Talk:System of a Down

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Heavy metal/experimental metal[edit]

No. SOAD is definitely metal. Just listen to some of their songs, like Sugar, BYOB, and War, just to name a few. Those aren't rock. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sethkarlthomas2000 (talkcontribs) 00:52, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Try listening to an actual metal band or two, then come back and listen to those 'metal' tracks by System of A Massive Pop Culture Cash-in. Then let us know what you think — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:32, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Nu metal revisited[edit]

I propose that nu metal be placed in the infobox parameter for genre, and the hidden note removed, the one that says don't put nu metal here.

I can see in talk archive 7 that a lot of discussion covered this question, but one of the most insistent editors was a sockpuppet of Sugar Bear, and in any case the evidence against nu metal was not very strong. I can find a lot of reliable sources saying SOAD was nu metal, but the ones that say SOAD was not nu metal are largely discussion forums and less reliable. Binksternet (talk) 16:59, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

SOAD lack almost every characteristic used to classify nu metal groups. The chorus of BYOB is about as close as they come. There were several noted music critics, as well as the band themselves, who dispute the fly-by labeling of others. - Floydian τ ¢ 17:14, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
The band's own opinion is worthless in this discussion. A passing mention of their opinion is certainly worthy of the article but it should not affect how we treat the critical reviews.
What I'm after here is a comparison of the sources that affirm nu metal versus the sources that deny nu metal, to get a sense of comparative authority. I bet we will find more weight on the nu metal side than the denial side. Binksternet (talk) 17:24, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

They don't have any hip hop (actual hip hop not just fast singing) industrial or funk influences, the only thing they have in common with nu metal is that murky downtuned guitar sound, so it makes more sense to just classify them as the parent genre of nu metal (alternative metal). That at least implies their genre is related to nu metal. Opinion aside there are a lot of reliable sources that oppose the idea of SOAD being nu metal so surely that counters the one that say they are. --I call the big one bitey (talk) 17:50, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

And what's interesting is that I haven't ever encountered a band who's genre is so contentious to the point that big music critics take time to insist that they are NOT nu metal. It's one thing to say "6 sources say nu metal, the other 5 don't", but it's completely different if its "6 sources say nu metal, but 4 sources specifically discount that". I think the discounting of a genre holds more weight than the application of a genre, personally. - Floydian τ ¢ 23:36, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Come on, if you can ignore consensus on Mudvayne, which is clearly progressive metal and not nu-metal, you can ignore consensus on System of a Down, since SOAD made music which actually sounds like nu-metal. (talk) 21:48, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
It doesn't matter about our own opinions as genre is subjective. What we need is sources discussing how they do or do not fit in the genre. If it's a very mixed response about whether or not they belong to a genre or movement (in this case, nu-metal) that material should still be included in the prose. Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:36, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
Oh, come on, you wouldn't be claiming System of a Down isn't nu-metal if you didn't have a strong opinion that they're not nu-metal. There's a "consensus" here clearly based on opinion. (talk) 00:29, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Regardless of any consensus. You require sources backing your claim first. Andrzejbanas (talk) 10:40, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

The consensus is and remains by reliable sources and by us editors that SOAD is NOT nu metal. It merits mention in the article, not in the infobox genre. - Floydian τ ¢ 19:54, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
Oh, bullshit. All this amounts to is that Wikipedia can distort reality to the whim of the editors' opinions and not actually work with reality, but against it. (talk) 21:11, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
Provide reliable sources claiming that they're nu metal if you wish editors to seriously consider including this in the infobox. ~ RobTalk 22:31, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
Not that this in favour, but this published book has a better case for them not being nu metal more than being for it: here. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:05, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
I can't read the Google preview, which says it's not available. What does the book say? JuggaloProghead (talk) 22:52, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
""Althought System Of A Down weren't a nu-metal band - their music had its own, unique identity and they didn't use rapping or a DJ - they were lumped in with that movement because they departed so radically from the template, despite being recognisably a metal act." Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:36, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
There was a consensus against including nu metal made a long time ago. Nu metal is a subgenre of alternative metal and therefore not adding nu metal is fine since alternative metal is in the infobox's genre field. Statik N (talk) 00:58, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Genre proposal to avoid WP:OVERKILL[edit]

I propose we add something like Deftones has in their article to avoid making such a mess out of the genres. I do notice it's getting messy down there. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 17:35, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Could you elaborate on whats been done at Deftones? -- ferret (talk) 17:41, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
They put a note template at the end of all the genres in the body, and all the citations at the end of them were put in another section labeled "notes". More specifically, Deftones#Musical style and influences and Deftones#Notes. The section here really is over the top. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 22:36, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
The genres were rather stable for the better part of half a decade. In the past year the list has been rather wonky. I removed one (nu metal) that still hasn't reached consensus, and a second (thrash metal) that was never discussed what-so-ever. - Floydian τ ¢ 04:29, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
Nu metal is so completely supported that I think it should stay. Band opinion does not trump others. Yes, I'm aware that some sources say they're not nu metal, but there are far more that say they are, I'd think. Thrash seems like a bad idea seeming how weakly represented it is, as is progressive metal. This is not a genre discussion of the whole article that I meant to bring up, I just wanted to rearrange the section so it's not overflowing with tags. But I thought I'd throw my few cents in anyway. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 20:03, 21 November 2016 (UTC)