Talk:Swing (jazz performance style)

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Dead Reference[edit]

Reference #5 is a dead link. We need another reference, or to delete that sentence, which doesn't really seem to fit in that paragraph.—Preceding unsigned comment added by FelisSchrödingeris (talkcontribs)

Reference numbers can change, but I assume you are referring to the typepad one, which I have deleted. Dead links can be removed on sight.--Shantavira|feed me 07:48, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Rosanna shuffle[edit]

Congratulations to those involved in improvements to this area since I was last here! I took a Wikibreak from this particular article cluster, having failed to resolve a couple of key issues. In my absence the key points seem to have been resolved. Good stuff.

There's still a lot to do. What brought me back though is a minor point: Rosanna shuffle currently redirects here, following a merge of the material previously there to this article. Swung note was also somehow involved, I haven't dredged the history to see how.

Is this really within the scope of this particular article? See Talk:Swung note#Merge: Rosanna shuffle for some other thoughts. Andrewa (talk) 02:10, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Is this particular section really relevant? It's seems a tad specific for an article on a very broad spectrum of music. (talk) 19:41, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
I think it would be more relevant in Rosanna (song) than here. I think it should also discuss Porcaro's earlier work with Boz Scaggs, which often included similar shuffles ("Lido Shuffle", "Jojo", etc.) FiredanceThroughTheNight (talk) 04:39, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

I agree. Perhaps the Rosanna Shuffle could be included (along with the Zeppelin song and others) in a list of examples of popular rock songs that use swing or something. But it certainly does not merit its own detailed section in an article about swing. I'm removing the section. (talk) 23:56, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Swing is not the same as 12/8[edit]

This article perpetuates the myth that "swing" is the same as 12/8. This is a gross oversimplification, and in many cases, it's simply false. This is a concept that leads to stilted and constrained music that utterly fails to swing. Swing feel cannot be reduced to a single mathematical ratio, as the ratio varies greatly according to style, and it varies especially with tempo. Although some aspects of swing may yield to mathematical analysis, the oversimplification presented in this article is just to simplified to have any real validity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. I've removed the statement. (talk) 23:54, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Swing in the United States in the 1990s[edit]

Is this section a joke? "During the 1990s, the social aspect of having individuality and identity was growing significantly in the United States." - really? This is one of the most absurd things I've read on Wikipedia. It reads like it was written by a 12 year old. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1003:B45B:F940:4D9:811B:24C1:36D0 (talk) 02:54, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. I removed the section. Even if the info were accurate, it would be about a cultural movement having nothing to do with swing as rhythmic technique or feel in music. (talk) 01:05, 8 March 2017 (UTC)


I strongly disagree with the said sentence defining shuffle rhythm: "The first note of each of these pairs is often understood to be twice as long as the second, implying a quarter note-eighth note triplet feel, but in practice the difference is rarely that pronounced." What? Actually, the difference is really often that pronounced! As I'm educated musician in jazz, I have to say, in really many cases it can be perfectly heard as rhythm ratio 2:1 of eighth notes (=triplets). And many well educated musicians would say, that shuffle rhythm is made by perfect triplets.

Therefore, I also disagree with the used symbol of approximation () for ratio 3:2 named as "shuffle" or "swing". At first, it's necessary to name it "LIGHT swing", "LIGHT shuffle" because the "medium swing" (=ratio 2:1, triplets) is actually the perfect shuffle rhythm so the ratio 2:1 is a way more appropiate to name it as "(medium) shuffle", "(medium) swing" with the word "medium" in the brackets or simply not used. And- at second, that approximation symbol () should be moved to ratio 2:1 or deleted, because we really can't say, that the 3:2 ratio approximation for swing rhythm is the best of theese given in the section "Types".

--Elda Trnimir 20:59, 19 October 2016 (CET) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elda Trnimir (talkcontribs)

Good point. I've added the "approximately equal" symbol to all the given ratios. (talk) 07:51, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Equivocal definition of swing[edit]

There seems to be a conflict between the lede and the bulk of the article in that the lede refers to swing in an amorphous, colloquial sense of "this music really swings," whereas much of the article is about swing as a very specific rhythmic technique (i.e., alternation between lengthened and shortened pulse-divisions). The lede is also overly long (for a lede). I suggest that the lede be shortened overall and also modified so that both senses of the word "swing" are addressed. (talk) 01:10, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Update: I've done some revisions and reorganization that, in my opinion, make the article clearer, less bloated, and less redundant. (talk) 03:21, 8 March 2017 (UTC)