Talk:Superman

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Former featured article Superman is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
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December 15, 2003 Featured article candidate Promoted
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Current status: Former featured article

Help with a spin off article[edit]

I am currently updating the List of Superman creators so it looks like the one used for Batman's (List of Batman creators). Listing which writers and artist worked on which titles and created which characters etc. Can some Superman fans help.

Infobox Image[edit]

I propose a new image for the infobox, using Alex Ross' image of a classic, iconic Superman. SupermanRoss.png, linked below, is hand painted and of a higher quality than the current image. Articles like Wonder Woman, Joker, Shazam, and Martian Manhunter also currently use high quality portraits in the infobox. I believe SupermanRoss.png accurately shows the character's full costume, as Superman is facing forward in this image. Please let me know what you think. JosephSpiral (talk) 13:37, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Superman by Alex Ross
  • Comment I agree that a "front" image would be better so I support the proposal. Betty Logan (talk) 14:51, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Support The Ross image is more representative, and a better view Argento Surfer (talk) 14:58, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment The cape seems to have been cut. Isn't there an image with the full image instead? Cambalachero (talk) 15:09, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Cambalachero, I've uploaded a newer version showing the full image in which the cape is not cut. JosephSpiral (talk)
The source you've provided for FIle:SupermanRoss.png does not seem accurate. Clicking on the source link does not bring you to the image. You have to be really careful with non-free images because their use is restricted on Wikipedia per WP:NFC. Each use of a non-free image requires a separate, specific non-free rationale be written per WP:NFCC#10c and that the image satisfy all of the criteria listed in WP:NFCCP. Non-free images should also not be used in any of the ways listed in WP:NFC#Unacceptable use. Moving non-free images around within an article could nulify the non-free rationale for one of the images being moved. Many of the images currently being used in the article are non-free and a few such as File:ActionVol2No1.jpg and File:Reign of the Superman.jpg do not seem to satisfy WP:NFCC#8. "ActionVol2No1" also doesn't satisfy WP:NFCC#10c and "Reign of Superman" also doesn't satisfy WP:NFCC#1 which means they can be removed. Removing File:Superman.jpg from the infobox is going to affect it's rationale and might mean that the image can no longer be used per WP:NFCC#3b and NFCC#8. Finally, simply adding boiler plate rationales to non-free images so that they can be used in a particular article is not the way to satisfy NFCC#8 so you have to be a little careful when it comes to licensing. It would be better to try and find free images since they are less restrictions placed upon their use and all that is really needed in a consensus to use the image in an article because there are no copyright issues to worry about. - Marchjuly (talk) 22:18, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
I just saw the source problem and fixed it. Thanks. JosephSpiral (talk) 22:48, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Simply for being a front view rather than a side view, the Ross image better fulfills the requirements for infobox images. (Tangentially, I've never liked him looking off the page.) --Tenebrae (talk) 22:56, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Comment: While I like Ross' work, isn't there another artist we can choose. All of the characters that the OP mentioned in the start are drawn by Ross. There are many talented artists that have drawn Superman over the years. Wikipedia should show some diversity to better reflect the range of artistic styles in DC comics.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 23:31, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

There are other artists to choose from, but in regards to this article, I believe Ross's image is the best I have seen of Superman (it has him looking straight, with the costume in plain view, and represents the classic image of Superman). As for the other articles, I listed those because they were also done by Ross. They also happen to be the very few Ross images I can recall that are in infoboxes. There are probably more Jim Lee images and similar style drawings in infoboxes, and the vast number of infoboxes do not have high quality portraits of a character looking straight ahead with the full costume in plain view. I agree that infoboxes do not need to be filled with Ross images, but I believe this Superman image better fulfills the requirements for the infobox. Also, the current image does not show a full view of the iconic "S". Just my two cents. JosephSpiral (talk)
Perhaps, still some other artists should at least be a part of the discussion.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 12:33, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
Absolutely. Editors are more than welcome to contribute other suggestions. JosephSpiral (talk) 12:50, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Comment: Even though I personally prefer Jim Lee as an artist over Alex Ross (just a matter of personal taste), I think the proposed image of Superman by Alex Ross is a better fit than the current image by Jim Lee for the encyclopedic purposes that the images are meant for. There are three reasons why I think this:

1. The proposed image shows full frontal view of the character, while the current only has a side view of the character.

2. Superman's pose in the proposed image is arguably more iconic than Superman standing on a gargoyle (which is a pose more associated with Batman)

3. The proposed image is three dimensional.

HOWEVER, I do think this discussion would benefit if we had more than two options (the current and the proposed) to choose from. Darkknight2149 (talk) 00:21, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Lead change[edit]

The second sentence of the lead paragraph contains "high school students living in Cleveland, Ohio, in 1933". Why is it necessary to have this in the second sentence? I have yet to see any other comic book article in which the creators' hometown is crammed into the second sentence of the article. This can go in "Publication History". What are editors' thoughts on this? JosephSpiral (talk) 16:25, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree; I have removed it from the lead. It's now only in the Publication history section. —DangerousJXD (talk) 21:55, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Excessive subsections[edit]

On July 10, 2015, four edits made by PraeceptorIP have resulted in several subsections about copyright ownership and contract disputes. The number of subsections are excessive. Is it not possible to group these subsections to make them significantly fewer in number? What are editors' thoughts on this? JosephSpiral (talk) 15:34, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

@JS - The reason I put in the subsections was that it was very hard--almost impossible--to follow the material in the article the way it was in one long paragraph. I think it is more readable and easier to follow conceptually when broken up into pieces identified by tags (subheads). I did not want to delete somebody else's content, so I just made it more digestable. -- PraeceptorIP (talk) 19:51, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

PraeceptorIP, how about grouping the subsections up a bit more? Perhaps by decade, or something along those lines? JosephSpiral (talk) 14:20, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

@JS - But they are pretty much by decade now, except where two suits in the same decade are over radically different claims. PraeceptorIP (talk) 15:44, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Seduction of the Innocent[edit]

There is no discussion (or cross-reference) to Fredric Wertham. 00:19, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

video games[edit]

As far as I know, the Atari 2600 Superman was commercially successful. It's not hard to play, and it has a certain silly charm. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 00:23, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Use of "File:ActionVol2No1.jpg"[edit]

As I tried to explain above in Talk:Superman#Infobox Image, there are restrictions placed upon how and where a non-free image such as File:ActionVol2No1.jpg can be used in Wikipedia articles. Images licensed as non-free need to satisfy all 10 of the criteria listed at WP:NFCCP for each usage. This includes WP:NFCC#10c which requires that a separate, specific non-free use rationale for each use. This file does not have such a rationale so it can be removed per WP:NFCCE. It would seem that all that is needed is to simply add the necessary rationale, but things are not always so simple and adding a "boiler plate" rationale is not really a valid solution.

Since the image is not being used as the primary means of identification (i.e., in the infobox) of the subject matter, the "contextual significance" required by WP:NFCC#8 is harder to satisfy per WP:NFC#Meeting the contextual significance criterion. Simply using the image because it looks good (i.e., purely decorative reasons) is not something really considered essential to the reader's understanding to the degree that removal the image would be detrimental to that understanding. Rather, the image itself needs to be discussed within the article (supported by reliable sources per WP:NOR) in such a way that makes seeing the image actually matter. Comic book covers are not all that different from album covers when it comes to satisfying NFCC#8. Non-free use for an album cover is fairly easy to justify in a stand-alone article about the album itself, but much much harder to justify in an article about the artist/band who released the album, musicians who played on the album, or discography-like list articles, etc. The same reasoning applies to this article. It's simply not enough for a non-free image to show a depiction of Superman, especially when there are already multiple images being used for that purpose in the article. The image has to be something that really helps the reader understand the subject of Superman in such a way that cannot be expressed by text alone. - Marchjuly (talk) 04:55, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 5 external links on Superman. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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N Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 16:04, 27 August 2015 (UTC)