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|This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, realise, aeroplane), and some terms used in it are different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.|
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Article actually is in American English (or should be)
Since the article is about a topic that has no clear ties to any one version of English, we need to go with the first contributor's version. Which was American English. Check the history--it was U.S. English (aka armor) up until this edit, whose only/main purpose was to switch the national variety of English used into Commonwealth English. My plan is to adjust the article accordingly, but I thought I'd post here first. Red Slash 21:56, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
- While it starts in October 2001 as armor, it changed in August 2002 and has been "ou" spelling since. Little to be gained from changing now. GraemeLeggett (talk) 22:31, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
- Neither of the versions cited there as "the beginning" are past being stubs. They'd even still just be disambigs, if such had been recognised at the time. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:33, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
- See WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. 10 years ago, there was a single edit made by a single editor that was against our practices, even back then, that unilaterally changed it from U.S. English to British English. I just undid that change. Not one editor said "you shouldn't do it", they just said that they didn't see the gain from doing it. I didn't mind doing it and going by what our guidelines say, going with the first non-stub version. No fighting needed. Red Slash 06:10, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
- Reverted again. Localconsensus versus a guideline is a red herring in this case. (Hohum @) 14:07, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
I think that the logical choice would be to choose the version of English that most readers of this article speak. I would venture to guess that it is American English, considering Americans operate far more tanks than Britain. Is their any way to tell the origin of this articles traffic? That would be useful in resolving this. History2222 (talk) 20:11, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- The relevance of the number of tanks operated by the USA is not apparent to me, but the logic of the above is that since it is likely that the version of English spoken by readers of any article is likely to be American English, purely because the USA has, at present, the largest English-speaking population, then all of Wikipedia should be in American English. Hengistmate (talk) 11:08, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- As I understand it, the tank was developed first by Britain, but is now pretty universally used in English-speaking nations. Whatever the style of English used by the original author, if there was a change in style made a over a decade ago, that was the time to raise the issue. At this point, it's too late. From the POV of the subject matter, British English has something of a claim; from the POV of first author, American English has something of a claim. From the POV of readability and understandability, either is fine. If the article was in British English for a dozen years without being challenged, it should remain in British English. --Badger151 (talk) 21:55, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- My point is that neither language has a strong claim; either language is fine. There's no compelling reason for change. --Badger151 (talk) 03:33, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Porsche as inventor of torsion bar suspension?
What is the source for this claim? Torsion bar suspension was first used on J.G. Parry-Thomas' racing cars in the 20s. First use on a tank is the Swedish Strv L-60 of 1934. Where does Porsche come in? Vasiliy Fofanov (talk) 11:44, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
- Editors of articles, particularly ones as wide-ranging as this one are not experts in all areas of tank technology. You appear to be an expert on torsion-bar suspension, which is great, we need your input! This was asserted by Deighton, which many have noted is not a particularly authoritative source. Also, I may have misinterpreted what he wrote. However, the article on the Strv L-60 gives no citation and I'm reluctant to change this without one because I have no better information on hand. If you can supply some more detail and particularly citations, I'd suggest you WP:Be bold. Edits with citations may be rewritten for style, but they are very unlikely to be reverted. Doug (talk) 14:49, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
- I understand. The L-60 is not a widely-known tank so indeed the sources are sparse. Its wiki page mentions it inspired Russian and German tank designers, and indeed Russian sources assert the torsion bar suspension on Soviet pre-war tanks like the T-40 is derived from L-60. One detailed (non-Russian) page on L-60, in particular crediting it with being the first tank to use the torsion bar suspension, is here (in Swedish): http://www2.landskrona.se/kultur/landsverk/militart/stridsvagnar/l60-s.html Curiously, this source also goes on to credit F.Porsche with this invention, but at the moment it seems dubious to me since Porsche hasn't been drawn into armor technology until well into the war... Vasiliy Fofanov (talk) 15:37, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
From the article Torsion bar suspension:
The Czechoslovakian Tatra cars designed by Professor Hans Ledwinka in the mid-1930s used all round independent torsion bar suspension, along with air cooled rear engines. Also in the 1930s, prototypes of the first Volkswagen Beetle incorporated torsion bars—especially its transverse mounting style. Ledwinka's concept had been copied by Ferdinand Porsche, whose successors later had to acknowledge the influence of Ledwinka's sophisticated Tatra models on the Porsche-designed Kdf-Wagen of 1938 (later renamed the VW Beetle), a post-war lawsuit resulting in a DM3,000,000 settlement paid by Volkswagen to Ringhoffer-Tatra in 1961.
Since there was a lot of technical exchange between the engineers it's not unreasonable to postulate Landsverk got the idea from the Porche construction and thus attributed it to F.P. BP OMowe (talk) 20:03, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
- But Landsverk got the tank finished in 1934, probably was designing it for several years before that, so seems to me they couldn't have got the idea from any mid-30s, never mind end-30s, design. Dates of introduction just don't compute otherwise. Vasiliy Fofanov (talk) 14:42, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
- Very true,albeit the development of the Beetle took unusually long time from the initiation in 1932((?), and Porche had been involved in the car&racing industry before that. Like Porches comment on the Tatra lawsuit, claiming inspiration and ideas had passed both ways... There is simply no way to dismiss the source as obviously false or mistaken with less another RS which specifically looks into the matter says so.BP OMowe (talk) 21:19, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia - Another example of lies propaganda & thievery. An Australian invented the tank in 1911.
This wikipedia article is yet another inaccurate article & i feel it should be changed to reflect the truth about the invention of the Tank.
The current article on the main page sez the tank was developed simultaneously by France & Great Britan in world war one.
This claim is ambiguous.
The Following statement is wrong ... wrong ... wrong ...
Tanks in World War I were developed separately and simultaneously by Great Britain  and France as a means to break the deadlock of trench warfare on the Western Front. Their first use in combat was by the British Army on September 15, 1916 between the villages of Flers and Courcelette, during the Battle of the Somme. The name "tank" was adopted by the British during the early stages of their development, as a security measure to conceal their purpose (see etymology). While the French and British built thousands of tanks between them, Germany was unconvinced of the tank's potential, and built only twenty of her own. ________________________
Fact is Australia invented the worlds first tank in 1911, but during world war one Australia was so far away from the Australian mainland .... it asked it's allies to help ..... Just as Australia did when Australian Howard Flory invented Penicillin but Australia needed the British & later the USA to help ramp up production. ( Australia had/has a small population an as such Australia's manufacturing industry is non existent. So in the case of the Tank. ... Australia ... Who is part of the Commonwealth, asked the British war office to build the tank in Europe as Australia could not build it in Australia .... nor transport it from Australia to Europe.
But Dont take my word for it .... Ask the British war office. Or read the 1912 letter ( Documented Proof ) that Lancelot Eldin invented the Tank.
How did France develop the tank when it was occupied by the Germans & then taken back by the Australian's & British.
& how did the French & British invent the tank in after the start of world war one ... 1914. when Australian Lancelot Eldin de Mole invented the tank & wrote to Australian & later British generals at the Commonwealth war office & later to the the British war office as early as 1912. A whole two years before the start of world war one.
In 1911, Australian-born Lancelot Eldin de Mole was struck with the idea for an armoured vehicle that ran on treads. He sent sketches and descriptions of his design to the British War Office, only to be informed in June 1913 that his idea had been rejected. When in 1916 an inferior (in de Mole's opinion) tank was introduced, the engineer realised that he had been passed over. A British royal commission later said that de Mole's design "had made and reduced to practical shape, as far back as the year 1912, a brilliant invention which anticipated, and in some respects surpassed, that actually put into use in the year 1916", but he was never formally acknowledged as the tank's inventor.
Military history of Australia during World War I
While Australia saved the world in world war one defeating the Muslim caliphate which spanned from Africa to the borders of France & Hungry ... Engulfing Spain ect ect Australia was liberating France, Italy, Greece, Hungry, Belgium ect ect ... Fighting the Germans, Muslims on 3 fronts in Africa, Middle East & Europe ...
Australians on the Western Front 1914-1918
Please correct the main article to reflect the fact that it was Australian ancelot Eldin de Mole who invented the worlds first tank, in 1911, a tank that was later built by Commonwealth forces in 1916.
- Why not add it yourself? de Mole's work belongs here, I would agree. It's in the WWI tanks article already.
- I don't think he invented the tank though. The concept was around even before him, the problem was the substantial one of how to build it. de Mole didn't solve this. He didn't build a full-sized model (and the real practical problems are only evident at full size). He didn't describe a model that would work at full size. At most, he was the first with the idea of the 'climbing face'. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:49, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
- the statement "Tanks in World War I were developed separately and simultaneously by Great Britain and France as a means to break the deadlock of trench warfare on the Western Front" is not ambiguous. Here "Developed" means brought into being, which De Mole did not contribute to, certainly not to the French efforts. And the efforts of Wilson and Foster appear to have independently reached the rhomboid arrangement and solved the sagging Holt tracks. Which the commission reflected in its awards. One element of the narrative missing - in my mind - is that in 1913, de Mole's tank is trying to solve a problem that does not yet exist; the wires and machine guns and trenches have yet to appear. From the tone of the ip editor's text, there appears to elements of trying to "right a wrong". GraemeLeggett (talk) 22:53, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
Lede image unsuitable
The M4A4 cutaway image is too specialized to be selected for the lede. We need a more generalized image and relocate M4A4 cutaway somewhere else in the article. Green547 (talk) 17:32, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
- Agreed, although (per many past comments on this page) I wouldn't chose a modern tank, or one with side skirts hiding the roadwheels and tracks. M4 Shermans are quite a good choice, but not this cutaway. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:51, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
- Good. WWII defined first real "tanks". Sherman was familiar to most Western Allies -- especially good for this en-Wikipedia.
- I still like the cut-away pic in general, though. Pls find a new place for it in this article. --A D Monroe III (talk) 19:21, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
Comment moved from ANI
The "Tank" page was changed to British English. While the tank was first used by British forces, American tanks and tactics were used in the most recent conflict that was internationally recognized. America has manufactured more tanks than Britain in every war since WWI, and British tanks are adaptations of American tanks, not the other way around, and have been for decades. For these reasons, I hold that the article should be in American English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Helpingoutagain (talk • contribs) 15:42, 3 March 2016 (UTC) moved from WP:ANI by Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:46, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
@Helpingoutagain: I moved your comment here because it's relevant to this article, and isn't a matter requiring administrators' involvement. Please discuss here. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:47, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note that the page was changed back to British after it was changed to American by you, which, per wp:ENGVAR and wp:RETAIN, is something we normally don't do. - DVdm (talk) 16:51, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
Note that the discussion from 2013 reached the conclusion that raising objections more than a decade after the change is simply too late and that the article should remain in British English. As for the argument that number of tanks produced should be the determining factor, I think all agrees that having the article in Soviet English is a bad idea. BP OMowe (talk) 21:10, 1 July 2016 (UTC)