Talk:Academic tenure in North America

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Summary after history??[edit]

This article seems poorly organized. I wanted to send this link to a friend to explain the tenure system, but it doesn't do a very good job of explaining the concept quickly. It doesn't make sense to me to have the summary "Academic Tenure" section following the history. If someone is looking for a brief explanation of what tenure is, that information should be right at the top, followed by its history and whatever other information might further explain the concept. Unless anyone objects, I propose switching the order of the summary and history sections, placing the summary paragraphs first. Thoughts? Fleep (talk) 13:22, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I haven't heard any feedback, so I'm going to go ahead and make this change. Fleep (talk) 10:49, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Service to the institution?[edit]

What does "service to the institution" mean in the sentence "teaching intensive institutions value teaching and service to the institution more highly." Is this like management and bureaucracy, or what? - Connelly (talk) 23:53, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Many North American Universities are in essence self governing. There is typically a University Senate that deals with the academic programme of the school, there are departmental committees, university wide committees etc. This is what typically is meant by service. It is not really management. For example, I am currently on a hiring committee, we will do most of the interviewing etc, I will be hiring my own colleague, not some person in human resources. I hope this helps. Dbrodbeck (talk) 01:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC).

Rename article "academic tenure"[edit]

This article is about academic tenure. Why not name it "academic tenure"? --64.181.90.196 05:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Please see the previous discussion above for some reasons why not. In brief, there's no reason to disambiguate it, since there are no Wikipedia articles on the other uses of tenure as a word, since Wikipedia is not a dictionary. -- Rbellin|Talk 13:48, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
One could argue that even in the absence of a conflicting article, the title should still be renamed to the more precise term in order to more accurately reflect the contents of the article, perhaps with a redirect from the current title to the new one. -- AfroThundr3007730 (talk) 11:17, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
Agreed. fgnievinski (talk) 20:35, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Tenure in U.S. K-12 education...[edit]

The tenure article completely ignores tenure in primary and secondary schools, which is the norm in most U.S. states. As far as I can tell, this subject isn't covered anywhere else on Wikipedia, which is highly odd. Shouldn't a major section of the article discuss this practice? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.3.76.47 (talk) 15:45, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I totally agree with this. I signed on here to say exactly the same thing! How can the writers of this article completely disregard tenure in the USA K-12 school system? 70.169.212.130 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:16, 2 June 2011 (UTC).


I actually came to the article for information regarding tenure in elementary schools. With all the controversy and recent legal actions I'm surprised there is not more info on this issue.--Stubborn Myth (talk) 06:30, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

2015 and still nothing on k-12 tenure 38.97.97.99 (talk) 19:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Tenure depresses salaries[edit]

The following was deleted by Hullaballoo Wolfowitz as "Opinion/speculation presented as fact". I disagree. In fact to say that all these sources are "opinion" or "speculation" is not, in my opinion, a fair reading of the validity of the sources I cite, although the last sentence could be taken as speculation (not by me, by the way). I don't even think this is controversial among professors (I am a retired professor). But I don't want to get into an edit war.

Another, indirect result of the American tenure system is the depression of professorial salaries. Since the job security provided by the tenure system has economic value, professors accept lower salaries because of it. If tenure were abolished, there might be an exodus of professors to higher-paying, outside positions.[1][2][3][4]

References

  1. ^ David W. Breneman, "Alternatives to Tenure for the Next Generation of Academics. New Pathways: Faculty Career and Employment for the 21st Century" Working Paper Series, Inquiry #14, ERIC Number: ED424824, http://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED424824, retrieved 2014-08-26
  2. ^ Gene C. Fant, Jr., "No Tenure=Higher Pay?", Chronicle of Higher Education, May 18, 2011, http://chronicle.com/blogs/onhiring/no-tenurehigher-pay/28841, retrieved 2014-08-26
  3. ^ J. Andrew Curliss and Lynn Bonner, "Teachers get higher pay but give up tenure in NC Senate GOP plan", [Raleigh, N.C.] "& News Observer" May 27, 2014, http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/05/27/3891976/teachers-get-higher-pay-but-give.html, retrieved 2014-08-26
  4. ^ "The argument that tenure persists because it is an economic benefit, and would be too costly to replace with higher salary, has some validity", Ernst Benjamin, "The Eroding Foundations of Academic Freedom and Professional Integrity: Implications of the Diminishing Proportion of Tenured Faculty for Organizational Effectiveness in Higher Education", AAUP [American Association of University Professors] Journal of Academic Freedom, Volume 1, 2010, http://www.aaup.org/sites/default/files/files/JAF/2010%20JAF/Benjamin.pdf, retrieved 2014-08-26

Steve Jobs meeting[edit]

I have twice reverted the addition of S Jobs meeting with the US President about teacher tenure. I would like it if it could be explained why this matters? Did the meeting change anything? How was it 'consequential'? And, frankly, who cares what Steve Jobs thought about the whole thing. Oh, here is my edit [1] which shows the stuff I removed. Thanks. Dbrodbeck (talk) 23:55, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Effect of tenure on professors' salaries[edit]

The following section I added was reverted as "opinion/speculation presented as fact". I thought it worth preserving nere.


Another, indirect result of the American tenure system is the depression of professorial salaries. Since the job security provided by the tenure system has economic value, professors accept lower salaries because of it. If tenure were abolished, there might be an exodus of professors to higher-paying, outside positions.[1][2][3][4]

deisenbe (talk) 12:10, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ David W. Breneman, "Alternatives to Tenure for the Next Generation of Academics. New Pathways: Faculty Career and Employment for the 21st Century" Working Paper Series, Inquiry #14, ERIC Number: ED424824, http://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED424824, retrieved 2014-08-26
  2. ^ Gene C. Fant, Jr., "No Tenure=Higher Pay?", Chronicle of Higher Education, May 18, 2011, http://chronicle.com/blogs/onhiring/no-tenurehigher-pay/28841, retrieved 2014-08-26
  3. ^ J. Andrew Curliss and Lynn Bonner, "Teachers get higher pay but give up tenure in NC Senate GOP plan", [Raleigh, N.C.] "& News Observer" May 27, 2014, http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/05/27/3891976/teachers-get-higher-pay-but-give.html, retrieved 2014-08-26
  4. ^ "The argument that tenure persists because it is an economic benefit, and would be too costly to replace with higher salary, has some validity", Ernst Benjamin, "The Eroding Foundations of Academic Freedom and Professional Integrity: Implications of the Diminishing Proportion of Tenured Faculty for Organizational Effectiveness in Higher Education", AAUP [American Association of University Professors] Journal of Academic Freedom, Volume 1, 2010, http://www.aaup.org/sites/default/files/files/JAF/2010%20JAF/Benjamin.pdf, retrieved 2014-08-26

External links modified[edit]

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