Talk:South Ossetia

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Date of indepedence[edit]

Did South Ossetia declare independence on November 28, 1991, as the main Wikipedia article on the country claims, or on September 20, 1990, as is frequently cited in scholarly articles and in this Wikipedia article Georgian-Ossetian_conflict#Origins_of_the_Conflict? It is also worth noting that September 20 appears to be the day chosen by the South Ossetian state as its independence day.

Old citation needed tags[edit]

Should that Roki tunnel one at the end that says that South Ossetia gets a third of it's income from the Roki tunnel also come off?

External links modified[edit]

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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 06:27, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Maps in the History section - NPOV[edit]

There's a problem with the maps in the history section of the article. The latest addition is problematic at least for WP:OR reasons: the provided source only supports the claim that the term "South Ossetia" wasn't used before 1920 and does not support other claims in the caption. There's a bigger WP:NPOV problem with captions of his and [[File:Colton,_G.W._Turkey_In_Asia_And_The_Caucasian_Provinces_Of_Russia._1856_(BB).jpg|one other map] in the article. The caption of the latter map reads:

This is of course true - South Ossetia is not labelled on this map, but to write this and then repeat that before 1920 this name wasn't used is like writing that the name "United States" wasn't used before the late 18th century in the article about the US. Alæxis¿question? 20:04, 3 May 2016 (UTC )

Alæxis not labeling particular map and nonexistence of geographical term at all, are two separate things.--g. balaxaZe 00:10, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Moreover, the last map is more important because it shows artificial creation of South Ossetia on historical regions, showing their respective parts in different colors. (it shows creation, not just modern South Ossetia)--g. balaxaZe 00:21, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
You're writing about 'artificial' creation in 'historical' regions without a source, this is an example of WP:OR. Alæxis¿question? 05:50, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
No, it is also written that by the population of Georgia (not only ethnically Georgians) creation of the SO was artificial, and I agree with this. And yes, this part of Georgia is historical land of the country. This can be proved by many historical monuments of Georgian culture which you can find there, many medieval monuments and settlements. Also, many historical maps prove, that before Russian's policy, there was no single example of existence of another political entity on this part of Georgia.--g. balaxaZe 08:25, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
"Artificialness" is in the eye of the beholder - you say it's artificial and someone else might say it made total sense given the ethic composition of this land at the time of its creation. In these matters we should stick to what reputable sources say, otherwise this is WP:OR and non-neutral POV. For now I'm putting citation tags in the caption. Alæxis¿question? 09:30, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
I am not arguing about artificialness, I just told you that in the article we have sentence Since it was created after the Russian invasion of 1921, South Ossetia was regarded as artificial creation by Georgians during the Soviet era and that I am agree with them (but I didn't change anything due to this). Now about "historical lands" why do you need extra source when it is already clear. Sometimes we have facts which are clear even without written sources. As I told you before, on this part of Georgia in history you won't find any political creation (except Georgians). So historically (you can count centuries) these areas were always Georgian territories.--g. balaxaZe 17:58, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
Regarding the "historical lands", I don't think anyone has come up with a solid and broadly accepted definition of what it is (I myself can think of at least two). I saw words "X is a historical land of Y" much more frequently in propaganda than in academic writing, which is why I believe that we should not use such terms here. Finally, I don't think it adds anything new to the article, it's clear from the history section that modern SO was part of various Georgian entities before the incorporation into Russia. Alæxis¿question? 10:52, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
Your words are true in case of many countries but this world consists some very old nations and statehoods and one of them is Georgia. In case of Georgia "historical lands" mean its simpliest comprehension that this part of the country was under Georgian statehood since one of the first Georgian political entities (e.g. Iberia) and permanently populated by those people who formed modern Georgian nation (Kartlians). Georgians are autochthons of that area. It will be hard or even impossible to argue this. It is a fact and period.--g. balaxaZe 08:04, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Also, before you write false claim, first point your mouse to the line and you will see that using of term South Ossetia starts from 1922 with percentage of 0.0000000122%, in 1921 the same number is just 0 (zero, many zeros).--g. balaxaZe 00:25, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
I never said that the claim is false - my objection is that mentioning it multiple times and framing it the way it was framed amount to POV. Alæxis¿question? 05:50, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Abkhazia infobox RfC[edit]

Farm-Fresh eye.png Due to a similarity in topics, editors here are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Abkhazia#RfC on Infobox. CMD (talk) 13:08, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 09:15, 4 July 2016 (UTC)