Talk:Sultanate of Rum

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Greek court language[edit]

Greek never was a part of the languages of the sultanate. The sultans spoke many different languages wit different hosts for example greek. Just like it was in the Ottoman Empire. It doesn't make sense to add only greek when there were many more languages. Gala19000 (talk) 09:59, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

By the way. Greek never was the court language of the Seljuk sultanate. It was persian wich was always used. Only some sultans learned greek and spoke greak with greek hosts. Gala19000 (talk) 15:18, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Andrew Peacock and Sara Nur Yildiz, The Seljuks of Anatolia: Court and Society in the Medieval Middle East, (I.B. Tauris, 2013), 130;"Firstly, at the time the Persian language, along with its official and cultural status in the Seljuk society, was used as the primary language of communication between the sultan and his servants. Secondly, the sultan communicated with his Greek hosts in Greek.."
  • "Greek never was a part of the languages of the sultanate."
Clearly the usage of Greek in court proves differently.
"however, we have some evidence indicating that Greek was far from alien from them[Seljuks]. Indeed, starting at the end of the eleventh century, the usual destination of a refugee Seljuk sovereign or nobleman was Byzantium. Thus we may pose the question as to which language these noble refugees used to communicate with the Byzantine Greeks. Neither Byzantine nor Seljuk sources, in the extensive account of the life of the refugee sultans in Constantinople, mention the use of interpreters between the emperor and the sultan. This is probably because the refugee sultans spoke Greek." Peacock, Yildiz, page 130.
"Versifying in Greek was thus not a bizarre caprice of two men of genius but, when place in its context, rather indicates the interest of Muslim elite in the Greek language and the lattter's prevalence in Seljuk Anatolia.", Peacock, Yildiz, page 133.
"Ibn Bibi iforms us that the draft copy of the peace treaty between 'Izz al-Din I and the Grand Komenenos Alexios I was compiled by the sultan's nutaran, that is the Greek secretaries of the chancery. The official use of the Greek language by the Seljuk chancery is well known.", Peacock, Yildiz, page 132.
  • "It doesn't make sense to add only greek when there were many more languages."
And I see you have brought no sources to support your opinion(s). --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:19, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
Adding a source to prove that it was not a part of the court is a bit hard to do when it has no point as Persian was the official language of not just the court, but also of the Sultanate and many other anatolian states close to the Seljuks. Addaing the 'Greek' language doesn't make sence as that wasn't thh official language that was used in the Sultanate. There were also Armenians in the eas (later under control for a part by the Georgian kingdom) wich doesn't mean that armenian was a part of it. Maybe a other languages article for the Seljuk sultanate should be made just like for the Ottomans. Otherwise it realy doesn't make sense to add just one of tr many languages that was used in the state. Gala19000 (talk) 15:36, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
Do you a have a reliable source supporting your claim? Macedonian, a Greek (talk) 16:11, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
Yes, what read the article of the Seljuk dynasty better and you will see. Or even better, read some history books about the Seljuks self. Gala19000 (talk) 16:20, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
Rather hypocritical statement, especially when it was clearly proven that Greek was used by the Seljuks in their court and chancery. You are beginning to sound like you just don't like the word Greek. Also, your strawman argument that Greek wasn't the official language is redundant seeing how Greek was not presented as an official language nor was it listed as such, being listed as "court". With the added information "chancery" can now be added. As for the "Seljuks using other languages", if you can provide a reliable published source that shows "these other languages" were used extensively by the Seljuks then do so. Empty comments mean nothing. --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:02, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
Don't like the word Greek. Oh please believe me, if I realy would I would have changed many things on the Ottoman article. Just saying that the Seljuks just like the Ottomans used manu different languages like dozens of other Empires in the past. Gala19000 (talk) 17:20, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Being able to speak with Greeks doesn't mean it has any official status. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:05, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

As usual another "anonymous user" with no sources. Here are two sources, which I am sure you will ignore completely.
  • Byzantium in the Near East: its relations with the Seljuk sultanate of Rum in Asia Minor, the Armenians of Cilicia and the Mongols, A.D. c.1192-1237, Alexēs G. K. Savvidēs, page 139, " ...proved that the Greek language was an official tool of diplomacy not only in Seljuk but also in Ottoman times.."
  • The Seljuks of Anatolia, A.C.S. Peacock and Sara Nur Yildiz, page 132, "The official use of the Greek language by the Seljuk chancery is well known".
I would suggest you go read some books by academics. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:23, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.