Talk:Steak tartare

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject Food and drink (Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
Checklist icon
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject France (Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.


Can cause serious illness or death! Sounds a bit dramatic to me, but I don't know much about policy on these things. Opinions?

Well it's true, so I imagine it should be left in. Suppafly 18:47, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned, all it can cause is serious deliciousness.--Lord Shitzu 20:24, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

I agree delicious! John Doe or Jane Doe 09:33, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

eewww, yuk.. Raw beef with (perhaps raw egg) raw onions ... everything raw?! Nasty! Just watch "The Return Of Mr. Bean" at the restaurant part, Mr. Bean took this "gourmet dish": His facial expression was full of disgust and agony! So Steak Tartare is just a raw hamburger? Who looks at a raw hunk of meat and says "That looks really good, I'm gonna throw a raw egg and some capers on it and eat it."  ?!?!

It's good. And it's ground. Has seasoning. I don't eat it with egg or capers.

anyone know where steak comes from??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:02, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

In the Anglo-saxon world, there is a general aversion against eating raw meat, whileas on the continent it is relatively popular. I remember sitting on a bench in Edinburgh, preparing and a sandwich with filet américain (i.e. raw lean mince), and being looked at by local children as very weird ("You shouldn't eat that!").... LHOON 10:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Uh, the Saxons are Continental. What are you saying?! 03:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah... what continent are you referring to? KenFehling 13:01, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the danger, steak tartare is no more dangerous than a properly cooked steak -- i.e. one that has hung for a good few weeks, is seared briefly on both sides and oozes bloody juices when cut open. This is a 'good steak' in the UK as much as the continent. The reason this works with beef but not chicken or pork is because of beef's general lack of parasites or truly nasty diseases, but of course the meat must be well sourced. I would note that in the UK and Europe a properly cooked burger will also come pink and bloody inside: this is where the flavour's at. I suppose this is why steak tartare is not really an 'uncooked burger' as suggested above. You need to use high quality beef in these products, not the usual offal and fatty meat mix that goes into commercial burgers sold by the US chains and is smothered by ketchup and pickles just to give it flavour. --richiau
This is wrong. Steak seared on both sides kills the harmful bacteria, which lives on the outside of the meat, not on the inside. Grinding beef mixes the bacteria into the meat, so to kill the bacteria, the entire portion of ground beef has to be raised to a certain temperature for a short period of time (coinciding approximately with the point at which it loses its "pink" color). Moreover, unless the slaughtering of the UK cow is a precision science, there is still a statistically significant chance of injecting E. Coli and the beef tapeworm into the mix; it doesn't matter how "high quality" the beef is. Finally, I don't know what "seared briefly" means, but given the otherwise flagrant disregard of one's own health in the UK (see Oral Care, inter alia), I imagine it's something like the five-second rule, except the floor is a grill. 19:31, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
"unless the slaughtering of the UK cow is a precision science,..." Well actually it is. Always. We're incredibly strict on slaughterhouse practice in the UK, and for good reason too. Every carcass is thoroughly inspected for disease by a vet, who also supervises the whole process. Our slaughterhouses are probably cleaner than our operating theatres. IMO raw steak would be a very low risk source of food poisoning. The raw egg yolk that goes in it would probably carry more risk, but both are probably far safer than the tea-towel you use at home to dry your cereal bowl. Traveller palm (talk) 18:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
I just love the irony of being lectured on health issues by an American on the Fourth of July. Please remind me what the percentage level of obesity is in the States right now. Thanks. 17:08, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I just love how your mentioning the Fourth of July is irrelevant and yet not unexpected, given a pattern of your sloppy logic and dubious facts from above. Also, I don't know what the "percentage level of obesity" is right now, but if it's lower in the UK, perhaps that's because the inclination to eat drops severely after all your teeth have fallen out at an early age. ;) 17:52, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I think you've got your users mixed up. I made the comment about "briefly searing" above, but not the comment about obesity, an ad hominem comment which is off topic to boot. I don't understand your comments about dentistry, however; they seem somewhat removed from the question of steak. Anyway, I've happily eaten steak tatare all my life (and have lovely teeth, thanks) and have never had a problem. I've had beef sashimi in Japan and that was delicious and not poisonous too. I've had chicken sashimi too - in the UK and in Japan - and that wasn't bad at all. Raw duck too, come to think of it. Bleeding. Delicious. I think Americans just like to cook meat until its brown, and Europe likes to eat it pink, and perhaps being brought up this way gives us different immune systems and tolerances. My kitchen floor is pretty clean, I'd have no problem eating something that had dropped on it (after blowing any fluff off), however the ideal time to 'sear briefly' would be about 30 seconds each side --richiau
My apologies for the assumption, seemed to be implying they were you by using "lectured" as a term. As I understand it, raw duck is pretty safe, but chicken can carry salmonella and beef definitely can carry either or both the beef tapeworm and e. coli, and I'm not sure about an acquired immunity to either, although there is a vaccine against the latter. Helpful to hear your experience with steak tartare though. It makes me a little more comfortable about trying it. 22:49, 17 July 2007 (UTC) , also

^^ Beef, lacking in parasites? Are you kidding me? Beef is the KING of parasites. Ever heard of the BEEF tapeworm?

Again regarding the danger. This is something which is way exaggerated. I lived in France for a good amount of time and ate a lot of steak tartare. I know live in New York and quite often have gone to French restaurants which serve this dish. I've never fallen ill from bacteria nor have I gotten parasites. I think the danger is exaggerated mainly because Americans are scared by things they don't understand, especially things from Europe and France. You're way more likely to fall ill from improperly cooked poultry or fish than you are from steak tartare.
I think there is way too much fear these days of bacteria and sanitizing everything when in fact, this may be making is more susceptible to bacterial infection. I know I don't try and live in a super sanitary environment and I haven't been ill in any for way over 6 years.

--SamF (talk) 19:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

to say that steak doesn't really have any parasites is saying that bacteria only is in places like bathrooms or door knobs. every animal that lives in nature is exposed to parasites. Parasites have become suited to inhabit animal's bodies. W/o a doubt, raw meat of any kind contains various parasites and bacteria and it is dangerous to assume otherwise. Consumption of raw meat is ill advised from a medical standpoint. You might not die from tapeworm or whipeworm or liver fluke but you certainly will still have it and there are effects on your body. Please think before you speak. Take a parasitology class and come back and say the same stuff. i advise anyone reading this always cook all meat products thoroughly. and I MEAN thoroughly. Many parasites will not die unless they're exposed to extreme conditions like 400deg. heat. They are quite resilient. I would hope your own health is important enough for you to take proper precautions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:53, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

The article says "If basic hygienic rules are followed and fresh meat is used, the risk is low," and gives a reference article. But the referenced article only discusses projecting how many people will get "Shiga toxin e.coli" infection from steak tartare, not all risks of steak tartare.
For toxoplasmosis, it makes no sense to say "If basic hygienic rules are followed and fresh meat is used, the risk is low." To prevent toxoplasmosis, the "Basic hygienic rule" is to COOK THE MEAT.
Please don't assume "If the French do it, it must be healthy." The prevalence of toxoplasmosis in France is high.
Research on the harmful effects of latent toxoplasmosis is in its infancy, but do you want a parasitic cyst in your brain for life? --Robinesque (talk) 20:38, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Jules Verne[edit]

In the book More Misinformation, Tom Burnam writes "Neither the Tartars nor any other Slavic people invented, nor indeed are likely even to know of, the raw chopped and seasoned steak known as tartare or Tartar. It was invented by Jules Verne to add color to his novel Michael Strogoff." However, I've done some searches in the text of that novel (at Project Gutenberg), and I was unable to find any reference to "steak", "beef", "raw", "uncooked", or "egg". (The book is about the Tartars.) Perhaps someone else could give this a better look through to see if Burnam is correct. --ScottAlanHill 18:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Tartar Beefsteak?[edit]

Among Hungarians, at least the Hungarians I know (a lot), we tend to call this dish "Tartar beefsteak"

Obviously not an original hungarian word, so it probably came from another language.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk) 14:59, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

Copyright infringement[edit]

At some point, someone has added a large block of text between the "See also" and "External links" sections. Much of the text was cobbled together from various sources (e.g. [1],[2]), thus forming a probably copyvio. Even if we can use all of the text, the whole thing would need to be rewritten to encyclopedic standards, and I don't think it would add much to what was already in this article (and other parts are more relevant to Tatar). I'm removing the text in question. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 09:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Beef tataki?[edit]

There is currently no article for tataki or beef tataki. But when there is, should there be a link to that article in the "See also" section? There are links to kitfo and gored gored, which both use raw beef. Tataki is lightly seared so I don't know ifthat qualifies as "raw." -- Gyrofrog (talk) 00:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but those are often lightly grilled as well. My father, for instance, always insists on having his kitfo browned just a bit. — ዮም | (Yom) | TalkcontribsEthiopia 04:57, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Some beliefs[edit]

Being form a russian-polish family, Tartar steak is among our favorite dishes. We always serve the meal with horsemeat, which is much more safe than beef when serving raw. It has always been said that traditionally the meal was even served to very young kids to give them strenght, like spinach beliefs among some western civilizations (both have a high amount of iron). I've heard about the saddle statement but never about Jules Verne's one. Might be a bit simpler, Tatar were horseriding all the time, they lived among those animals...and they even ate them. Because the way they lived ? That would make sense when we have to consider the saddle story. About J.V ? Might be very true, few decades before they invaded Russia and that was maybe one among few things they brought back. And who knows, our family beliefs might be all from the French tale. They had to make a story behind the meal after all. One thing is sure, as someone mentionned, it's not slavic.

American filet?[edit]

Who are they kidding!? Nobody in the US would eat this. That's like trying to say Americans eat horse or kangaroo. 22:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Ever see the movie Rock 'n' Roll High School Forever? KenFehling 13:03, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
No. Relevance, your honor? 17:11, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I was born and raised in the United States and I have no problem with the concept of trying steak tartare. In my opinion, it's entirely ignorant to attempt to speak for such a complete diverse nation of peoples. Learn to speak for yourself and not for others and you may have an easier time having your opinion accepted as viable. 03:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)Dorfner

Filet américain, which translates as American fillet is actually the standard name in Belgium for ground steak. This French expression is also used by Dutch speakers in Belgium. I have no idea though where the American connection comes from here. LHOON 14:16, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

In Northern South Dakota German/Russian Communities there is a product sold called Tiger Meat which is sold at local butchers. It is raw ground steak with salt, pepper, onions green pepper garlic and raw egg. According to a butcher at Kesslers in Aberdeen, SD they go through over 1000 pounds a day during the holiday season. I would say that this is proof that Americans have no problem eating Steak Tartar (talk) 18:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

This is indeed stupid to add. It is just a translation of the word "filet américan", for those who want to know what that is in English. It is like translating e.g. LED (light emitting diode) in French.

By the way, the name "Filet Américain" was given to this dish by the Brussels cook who created it, Joseph Niels in 1926. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:12, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Tartar steak[edit]

The real tartar steak is ONLY made of fillet mignon from the horse. Fillet mignon from horse is the only part in horse free of parasites. Beef meat is NEVER used to make steak tartar. North American restaurants use beef but it is wrong... like many things Americans will do due to shallow understanding or lack of culture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs).

All of which is known to you because of your excessive experience in all things North American. Apparently you overlooked the part about shallow North Americans not eating raw ground meat. Horse or otherwise. Tomertalk 23:24, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Yet another blatant display of ignorance from a user who is too much of a coward to sign his or her posts after insulting an entire nation which most likely contains people of his or her culture. Get a grip. 03:39, 4 September 2007 (UTC)Dorfner


"It is also often consumed, especially in Russia, with vodka, which may have a similar effect."

For my as for men who's grand-mother is tatar it's really weird! Tatarstan is in Russian so this statement is really weird (tatars are muslims and definetely don't have any dish for consuming with vodka), and this dish which is called as "Steak tartare" for me is just ammerican oddity, but not a part of tatar's cousine

"The basis of the name is the legend that nomadic Tatar people of the Central Asian steppes did not have time to cook and thus placed meat underneath their horses' saddles."

In fact it results dried meat not raw meat as "Steak tartare" does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Russian recipe?[edit]

Is steak tartare a Russian dish? If so, is the recipe the same as the one presented here? I always thought that this recipe (chopped meat, the egg, etc.) was the French version. In Russian restaurants (outside Russia, I mean) they always give me another variation: not chopped, but very thin (carpaccio stile) blades of meat mixed with pickled Bet in a bowl. Has anyone heard of this? Thank you in advance! The Ogre (talk) 05:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

this dish is not served in Russia (including Tatarstan) and other FSU-countries. Even more the dish from raw meat decsribed in the article contradics to Islamic dietary laws (tatars are muslims) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:24, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
PS I am partially a tatar (I am mixed)
Thanks! That is what I suspected. Further research on sources about this dish are needed for this article. Cheers! The Ogre (talk) 18:10, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

where does regular steak come from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:03, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

. It is also often consumed, especially in Russia, with vodka, which may have a similar effect[citation needed].

no one eats it in Russia nor in Tatarstan

The real origin?[edit]

It is a recipe from France, but its origin is uncertain. Restaurants in paris serve it for more than 300 years, but the name only is derrved from the book Michel Strogoff, where Jules Vernes thinks "Que pouvaient donc bien manger les barbares ennemis de la Russie tsariste après leurs exactions sanguinaires ? De la viande crue, saignante... " After phonetic modification (rhetorists call it metaplasm), "barbare" became "tartare". Also helped with the myth that the tatars / tartars ate raw meat, which they probably did not. (no indications in any writing from that time in east and west).

Note: the tatars were renamed "tartars" by the romans, referring to one of their gods of hell, "tartarus". Guess they must have been hard to fight against.

The part re "filet américain" is NOT fully correct: it is NOT the same recipe, but nowadays, the recipes have mixed a bit. (in the original recipes of steak tartare, there was no sign of worcester sauce or anchovies) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:30, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

None of Gutenberg's copies of Michel Strogoff, English [3] or French [4] [5], contain the "Que pouvaient..." quote. I tried to search for the phrase on Google and got two sites, both in French. Perhaps someone who can read French (or who is willing to suffer through a machine translation) could get to the bottom of this. (talk) 04:42, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

According to "Le livre des grandes aventures", deux coqs d'or, 1978. P.35 "Voyage au royaumne du grand Khan", during the 12th and 13th century, the Mongolian population was known as Tatares in Europe. These people were reknown for their horsemanship abilities and consummed raw horse meat on occasion. Although today, steak tatar is associated with the bovine species, I am pretty sure the original steaks were made of equine meat. [1] Whether this is a fact or not, I think it is important to at least mention this information since many seem to believe this.Koffi Babone (talk) 22:43, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Carpaccio confusion[edit]

Opening paragraph "Tartare can also be made by thinly slicing a high grade of meat such as strip steak..." Surely that's Beef Carpaccio, not steak tartare. Also made with raw steak, ok, but different dish, different page. I think that sentence should be removed. Traveller palm (talk) 18:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

I see that this claim is still not sourced after 3+ years, nor is the claim that it is marinated in wine. I will delete these claims. --Macrakis (talk) 01:36, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Islamic and Jewish dietary laws[edit]

This section seems extremely out of place on this article. I saw a cooking show where this meal was highly rated and so came here to see what it was all about. Seems interesting and I'd like to try it. When reading the islamic/jewish note about raw meat I just couldn't see how it related to Steak Tartare at all. I was confused if it was implying that some islamic/jewish regional areas had a tradition of the dish, but others didn't, but it appears to just be a fairly random insert saying that it was both acceptable and not acceptable according to those beliefs. So do we find every wikipedia page that covers raw food and insert the same paragraph? If there is some islamic/jewish regional version of this meal then perhaps it should just be mentioned in the section above about regional variants, with an extremely small note that the use of raw meat is a religious point of contention. But to give it an entire section on a page specific to one meal just was completely bizarre. I'll leave it to others to decide about the change since I"m unlikely to return to this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reasonwins (talkcontribs) 03:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree, its a bit odd... Fuzbaby (talk) 04:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Insalata di Carne Cruda[edit]

The Italian version, a specialty of Piemonte, is much simpler, but also delicious. The meat, often veal, is minced with a knife, then flavored with olive oil, salt, and a bit of garlic. -- (talk) 15:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Main article in history section...[edit]

Idot, I've removed the "main article" link in the history section, as this link is designed to be used as: "When a Wikipedia article is large, it is often rewritten in summary style. This template is used after the heading of the summary, to link to the sub-article that has been (or will be) summarised." In this case, the Steak tartare article is quite clear that the history of ST is explicitly *not* historically linked to Bastirma, nor does the Bastirma article mention Steak tartare, so it doesn't seem to be a "main article" for the history of steak tartare. If you were concerned that Steak tartare might be confused with bastirma, you might consider a hatnote. Hchc2009 (talk) 05:57, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

if you read carefully both articles, you'll see that Steak tartare based on wrong interpretations of rumors about making Bastirma (Idot (talk) 10:57, 5 July 2012 (UTC))
I can see that the article says that "Although there are many fanciful stories connecting steak tartare..." - is that what you mean? If so, that's the point I'm trying to make: there's little value in redirecting the reader to a "main article" that we're explicitly saying *isn't* about the history of this steak tartare! :) Hchc2009 (talk) 16:37, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Not Minced[edit]

Proper steak tartare is always done from shredded meat not minced. The best way to shred meat is first freeze the piece and then grate it with coarse grater. Linkato1 (talk) 19:21, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Neither ground, chopped, minced, nor shredded. Done correctly, the raw meat should be a smooth paste having no remaining texture at all. An uncut or long piece of chilled but not frozen beef tenderloin, as free as possible of any fat or gristle, is scraped lengthwise, as with the side of a spoon, leaving behind all of the white supporting structure. Since this method is very labor intensive, time consuming and wasteful, it will be extremely expensive wherever it can be found if at all. The image "Steak tartare with raw egg, capers and onions" accompanying the article shows a traditional presentation, but the beef has been simply ground, leaving it coarse and with much white material in the patty. That's just raw hamburger, not steak tatare. Milkunderwood (talk) 03:27, 19 May 2014 (UTC)