Talk:Storm Desmond

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Referencing previous flood events in Cumbria[edit]

The page should reference 2009 Workington floods, 2009 Great Britain and Ireland floods and probably Carmen (storm) but I think those pages need some major cleaning.Lacunae (talk) 21:25, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

I added them to the See also section. Proxima Centauri (talk) 07:57, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Further reaction[edit]

The next edition of New Scientist will likely have something on Storm Desmond but it may be behind a pay wall. Proxima Centauri (talk) 08:00, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Is climate change behind the storm that flooded parts of the UK? It's accessible. Proxima Centauri (talk) 08:06, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

I don't understand why you put these reactions in the article? There's nothing special about the quotes, as many of them just happened to coincide with Desmond rather than being about the storm itself plus there is a climate conference going on at the moment. It seems quite undue and would be much better placed on major articles such as climate of the united kingdom. Jolly Ω Janner 08:17, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

The sources for the 'Reaction' section mostly refer to Storm Desmond. I cut out and summarised the quotes apart from that by Julia Slingo as she is notable enough for her own Wikipedia article. I added a short quote from Liz Truss as she also merits a Wikipedia article. I hope that satisfies objections. Proxima Centauri (talk) 15:30, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Jolly Janner, I think were there a parliamentary debate or parliamentary committee hearing on this, or an academic paper presented on this issue, then it would be appropriate to add. I think so far it is too early, and while Julia Slingo is a notable meteorologist, it is just an opinion so far. She actually said “It’s too early to say definitively whether climate change has made a contribution to the exceptional rainfall." which I don't think matches up with what we have in the article -For example Julia Slingo of the Met Office agrees climate change has not been proved definitively yet as a cause but notes that weather records dating back to the 1800's were broken. which to me can be read with an altered meaning, especially regarding the word cause.Lacunae (talk) 21:59, 8 December 2015 (UTC) The Centre for Ecology and Hydrology state "However, it is not clear to what extent the recent cluster of floods in the north-west is associated with climate change, natural variability or a combination of both. Much of the research in the UK using very long records points to pronounced variability between decades, leading to ‘flood rich’ and ‘flood poor’ periods driven by the NAO and other factors. We simply don’t yet know whether the clustering of recent floods is due to anthropogenic warming or a result of such variability. It is, therefore, hard to attribute any event or cluster of events to anthropogenic climate change using observational records alone." -http://www.ceh.ac.uk/news-and-media/blogs/north-west-floods-hydrological-update so I think the consensus is "we don't know".Lacunae (talk) 23:40, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

If the section is to be tried again, I would advise definitely not using the New Statesman source.Lacunae (talk) 01:13, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for removing Lacunae. Even after a couple of rewrites, I still got the feeling some quotes were being taken out of context to push a POV. Forgive me if I am wrong Proxima, but that's just how it read to me. I'm not opposed to a reactions section (or even one which discusses climate change decisions), but it will take time for substantial reactions to be documented. Jolly Ω Janner 07:19, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Moving Desmond to own article[edit]

Moved from Talk:2015–16 UK and Ireland windstorm season: Lacunae (talk) 15:02, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

It seems likely that Desmond is notable enough for its own article, I'd like editors to consider whether that article should be something along the lines of 2015 Cumbria floods or 2015 UK and Ireland floods to include the antecedent conditions (include ex Tropical cyclone Kate).Lacunae (talk) 17:32, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

I'd go with Storm Desmond; it affects more than just Cumbria, and flooding is only one aspect of the weather event. 'Desmond' is also the WP:COMMONNAME for this subject ("the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources"). Click here to edit the article. Firebrace (talk) 18:45, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
I would stay with Storm Desmond for now. If there is continued flooding until the next storm, then perhaps then I'd suggest a name change. I don't get why the article has been created, as it is currently much shorter than the supposed "summary" offered on this page. I'll wait to see how much it expands by the time it blows over. Jolly Ω Janner 19:15, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
I'm afraid this article—like so many on Wikipedia—is a lost cause. As they say on Dragons' Den, "I'm out". If you want to have four-paragraph "summaries" and put internal links in the external links section, go ahead... Firebrace (talk) 22:53, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
2013 Atlantic hurricane season is an example of a featured article. It contains summaries, which are much longer than the ones in this page (although it uses two large paragraphs rather than four small ones). You may also refer to the comment I left in the article history, which related to policy stating summaries are usually a couple of paragraphs. A single sentence is definitely not a summary. Also, if you are referring to this edit then I think it's pretty well established for navigation boxes to be at the bottom of articles. Jolly Ω Janner 23:06, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

"PERILS said that while so far it has not decided whether to classify Desmond as officially under investigation, if it does so it is currently more likely to be as a UK flood event, rather than wind."http://www.artemis.bm/blog/2015/12/07/perils-looks-into-storm-desmond-investigates-windstorm-nils-clodagh/ (even if they do incorrectly equate Helga and Desmond/Ted).Lacunae (talk) 15:04, 8 December 2015 (UTC)