Talk:Tales of Phantasia
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Tales of Phantasia was nominated as a good article in the Video games category but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Reviewed version: January 27, 2014
|WikiProject Anime and manga||(Rated B-class, Low-importance)|
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I archived the entire talk page. The latest discussion was from March 2007, and the page was getting too long. See the archive for past discussion if necessary. Do not edit the archive page. --Imaginationac (Talk | Edits | Email) 02:47, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Aselia, the Tales wiki recruitment
This will be the only time I do this. This is wiki hosted by Wikia. I'm an admin there, and I'm looking for input and possibly editors interested in contributing on a regular basis. It's here. --Imaginationac (Talk | Edits | Email) 02:59, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
If no one has any objections, I'm gonna change the character names to their official names from the only official English release of Tales of Phantasia in any way, shape, or form, the GBA release. If anyone has a problem, they can e-mail a Namco-Bandai representative and ask what the official English language names are for the characters. Anyway, am I the only one who finds "Cless" and "Klarth" very odd and unnatural sounding? Yoshiguy 01:09, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
- If no one had any objections, then there wouldn't be this extremely long discussion of people's objections. --Buuneko 09:33, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
- Whoops. How did I miss that? Well, whatever, it's already archived, so no one is going to continue with it, eh? I'd like to see some kind of consensus on this, as the page would benefit from some sort of change. Anyway, nearly every other article has official English language names take preference over the original language names. This is the English Wikipedia, isn't it?Yoshiguy 20:34, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
- Sadly, the previous archived discussion never really came to a consensus-based conclusion, and universally applying the EN GBA names is going to reignite this problem again; just wait until we can resolve this issue. The article has bigger (content) problems than the name inconsistency. Tsunade 10:11, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
- Ah, I see what you mean. I just skimmed through the article and saw the names and I really wanted to change them, but it's a bit too big of a change, so I decided to start this topic. I'd like to try my best to better this article, but sadly, my editing skills are lackluster at best. Sigh. What're ya gonna do about it? Yoshiguy 23:13, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
- I'm currently working on the Tales of Destiny, Tales of Destiny 2, Tales of Rebirth articles; this article has a variety of issues as well... the problem is that people generally see the only English translation as terrible, whereas the original Japanese version and PS1 port were superior. Well, you should probably defer to the in-region localization, but the status quo of this article is not so bad. Personally, I'm used to the original names because I have only played the original SNES version; all those add-in links to Symphonia didn't help the situation either in the N.A. localization because now two plots are tied up in one another. The bottom line is that Cress/Claus is official, unfortunately, but there is no will to change the names back. We've had edit wars on this before, so it probably needs outside mediation. Tsunade 04:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
- I've gone ahead and changed the names to the official ones used in the English translations of the game and OVA series. I've read through the discussion of this matter already, and as much as it may upset people, there is simply no reason not to use the official names provided for the English language release of the game. The quality of Phantasia's translation does not change the fact that these are the official EL names intended for use by Namco. The fact that these names are used in the English release of the OVA series (for which Namco was consulted) only confirms this (see here http://www.talesofphantasiadvd.com/). The names are official for the English speaking world, and as such, they should be used as the primary names for the English Wikipedia. 22.214.171.124 19:07, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- Thank you, 138! I didn't want to cause any friction by just up and changing the names like that, but I'm glad someone was bold enough to do it! Personally, I thought those names sounded a bit like something a giant panda with Parkinson's disease made up. Well, endangered ursine creatures with nervous system disorders aside, I'm glad that this is done! Yoshiguy 02:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Source on Namco being consulted? Because that website doesn't seem to say anything of the sort. The English dub of Tales of Phantasia (sold as "The Hero's of Space & Time", coincidentally poor English) was directed by Patrick Seitz for Geneon Entertainment USA and there's been no evidence I recall of any contribution from either Namco other than "Yeah, you can translate this. Thanks for the money.". Nintendo had control over the game incarnation of Phantasia's translation and various interviews note Seitz's recognition of the games so he probably took the names straight from the game for consistency. Perhaps also worthy of note: If Namco were in control over this translation they'd have used their own channels (these boys). - 126.96.36.199 (talk) 21:02, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
PSP version is a remake
Under the definition Wikipedia uses, the PSP version should be considered a remake.
- I wonder what problem Aoimusha with calling the game a remake. By definition, it is an enhanced remake regardless of what Aoimusha thinks so I'll continue to change it back to remake whenever he tries to edit it. LordArcadio 19:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, I think it could also be classified as an Enhanced Port, which would make more since, as it's basically just the PS1 version with a few changes put in, kind of like how Sonic Adventure DX is an Enhanced Port of Sonic Adventure, not a remake. If the PSP version is a remake, then so is the GBA version, and so is Sonic Adventure DX, etc. And that definition you provide isn't Wikipedia's official as anyone can edit that article. Anyway, so this doesn't devolve into a edit-war between you two, I'm going to change them to "version" rather than "remake/port", the other language versions of this page use "version", and so do the other game articles I've read that have multiple releases, so this page should too. 188.8.131.52 00:46, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
The PSP remake is a remake of the PSX remake then. If you won't accept Wikipedia as proof that the PSP remake is a remake then at least accept the dictionary as one. And yes, I suppose the GBA version can be considered a remake as well so I fixed that section. -184.108.40.206 01:09, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Fair use rationale needed
In which English version was Mint ever referred to as "Mint Adenade?" (that was not a serious question) My manual for the English release of the GBA version has her listed as "Mint Adnade." Cutepresea (talk) 02:35, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
This article switches between the English and Japanese names far too many times. I honestly don't feel like fixing it at the moment. I know people argue too much over which one to use, but the article honestly looks bad at the moment. Cutepresea (talk) 18:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Names once and for all
The De-jap names shouldn't even exist in this article, the GBA translation is the official (and most current) source for names, I know many people prefer the older names, but the official ones take priority as they are official. I'll be switching the names back within the hour. djtjj 19:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC) (I also took down the broken imege links as well)
Just wanted to point out that those are the official Japanese names for the characters, not names made up by De-Jap. They appear in the Japanese game manuals, and in the PS1 version's opening credits. Also at the Japanese Wikipedia's Character List. Aoimusha (talk) 13:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
You're missing the point here, there still the official English names this not being the Japanese wiki, the English names apply djtjj 18:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djtjj (talk • contribs)
I'm not missing the point at all, I never said the English names didn't apply here, I was merely correcting your mistake of calling the official Japanese names "The De-jap names". Aoimusha (talk) 02:09, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Actually if we want to go strictly with Namco Bandai on this one, "the official" GBA release of Phantasia arguably disagrees with them! Reason being that Tales of the Abyss was fully translated by Namco and Mint Adnade (not "Adenade") made an appearance (0:07 to 0:08 here shows her name first, but it appears on various status screens throughout). Compared to that, Phantasia's translation was pretty much pushed through by Nintendo America (I can't find a 100% source on this one anymore, but it's fairly well-known). So leaving aside all the other sticking points (such as the acknowledged poor quality of translation or the "official" English on the JP versions), surely Adnade at least trumps Adenade for being both newer and from a more creditable "official" source. - 220.127.116.11 (talk) 21:02, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
- I wouldn't exactly say "most current," either, because the PSP release of Phantasia in Japan is more recent than the GBA release here. The GBA version is really the -only- source for their English names besides the OVA (which is where I think "Adenade" popped up from) and appearances by the characters in other games. Although I'm not complaining. The more consistent, the better. This article switched between them way too much, anyway. If you feel like changing every Japanese name in the article to the English ones, go ahead, I'm not arguing against it. (I will admit, though, it is kind of hard to trust the names created by someone who translated "Ragnarok" as "kangaroo.") 18.104.22.168 (talk) 09:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
In the context of my point (English sources), yes it is the most current. As you pointed out yourself the PSP port was Japan-only and entirely irrelevant to the English translations. Second, the OVA was not where "Adenade" came from. The game's translation used Adenade (see the status screen and manual, though note the manual itself disagrees with the game on a few points, see "Arch" not "Arche") and the OVA apparently followed suit. The short of my point was that Namco didn't have direct control (or even interest) in GBA Phantasia's translation and have separately gone against "Adenade". Personally I expect that were Namco to perform a translation they would possibly keep Cress, but also use Adnade, Ragnarok, Mirald, Sleipnir (Pegasus?! Wrong mythology!!), Runeglom, and a few others that aren't as nonsensical as what we got on the GBA release (I can't imagine they'd keep Claus). - 22.214.171.124 (talk) 13:23, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- My manual for the English version says "Adnade." I don't know about the status screen because I got irritated with the translation. "Arch" was probably just a typo. I've done the same thing myself before from typing too quickly. And Pegasus was a correct translation, though, so I see no reason why they should change it just to stay consistent with the other mythology used in the game, even if it was out of place. Although I wasn't arguing against using the English names. Like I was saying, I don't care whether we use the English names or the Japanese names in this article as long as it's consistent throughout. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 06:25, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
I would assume the game cart overrides the manual (though that they conflict at all should speak volumes about translation quality) and here's the game pic. Second, what's your source on "Pegasus" being used in the JP version as well (and hence a "correct" translation)? Because even if you ignore the related mythology (such as Odin, Valkyrie, Gungnir, Ragnarok - er, I mean Kangaroo, Valhalla Plains, Fenrir Temple...) then the official artwork still depicts the eight legs of Sleipnir. - 188.8.131.52 (talk) 21:11, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
- Seems like a good idea to me. --184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:26, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
- Agreed. There's really no reason to have separate pages for what are essentially the same game. ChaosMaster (talk) 01:59, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
- Agree merge sounds very reasonable. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk 15:56, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
- Agree Both articles are in terrible shape, so it'd probably be easier to clean up one merged one rather than 2 separate ones... Sergecross73 msg me 16:00, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Tales of Phantasia/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
I will start a review for this soon. GamerPro64 16:03, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
So looking through this article, I see multiple issues that would not warrent it Good Article in its current status. One issue I have is the entire "Gameplay" section is unreferenced. Another issue it have is that nine of the references used are from VGMdb, a website the Video Game project have deemed unreliable. discussion.
The prose is also a concern. An example of this is from the "Gameplay" section: "In the Linear Motion Battle System (LMBS), the fight is played out on a two-dimensional terrain that usually stretches wider than a single screen width, so the screen can scroll to the left and to the right, depending on where the characters and opponents are relatively located." I'm not entirely sure what that means.
Now I noticed that the nominator for this, User:Colored Cloud, has only made two edits, that being editing the article and nominating it. As such, I'm not entirely sure whether or not to quick fail this review. So I'll just wait the seven days and see what will happen. GamerPro64 22:20, 26 January 2014 (UTC)