion of the club scene with no mention of anything gay, strikes me as strange. I'm not a South Beach expert (spent about a week there in 1991-2 over New Year's, and another night there in January 2003), but maybe this comment will inspire someone local and more up-to-date to do something.--Bhuck 10:36, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Here is a reference/source someone might want to cite: "The most important center, around which the gay part of Floridas tourism industry revolves, is South Beach, the southern tip of Miami Beach." (Spartacus International Gay Guide, 2003/2004, p. 1063, introductory blurb about "Florida") And "Parallel to [Ocean Drive] run Collins and Washington Avenue, which form one side of the gay right angle. The other side is the Lincoln Road Mall, a real pedestrian zone in the US (!). Along one of these axes you'll find all gay estableshements of the town in walkable distances." (ibid., p. 1084, introductory blurb about "Miami Beach", typos in both quotes are sic).--Bhuck 10:43, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
The South Beach section does notoriously omit any contributions, presence, or economic activity vital to its community, made by the large gay populous. I feel like the topic is being censored. I lived in the beach for 5 years during the transformation that was made possible by the influx of gay people and a developer called Thomas Kramer. The Fashionistas were a by product of this. I also second the notion that although citations are in order, we will not simply remove all uncited work. This is not "X's" view of South Beach. It is globally known and understood that the contributions of the gay community to what has become this Mecca of tourism, are what they are, and merit mention in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Novamba (talkcontribs) 16:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Alternative Names[edit]

I saw that it said "also known as SoBe" in parenthesis in the first paragraph. Being a Miami native my whole life, I've never heard anyone call South Beach "SoBe" so I removed that information.

I live in South Beach. I've heard "SoBe", but it's always been said by people away from here (or in magazine articles referring to South Beach). I've never heard anyone local say "SoBe". I certainly never say it, since aside from sounding stupid it's the name of a very bad tasting low-quality line of soft drinks. As a matter of fact, when people (in Miami) ask me where I live, I say "the beach", and when people away from Miami ask me where I live, I say "Miami Beach", not even South Beach. - Marc Averette 04:36, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Very true. It seems to mostly be New Yorkers who are into terms like "SoHo" who say things like "SoBe" and "SoFi" (South of Fifth in Miami Beach). People from this area just call it "the beach". (Sobesurfski 15:39, 2 February 2007 (UTC))

I agree that SoBe is a realtor's invention, but I would never call a cab from Miami and, when asked, say that my destination is "the beach." They'd think I was crazy. There's no scarcity of beaches around Miami. Even if the dispatcher assumed I was referring to Miami Beach - not a given - she'd want more info. It's a long strip of land, after all. "The beach" is just as big an affectation as "SoBe." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.189.162.201 (talk) 05:57, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

As I just restored it again (it was deleted without explanation), I'll note the usage of "SoBe" for "South Beach" in a news headline, here. It looks there is some usage of the term. -- Donald Albury 03:18, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Transportation from Miami[edit]

I just deleted the above named section from the article, as it was entirely travel guide directions, original research on bus routes and a vague unsourced report on future infrastructure plans: violations of Wikipedia is not a travel guide, no original research, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball and/or verifiability. -- Donald Albury 16:47, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Demographics[edit]

I'm not entirely sure what the writer was trying to say with the sentence:

As of 2000, all of Miami Beach residents, including those of South Beach, spoke Spanish as a first language, which accounted for 54.89% of residents, while English made was spoken by 32.75% of thr population.

but whatever it was supposed to be, it isn't right. Perhaps they wanted:

As of 2000, 54.89% of all Miami Beach residents (not specifically South Beach residents) spoke Spanish as a first language, while English was spoken as a first language by 32.75% of the population.

66.165.176.60 (talk) 21:46, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Agreed! That sentence is flat-out ridiculous. Every person in Miami Beach speaks Spanish as a first langugage? Here's one who doesn't. That statement is patent nonsense. I live in a 200+-unit condo on South Beach. All the doormen and staff speak English; every notice the condo sends out is in fluent English and they don't even offer Spanish translations. I'm deleting the sentence. I don't need feel the need to cite sources or do any further research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.189.162.201 (talk) 05:49, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


Most Deco buildings in the world[edit]

I know that various sources (magazine articles, guide books) make this claim. But I have never seen it substantiated. I mean, I love the architecture of South Beach, but it is a small place. It doesn't seem likely that it has more deco buildings than, Los Angeles, Chicago or New York. I'm not even certain that it has the densest area of art deco buildings in the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.35.50 (talk) 20:47, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

South Beach in pop culture[edit]

Anybody want to create a Pop Culture section? There is obviously plenty of it!! Eric Statzer (talk) 21:28, 4 December 2010 (UTC)


Good idea. I'll create one. allixpeeke (talk) 20:29, 7 September 2013 (UTC)


Okay, I created one, and included South Beach (1993 TV series), The Birdcage (1996), South Beach (2006 TV series), Burn Notice (2007–2013), the sixth season of College Hill (TV series) (2009), South Beach Classics (2011), and South Beach Tow (2011–present).
But, I found a couple other items, and I wasn't sure whether they should be included. They are:
  • Kings of South Beach (2007)—I couldn't tell from the description to what extent this took place in or referenced South Beach
  • Las Brujas de South Beach (The Witches of South Beach) (2009)—although I could tell from the description that this was going to be shot in South Beach, I couldn't tell whether it would take place in 16th century Spain or in South Beach
If anyone has any further information about these two productions and believes their inclusion is merited, please feel free to incorporate them.
allixpeeke (talk) 21:34, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

deleted spam "SoBe 10" section[edit]

I've deleted the following, which is a made-up designation inserted for marketing purposes:

" Collins Avenue runs parallel to Ocean, one block west. It is also State Road A1A. The ten blocks along Collins Avenue, from 15th Street to 24th Street, also known as the SoBe 10 or Power Mile, are considered to be the epicenter of South Beach nightlife and entertainment<ref>http://www.globest.com/news/1900_1900/miami/309421-1.html</ref>. With 36 hotels comprising nearly 6,000 rooms, SoBe 10 is home to world renowned historic Art Deco hotels such as the Royal Palm, the Delano, and The Sagamore, as well as newer modern hotels including The Setai, W South beach and the Gansevoort Miami Beach. The SoBe 10 corridor is home to numerous fine dining establishments, Collins Park, and some of Miami's most popular nightclubs, such as Louis Lounge, Mynt, Wet Bar and The Florida Room."

see http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/17/2221342/does-a-stretch-of-south-beach.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.108.242.37 (talk) 23:45, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Government of South Beach?[edit]

I'm not sure why the infobox in this article has details about elected officials. Isn't "South Beach" just a neighborhood within the City of Miami Beach? South Beach hasn't even got a GNIS entry. How can it have elected officials? Thanks. Magnolia677 (talk) 00:28, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

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Infobox photo size[edit]

An editor has changed the size of the image in the infobox to 350px. This unnecessarily widens the infobox, and overwhelms the lead section with a huge photo. Template:Infobox settlement states that the default size is 250px. I would appreciate the input of others. Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 10:24, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

RfC about infobox photo size[edit]

The consensus is against increasing the infobox photo from 250px to 350px. Some opponents noted that they would be fine with 300px (NoGhost, Staeiou, and Stikkyy), so I am closing this as consensus to increase the infobox photo from 250px to 300px. Cunard (talk) 03:47, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should the infobox photo be increased in size to 350px? Magnolia677 (talk) 15:59, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes. I think 350px is a better size for the photo than 250px for readers. The infobox template documentation states the photp size can be increased.CuriousMind01 (talk) 11:17, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

  • No. Almost certainly not. I can't think of any reason why South Beach, FL would warrant a infobox image wider than all other cities? The image could be easily trimmed to fit the skyline within 300px, the standard max size. --NoGhost (talk) 09:54, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
  • No 350px is very wide, though I'd be fine with 300px. 300px is the max, it lets readers briefly understand what they are seeing, then go further in the article. If you want to present a more detailed picture, that should be left to a full-width panorama in the body like in Miami or Los Angeles. Miami has a 300px width for a composite infobox image of many photos, so I don't see why this infobox should go over 300px. Staeiou (talk) 20:48, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
  • No. The reaction section could have a subsection with the families reaction. This way the reader could see the societal/political effect of the public;s reaction, while at the same time reading about the families reaction. Many people like to skim articles so providing a subsection divider gives people a choice of what they wish to read. In addition, many people use the table of contents near the top of the article so a subdivision of public/family reaction would be useful in this way also.Dean Esmay (talk) 21:17, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
I think you may have responded to the wrong RfC. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:21, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
  • No There really isn't any fine detail inside the infobox image. It's just a view of the South Beach coastline. There really is no reason to increase the image size, but I wouldn't really object to increasing it to 300px. Stikkyy (talk) (contributions) 04:41, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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