Talk:Tacoma, Washington

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merger[edit]

for anyone interested...this could be added to this article, or a new article could also be created [1] Kingturtle 00:15 May 5, 2003 (UTC)

Urban Form additions[edit]

-Clarified and expanded discussion of the street numbering system (not sure if it is brief enough, though).

Updated, clarified, and rewrote parts of this section to hopefully make the section a little more complete.Rootrider (talk) 15:17, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

-Expanded discussion of business districts and added a link to the Cross District Association -Added a link to the article on the ferry Rhododendron, which I hope to also expand in the future.

Opening section needs revision[edit]

The opening section of Tacoma needs some revision. It's not very concise, nor does it give a general overview of the history, spirit, and pattern of events that occur here, nor does it highlight recent events that have taken place here like Downtown revitalization or the like.


My Two Cents Worth[edit]

I've spent the last several weeks reading various articles on Wikipedia pages. I made a minor addition to one page. This is my first comment. For those of you who missed Noam Cohen's ( New York Times ) article regarding Wikipedia ( TNT 02-23-07 pg. A4 ), I would suggest you read it. There is a lot that is good about an online source of information in the form of "encyclopedia", but if it loses its credibility in the academic world because of errata or vandalism, all that well-intentioned effort is wasted. While gang warfare or the 'aroma of Tacoma' may well seem to us, the local denizens, to be primary features of our own home town, such subjects do not have an appropriate place in what proposes to be an academic 'encylopedia', nor are they of legitimate value to a person seeking information on this particular subject. On the other hand, I was dismayed to find 'article not found' when clicking the hyperlink to 'David Brame'. While it may be true that Wikipedia is 'not controlled by the CIA, Martians, or Elvis', one has to wonder how much of the content is being removed or edited by public officials, law enforcement, or the local chamber of commerce. That the City of Tacoma has a long history ( little of which can be documented, other than through anecdotal sources ) of corrupt public officials ( especially in City Hall and local law enforcement ) is an issue worthy of mention, especially when in those instances elected officials are recalled ( A.L. "Slim" Rasmussen, et al ), or are involved in murder/suicides ( Brame ). Overall, the article reads as though it were put together for a tourism pamphlet, and does little in the way of providing a comprehensive history of the City, its evolvement, its relationship to other metropolitan areas in Puget Sound, and its significance in international commerce. Just my lousy two cents worth. Ski mohawk 13:20, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

David Brame is not encyclopedia worthy, it was a news story, about a murder suicide, who happened to be the police cheif of a medium sized city. If you think he merits an article in Wikipedia, go ahead and write one. You accurately address your second point with ( little of which can be documented, other than through anecdotal sources ) in reference to alleged corruption in the Tacoma municipal government. If there is no documentation, how can we include it in an encyclopedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saul T (talkcontribs) 13:33, August 29, 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with your opinion that David Brame is not noteworthy. I've finally gotten around to creating a stub of a page for him, with references from CBS News, in depth coverage from the local Tacoma newspaper, and his victim's relatives' apperance on Oprah. Travisl (talk) 20:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, that short article on Brame was deleted on a "WP:NOTNEWS" basis. On that same basis, I've removed the mention from the article here. I think it might be worth restoring as part of a section on corruption and scandal in city politics, if someone has enough other citable material to justify that.

Here's what I deleted: "On April 26, 2003, Tacoma's chief of police David Brame shot his wife and then killed himself in Gig Harbor, Washington. His wife died from injuries a few days later." That was cited <ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/projects/david_brame |title=Coverage of the Brame tragedy, including audio of 911 calls and dozens of news articles |work=The News Tribune |accessdate=2008-03-27}}</ref>

- Jmabel | Talk 01:14, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Big John the rapper[edit]

On April 4, 68.9.235.20 added Big John to the list of notable Tacomans. That link points to a disambiguation page, which doesn't point to the rapper in question. I Googled "big john" rapper tacoma, and the only relevant results were the rapper's MySpace page and other some non-mainstream coverage. I removed it, with the comment, "Removing Big John. No Wikipedia page, and Google doesn't show any mainstream coverage. Can you verify notability and add him back?"

68.9.235.20 added it back on April 7 without comment. I removed it, leaving the same comment I did before. 68.9.235.20 added it back today with the commment, "Big John is a rapper out of Tacoma Washington. Look him up on MySpace. He has 2 full length albums released, 'The Author' and 'The Next Step.'" I'm removing it again, requesting that whoever adds it back explains here how Big John meets the notability guidelines at Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Lists of people, specifically, which one (or more) of the 12 criteria at Wikipedia:MUSIC#Criteria for musicians and ensembles applies. Travisl (talk) 16:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I am 68.9.235.20
I have both of his albums. Just googling "Big John" will not get you to info about him, since it is such a common pair of words. You have to Google "Big John The Next Step" which is his latest album, to get the info. He is not at all big yet. He is an independant underground rapper running off his own record label, Magnus Records. His records are being distributed by Traffic Entertainment. He also made a music video of "How We Do", which is on YouTube. I bought his records at FYE, who stock him. If he is not "notable enough", then something is wrong, since he is a really really good rapper with 2 albums and a record label. Big John is not just some street rapper. He deserves to have a place in the music section of Tacoma, WA, since he is a notable rapper. If you at all disagree with me, layne4502@mail.com. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.9.235.20 (talk) 00:10, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the information. I've run the Google search you suggested, and it results in more than 6300 hits. A lot of them aren't related, so adding "magnus" to the search narrows it down to 430 hits, most of which are places selling his tracks or sharing his tracks. Let's look and see which of the 12 criteria at Wikipedia:MUSIC#Criteria for musicians and ensembles applies:
1. It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable.
Well, the album got a 4/5 star rating at Rolling Stone, but no review. There's no reviews at VH1's store, nor at Amazon (and almost everything has a review by some schmoe at Amazon.) Rhymehouse.com has an interview with him, but interviews don't count (rule 1 has the exception "except for the following: ... publications where the musician/ensemble talks about themselves..."). By the time I get to the 6th page of Google results, I start getting articles about things other than the rapper.
2. Has had a charted hit on any national music chart.
3. Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one country.
No indication that either is the case. His big album, The Next Step is currently "#234,380 in Music" on Amazon.
4. Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.
His MySpace page doesn't even list concert dates, and his blog there is empty.
5. Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).
In the rhymehouse.com interview, Big John says, "I would love to tour, but can't afford to lose my job. If I lose my job there will be no more Magnus Records." Sounds like it's just him.
6. (applies to musical groups only.)
7. Has become the most prominent representative of a notable style or of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability.
Maybe, but an article in The Stranger, the local music rag, which was written last October about the hip hop names in Tacoma, doesn't mention Big John at all.
8. Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy
9. Has won or placed in a major music competition.
10. Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g. a theme for a network television show
11. Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network.
12. Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast across a national radio or TV network.
I'd expect to see this information on his MySpace page. It's not there.
I understand that you think he's a significant part of the hiphip scene in Tacoma. I'd even go as far to say that if he gets one review (other than a simple numeric rating) in a single major publication, he should be included. That would include, for the purposes of inclusion in a list of notable Tacomans, a national magazine, the Weekly Volcano or The Stranger, The News Tribune, or any other major paper.
Am I missing a bit of information that you're finding that fits one of these criteria? Travisl (talk) 04:48, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
This is a big surprise to me how minor this guy really is. This is what no exposure does to an artist. I guarentee you if his video is played on MTV a couple times, he will go platinum. I am sorry for my inconvenience. I cannot believe how unfair the music industry and market is. The horrible people go #1 and win all types of awards and the great people are not even considered notable enough to be listed in the Wikipedia article of their origin town. Again, I am sorry for my inconvenience. I never knew that he is as small time as he is, I thought he was a bit bigger after listening to his albums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.9.235.20 (talk) 11:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the followup. I'm frustrated with the music industry too. There's some bands that I've really liked (e.g., The Orion Experience) which sadly didn't have the industry backing it takes to make it big. Different genre, same problem. Travisl (talk) 15:47, 11 April 2008 (UTC) [Late edit: then again, I just heard them in a mainstream TV show and they recently got some minor celebrity coverage, so maybe they're just on the notable side. We'll see. Travisl (talk) 23:33, 27 May 2008 (UTC)]
I was going to chime in here when I had time, but I see you guys have already agreed. Still, 68.9..., I just wanted to respond to something you said on User talk:Barneca/Unprotected: I never meant to say or imply this was a hoax or that he didn't exist, just that he likely didn't meet WP's fairly strict notability requirements. A general rule of thumb (not in absolutely all cases, but pretty widely followed) is that we don't include someone in the "notable people from X" sections of articles unless they have their own article; there should be very few, if any, red links in these lists. --barneca (talk) 16:30, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Some things I'd expect to see[edit]

I'm nothing like expert on Tacoma (I live in Seattle), but there are at least three things I'd expect to see that aren't currently in the article.

Unless I'm mistaken, downtown Tacoma sits precisely on land that a treaty (from 1856, I believe) had given to one or more Indian tribes. Unless I'm mistaken, there was a significant financial settlement related to that in the 1980s or 1990s.

There is basically nothing here on the decline of downtown Tacoma that preceded its recent revival. That decline was certainly dramatic enough to merit some coverage.

There is really nothing outside of the demographic section that acknowledges race as an issue in the city's history. Given that in 1885 Tacoma drove out literally its entire Chinese population, and given the racial tensions of the late 1960s and early 1970s and the subsequent career of Harold Moss (city councilman, mayor, Pierce County councilman; see [2]) the African American presence probably deserves more of a mention. And Moss certainly deserves an article. - Jmabel | Talk 05:55, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

  • In researching Harold Moss I came across a presumably citable article on the revival of downtown that also quotes Moss on how low the city had sunk in the 1970s. - Jmabel | Talk 06:20, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
  • I've now followed up on this myself. - Jmabel | Talk 00:32, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
  • The Black Collective probably also merits a mention (and maybe an article). It's now been going on for 4 decades. - Jmabel | Talk 06:24, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
  • 1885 anti-Chinese incident now mentioned. Thanks to whoever did that. - Jmabel | Talk 22:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

"Historic Landmarks" section[edit]

What is the basis for inclusion in the "Historic Landmarks" section? I agree that everything listed there right now is notable, but there are dozens of Tacoma buildings and districts on the National Register of Historic Places; weirdly, Stadium High School is not listed in its own right; instead it's just included in the Stadium-Seminary Historic District. - Jmabel | Talk 08:25, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

What is Tacoma's stand alone metro poulation? Seems to be larger than Spokane and Spokane has its own metro pop.Tacoma also seems to have a well defined urban core and its own arena(Tacoma Dome). Without lumping it in with Seattle(45 min away) what would its metro be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.171.233.131 (talk) 00:52, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Frederick Heath (architect)[edit]

Might be worth a mention in the article, or at least of interest to those working on this article. One source says he designed the National Realty Building which was the tallest building west of the Mississippi at the time? He also did lots of other interesting buildings. Someone should add a photo of the Stadium Bowl. Ambrose J. Russell mights also be of interest to peeps aqui. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:34, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Toyota Tacoma[edit]

in the opening section, this quote exists "Japanese automaker Toyota has a truck named after the city." First, does this sort of statement really belong in the opening summary? Secondly, is this verified at all? I had always assumed that the "Tacoma" was named after the mountain (ie. Rainier), not the city. I see that this same unverified assertion is made in the opening section of the Toyota_Tacoma article as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rootrider (talkcontribs) 14:05, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

It seems as though this has been removed, but I do recall reading at the time the Toyota Tacoma first came out that it was named after the city. I believe it may have something to do with Toyota shipping through Port of Tacoma. Perhaps this is something that could be added under the "Commerce and Industry" heading, but I'm not ambitious enough to research it at the moment.--131.191.56.133 (talk) 14:42, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Goodies[edit]

I would have liked to have the "goodies" that come from tacoma mentioned in the summary. Such as Johnny's seasoning as well as Almond Roca. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.232.72.152 (talk) 10:19, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Cultural attractions[edit]

Any chance we should mention First Night (the big New Years celebration in Tacoma)? Seems to me a lot bigger deal than, for example, Shakespeare in the Parking Lot. - Jmabel | Talk 20:04, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Notable Tacomans[edit]

Wikipedia entries for Frank Herbert, Dashiell Hammett mention time spent living in Tacoma. Do they (and other "famous Tacomans" - Dale Chihuly, etc. - merit a mention (perhaps a section on notable people w/ ties to the city). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.185.9.91 (talk) 06:38, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Name origin[edit]

The article states that the city was named for Mount Tahoma. But the name of the city is Tacoma. Is there a mispelling of the original name of Mount Rainier, or is there some other explanation for the discrepancy? fishhead64 (talk) 15:25, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Re: Tahoma/Tacoma ... my understanding is that these are spelling variations of the Native American name for the mountain, a result of translating the non-written Native American words into English by multiple persons who hear the words slightly differently - although at the moment I can't seem to locate a source to support that. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 17:31, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Mount Rainier was to be called Mount Tahoma, but Seattle/King County won out in the battle over naming rights. 67.137.68.210 (talk) 15:21, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Technically, not true saying "was to be called", per Mount Rainier#Human history. The mountain was originally named Talol or Tacoma by Native Americans; it received the name of Mount Rainier by the first European to see the mountain in 1792, which is the name made official by the United States Board on Geographic Names in 1890 - by which time the city already existed. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 17:31, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

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