Talk:Sunderland

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Former featured article candidateSunderland is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 21, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
January 20, 2007Featured article candidateNot promoted
March 6, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
May 26, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
May 30, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former featured article candidate
edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Sunderland:


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Anglo-Saxon etymology[edit]

(Now deleted.) No infinitive soender is currently listed in ang.wiktionary. 99.237.143.219 (talk) 17:22, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

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External links modified[edit]

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Population of Sunderland[edit]

The population of Sunderland in this article is wrong, Sunderland takes in the area of Washington which is part of the city of Sunderland. Therefore the total population of the city is 275,506 and not 174,286. Please can this be changed as it is providing a lot of problems and having adverse effects for the City.

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.195.42.197 (talk) 17:02, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Your right, the City of Sunderland has a population of 275,506. However, this article is about the 'core settlement' of Sunderland if that's a good way to describe it, the former county borough or modern day ONS Urban Subdivision (USD). Yes, I guess the population figure could be changed as it's the wider borough that's been given city status, rather than just USD that this article is about. Although, locals wouldn't really consider places like Washington, Houghton le Spring etc as part of the settlement itself especially due to greenbelt and the A19 being between these settlements, but obviously they are part of the wider city. I guess there are two definitions for Sunderland.--2.26.154.4 (talk) 15:06, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Why is the title of this page "Sunderland, Tyne and Wear"?[edit]

Why not just "Sunderland"

The Newcastle Upon Tyne page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_upon_Tyne) doesn't have the defunct county name in its title.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.221.56.150 (talk) 20:34, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Because there is no primary meaning for Sunderland without a disambiguator, see Sunderland for the possible uses for the word. Keith D (talk) 23:06, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
The problem is caused by the conflict between City of Sunderland, which is about the modern city (originally the Metropolitan Borough of Sunderland, which gained city status in 1992), and Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, which is about the former County Borough of Sunderland (one of the four components that were amalgamated to form the Metropolitan Borough of Sunderland), which still has a distinct local identity due to the fact that it is surrounded by Green Belt.
None of the other places called Sunderland has a sizeable population (I think the largest is Sunderland, Massachusetts with 3,684), and all of the other things on the disambiguation page have their own distinct names anyway, so I don't think there is any other justification for not moving this article to Sunderland. There is certainly precedent here - for instance, London is about London, England even though other Londons exist, e.g. London, Ontario.
The only question, then, is how to resolve Sunderland, Tyne and Wear vs City of Sunderland. I can see two main options here:
  1. Merge the articles. However, this would create an imbalance, as Hetton-le-Hole, Houghton-le-Spring, and Washington would still have their own articles, even though they were also amalgamated into the Metropolitan Borough of Sunderland.
  2. Move Sunderland, Tyne and Wear to Sunderland, with the justification that (a) most people who talk about Sunderland are referring to the former County Borough, and (b) most people talking about Washington, Houghton or Hetton would name those places explicitly. I would argue that the most important principle when categorising encyclopaedic information should be to use names and referents that are relatively timeless and widely accepted, which makes local and historical identity more important than local government boundaries, which are frequently changing and not always well understood.
Again, there is precedent here, with the London article existing in addition to Greater London and City of London - and the focus of the former article being on the generally-understood identity-based meaning of London, while the latter two articles go into detail on the current local government arrangements. For instance, the main London article refers to it as the "most populous city of England and the United Kingdom", even though technically the only parts of London with city status are the City of London and the City of Westminster, neither of which is very populous by city standards.
The article already includes a link to Sunderland (disambiguation) at the top. Also, the link to City of Sunderland (also at the top) ensures that people who want that article would not be inconvenienced by the move. I think that this is the best option overall.
This would require an administrator to help with deleting articles so that the necessary moves can take place (delete Sunderland (disambiguation) (the redirection page); move Sunderland --> Sunderland (disambiguation); delete Sunderland (the redirection page that was auto-created by the move); move Sunderland, Tyne and Wear --> Sunderland).
-Spacemartin (talk) 21:54, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Sunderland/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Last edited at 12:21, 15 October 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 07:18, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Sunderland which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:01, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

The discussion may now be found at Talk:Sunderland (disambiguation). – wbm1058 (talk) 21:09, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

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Pronunciation[edit]

@Kbb2: Wouldn't the medial schwa drop be covered by H:IPAE § Note 32.? It seems to me that /ərl/, /ərn/ and /ərm/ in most cases are reduced to syllabic /əl/, /ən/ and /əm/ respectively. For instance, LPD gives the UK pronunciation as /ˈsʌnd ə lənd →-əl ənd/, while CEPD gives only /ˈsʌn.dəl.ənd/. --maczkopeti (talk) 08:47, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

@Maczkopeti: It is covered by that note. My mistake. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 12:02, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Mackem nickname[edit]

It is wrong to say that this name originated as late as the 1980s. I well remember my Dad taking me to a Sunderland-Newcastle derby match in either 1966 or 1967 (when I was 5 years old) and explaining to me on the train (from Newcastle to Seaburn) that the people who supported Sunderland were called, in his words, 'mackems and tackems' which he explained was because they said 'mak' and 'tak' instead of 'make' and 'take'. There was no animosity in this whatsoever and my Dad and Grandad, along with many other Geordies, were in the habit of going to see whichever team was playing at home despite being firm Newcastle supporters. You could argue that shortening this to just 'Mackem' might be more recent, but this shortened form was certainly used in the 1970's. Maybe people from Sunderland didn't embrace it until later... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.173.4.31 (talk) 15:33, 6 March 2019 (UTC)