Talk:Superman Returns

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Good article Superman Returns has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

References to use[edit]

Please add to the list references that can be used for the film article.
  • Booker, M. Keith (2007). "The Superman film franchise". May Contain Graphic Material: Comic Books, Graphic Novels, and Film. Praeger. ISBN 978-0-275-99386-3. 
  • Cargal, Timothy B. (2007). "Dialogues with Two Superheroes—Spider-Man and Superman Returns". Hearing a Film, Seeing a Sermon: Preaching and Popular Movies. Westminster John Knox Press. pp. 103–116. ISBN 978-0-664-22951-1. 
  • Toh, Justine (2009). "'People have had enough tragedy': The spectacle of global heroism in Superman Returns". The War on Terror and American Popular Culture: September 11 and Beyond. Fairleigh Dickinson University Press. ISBN 978-0-8386-4207-8. 

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Superman Returns/GA4. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
References

<ref>[[John Ottman]], ''Requiem for Mutants: The Score of X2'', 2003, [[20th Century Fox]]</ref>

  • Does not use a citation template
 Done Wildroot (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Try adding some of the books in further reading as references.
  • The further reading should be in the alphabetical order by author's surname.
 Done Wildroot (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
Lead
  • Try not to start sentences with however.
  • Lead contains information that is not in the body (such as D.C Comics)
  • The word reboot is an odd word; colloquial/industry term? needs clarification
 Done I don't think it's necessary to mention D.C. Comics in the article body. Wildroot (talk) 06:14, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
Plot
  • The plot seems a little too long. The plot should briefly tell the summary of the movie, not the entire movie.
Agreed. It's kinda long. I'll make sure it will meet the style guideline requirements (between 400 and 700 words). Wildroot (talk)
  • In the plot, I think more context would help; I appreciate it is a sequel etc, but a little bit of background would help; at present, it assumes lots of knowledge. For users who nothing about Superman, they need to know, who is Superman, who is Kent, who is Louis, etc?
  • Maybe even a brief resume of the story-so-far would help
These comments contradict your first concern with the Plot, which you argue is already too long (which I agree). Wildroot (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 Done Wildroot did it.
Cast
  • One of the characters in the plot is missing a bullet. If you are going to put bullets for characters, put it for all of them.
Not every single supporting, insignificant role has to be covered with a bullet. Wildroot (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
It is better if you keep it consistent. Having all of the characters in one sentence bullets, and then having one character with a paragraph and no bullet makes the last one stand out too much. warrior4321 00:32, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Cast is pretty confusing, e.g. "Brandon Routh as Clark Kent / Superman: Stephan Bender portrays teenage Clark Kent..."
 Done Wildroot (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Cast might actually be better in prose-form, or at least partly
 Done Wildroot (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

There are too many one or two line paragraphs. warrior4321 20:59, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Links
  • Links to disambigs: heist, continental, Colgate
 Done Wildroot (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
  • check for overlinking; e.g. in "design and effects", "computer-generated imagery" is wikilinked twice in same paragraph
 Done Wildroot (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
Prose

"McG was signed to direct with a script by J. J. Abrams. A target June 2006 theatrical release date was put in motion. However, McG dropped out in June 2004."

How about "McG was signed to direct with a script by J.J. Abrams, but McG dropped out. Nonetheless, a target theatrical release date of June 2006 was created"?
 Done Wildroot (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
Additional Info

Take a look at Star Trek: The Motion Picture

  • Any info about spin-offs, marketing, toys, promotional tie-ins?
 Done
  • Some information about the video game should be included
 Done
  • Information about the sound effects
Not relevant for this movie.
  • Information about the DVD release
 Done

I am placing the article on hold for now. Please address these problems for the article to pass. Thanks. warrior4321 02:50, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, but you must recognize that this is only a GA review. Your concerns with Additional Info and "Try adding some of the books in further reading as references" would be addressed seriously in a Featured Article review and are not required for a Good article with 71 references. I will finish addressing the rest of the concerns today, as well information about the DVD release. Wildroot (talk) 17:21, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

It's been 10 days since this GA review was put on hold, and I see attempts going to address any of the concerns I noted out to be going very slowly. If by Friday, I do not see proper improvement to this article, I will have to fail this GA nomination. If you are going to nominate an article and want it to pass, at least be ready to fix the problems, the reviewer suggests. Sure, some of my comments are for passing an FA article, but a lot isn't. I will this is more than fair, if you feel it isn't, take this to WP:GAR. As well, I am reviewing a few other articles at the same time, and cannot keep tracks of edits which are addressing the concerns. If anything from my review has been addressed, please place a * {{done}} underneath my comment. warrior4321 00:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Igordebraga addressed a lot of your concerns. I am not sure if you noticed. Anyway, sorry for the pushed-back timing. I think I can get this finished by Friday. Cheers.Wildroot (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Put other {{done}} tags where they weren't, even though it was fixed. igordebraga 16:17, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Since everything is fixed, I will now pass this article. Congratulations and well done! warrior4321 23:39, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Loopholes?[edit]

1.) How did Superman know Jason was his son? 2.) How did Luthor grow so much landmass from such few crystals? 3.) How did Lois Lane, getting directions from the energy company(or some other source about the blackout) end up getting into Luthor's yacht? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.105.37.169 (talk) 06:21, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Not a forum, but...
1) Lois visits him in the hospital and whispers something in his ear.
2) The crystals manipulate the minerals around them.
3) The yacht was docked next to the mansion that she went to.
So, not really plot holes and not really relevant to this article even if they were. DonQuixote (talk) 03:41, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
It grows from reaction with water, not minerals. Also, a minute shaving was tested in the pool on the railroad model in the basement. Ncsr11 (talk) 19:52, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Inaccuracy in the plot?[edit]

Having just seen the movie, I spotted a possible inaccuracy in the plot, where it states: "With Superman distracted by a bank robbery, Luthor steals Kryptonite from the Metropolis Museum of Natural History"

At least in the Italian version I have seen, Superman is distracted by Kitty, Lutor's henchwoman, driving an out-of-control car in the middle of Metropolis, not by a bank robbery. After being rescued, Kitty even lures Superman into bringing her to the hospital and tries to seduce him in order to give more time to Lutor to steal the Kryptonite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cosmos1972 (talkcontribs) 22:52, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

It's the scene when the robbers go to the roof of the bank and turn on the chain gun and Superman gets shot in the eye. He was distracted by a few things that night. 129.139.1.68 (talk) 14:21, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


Also, "Seeing the effect of a Kryptonite sample on Jason..." What effects? The Kryptonite didn't affect Jason. ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.139.1.68 (talk) 15:01, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Any comments on this? If not, I say remove it.129.139.1.68 (talk) 19:15, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Novelization[edit]

I read the novelization by Marv Woflman hoping it would expand on certain plot points (and since it was in the bargain bin). It includes quite a lot of exposition about how his parents sent him away as a child and the possibility that they could have been wrong about the destruction of Krypton or perhaps that some may have survived. It talks about the history and architecture/landscape of Krypton which is then reiterated when superman sees Krypton, particular not is made of a place called "the Valley of the Elders". Skipping ahead for a moment a lot of this detail comes up again as the crystal continent Luthor creates is said to look just like the Fortress of Solitude and the Valley of Elders. It is made clear that Luthor and a scientist in his group planted information about Krypton in the newspapers to trick Superman into leaving, hoping/believing it would kill him (they somehow knew planet having turned to poisonous Kryptonite I think, but it was a bit vague).

The robbery with the huge machine gun was planned anonymously by Lex Luthor and given to a gang of criminals, who stuck around and fired the gun rather than escaping immediately in the helicopter because they had followed the plan and it had worked so well up to that point. It was also scheduled at the same time as Kitty losing control of her car to provide further distraction from the museum robbery. I'm not sure the film made the Luthor connection to this robbery or that all three happened at the same time all that clear. A brief mention is made about Lex's grandfather Alex building up Lexcorp grabbing the best scientists of the Third Reich only to have his father who was ambitious enough but not smart enough (like Luthor) bring the company to bankruptcy leaving only a few million to get Lex started.

The novelization has both Richard and Jason note that Clark "looks a bit like" ... before they are cut off but I think that happens in the film too. Clark notes that Richard looks a bit like Superman, which I don't think was mentioned in the film, it isn't spoken dialog in the book either. The parentage of Jason is left much more vague and no mention is made about Jason reacting to the Kryptonite and I think the scene where he plays piano on the yacht is different but I'd have to watch the film again. When he is in hospital Lois does tell superman she has something she needs to tell him but I don't think she actually whispers anything in his ear. When Superman throws the Kryptonite continent into space it is said to stop between Mars and Jupiter and keep growing to form a new planet, which (in a scene before she goes to the hospital) the daily planet dubs "New Krypton" at the suggestion of Lois. I'm pretty sure this wasn't mentioned in the film. (I see New Krypton is mentioned in relation to the mooted sequel.)

If someone is interested in incorporating some or any of this into a short Novelization section in the article and would like me to double check anything and provide specific page references please let me know. (This isn't an indefinite offer, but for the month of November at least.) -- Horkana (talk) 18:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Thing is, that's the novelization of the movie, not the movie itself. In the novelization of Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace, it mentions that upon surfacing from the water in the bongo, the Jedi have to quickly get to shore before the bongo is swept down a waterfall. Yet that's not in the movie itself. So the article for that movie doesn't include that that happened (although it was a deleted scene that is on the DVD). Furthermore, movie articles, per WP:FILM, are not to have a section with the novelization of the movie, and frankly, I don't see the novelization as being notable enough to have its own article. Anakinjmt (talk) 18:26, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
WP:FILM guidelines mentions films based on books but says nothing about novelisations one way or the other. Certainly it doesn't exclude an article from having a short section mentioning the novel, anymore than it excludes video games which are not yet mentioned, they're just guidelines.
I realise of course novelizations are different from the film, and the rush to have them ready at the same time as the film will result in differences which aren't generally notable. They can still be useful to confirm ideas that might otherwise seem weak or like speculation (e.g. New Krypton), and larger fundamental differences could potentially be notable and perhaps prompt an editor to write about alternative endings or different versions of the scripts even if they don't directly talk about the novelisation.
It would seem as if no one is interested in the novelisation - no surprise there, I got it from the bargain bin - but I may still go back and try to add a very short paragraph on it myself or simply use it to strengthen the references of existing parts of the article. -- Horkana (talk) 02:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Singer's current thoughts on the film[edit]

Think this new article which Bryan Singer tell his theory as to why the film wasn't a success will help out some. Sarujo (talk) 06:13, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Random notations[edit]

There is a baseball in the portrait of the two dogs that has a vague conection to the scene where Clark throws a basesball for his own dog. Clark throws the ball too far most likely due to being away from the yellow sun of the Solar System for five years and crashing at night. The sun has not risen and is still below the horizon, yet Clark underestimates his recovery time due to the yellow sun's energy, even on the night-time side.

Another connection is during Luther's reference to Prometheus, when he mentions the value of sharp objects in prison. Later, when the kryptonite is being shaped in to an implosion tamper for the crystal, there is a left over sharp shard of kryptonite which Luther pockets, much in the fashion of shop workers inside a prison. Ncsr11 (talk) 19:43, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Location of Daily Planet[edit]

If someone is capable of pinpointing the exact location of the Daily Planet Building, it might be helpful. My own calculations veiwing towards the downtown in a south-southwest direction is somewhere near West Broadway and Duane. Or, it could be the Empire Building just north of the Tweed Building. Ncsr11 (talk) 18:35, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Bogus citation[edit]

Re "glum, lackluster movie in which even the big effects sequences seem dutiful instead of exhilarating. Brandon Routh lacks charisma as Superman, and was probably cast in the role only because he physically resembles Christopher Reeve. Proof of this is the fact that Routh hardly speaks when donning the costume." This statement is attributed to Roger Ebert, but the reference cited does not have this statement, nor anything remotely close. In fact, the statement, "Proof of this is the fact that Routh hardly speaks when donning the costume," doesn't even make sense. Googling the statement yields only a few sites with duplicates of this article.

Please delete that statement, or find proof that Ebert wrote this.184.147.123.32 (talk) 06:39, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Ebert was being paraphrased in the first quote so I have replaced it with direct quotes. I have removed the second quote "Proof of this..." since no version of this appears at all in the review, and seems to have been an interjection by another editor. Betty Logan (talk) 11:40, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Old Quote Clarification[edit]

In regards to my edit today removing the quote "a neglected gem in the comic book movie genre", that was a quote that i believe was originally in the Indiawire article's picture caption, but was removed in a later edit of said article. Evidence of this can be seen here: www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/comicscontinuum/news/?a=52871

The additional changes were made for grammatical reasons and mostly use the language spoken in the video essay or the accompanying review. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.73.171.116 (talk) 05:32, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Tristan Lake Leabu[edit]

Please note that Tristan Lake Leabu is credited in the film as "Jason White", not "Jason Kent". The actor should be credited with the name he has in the film. His biological father in the film has no bearing on his credited name, and Wikipedia should respect that. Betty Logan (talk) 22:10, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Budget changes[edit]

There have been a recent spate of unsourced changes to the budget as in this edit. The budget section clearly explains the source of these figures and provides references, and explains that the larger figure $263 million) incorporates development costs from earlier aborted projects; as such these are are not actual part of the production cost of this film. If any editors have further information in relation to these figures then please discuss it here rather than just changing the figures to unsourced amounts. Betty Logan (talk) 23:17, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Turkish Superman Returns[edit]

There was a Turkish knock off of Superman called Superman Returns. There should be mention of that. 161.185.160.23 (talk) 20:34, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

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