Talk:The Hills/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

Article (edit | edit beta | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: J Milburn (talk · contribs) 18:36, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Can't exactly say I'm a fan of the show, but I'm vaguely aware of it. Happy to offer a review. J Milburn (talk) 18:36, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

First read-through[edit]

  • Did Port really launch the The City? Our article says the idea came from DeVillo?
Yes check.svg Done, "starring" is a better word here.
  • "Every installment commences with a voice-over narrative from series leads Lauren Conrad (seasons 1–5)[6] and Kristin Cavallari (seasons 5–6)" Shouldn't that be or? Presumably, they don't do a voice-over together?
Yes check.svg Done, my mistake!
  • "Most installments revolve around the women's everyday lives, but the show puts emphasis on their personal, rather than professional, lives." That's pretty clear to anyone who's watched the show, but do you perhaps have a reference? Anything that mentions personal lives is going to get jumped on by BLP people.
Yes check.svg Done, added description from Common Sense Media.
  • "During this time, rumors were widespread that Conrad wished to leave the series to pursue other career opportunities, though producers persuaded her to film ten additional episodes in the following season to close her storylines." The source cited doesn't say any of this.
Yes check.svg Done, reworded.
The new source doesn't mention it either. We need sources saying that there were rumours at that time that Conrad wanted to leave, that she wanted to leave to pursue other career opportunities, that it was producers who persuaded her to stay, and that she was persuaded to stay for ten more episodes. As far as I can see, neither of the sources mention any of these claims. J Milburn (talk) 21:24, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
I found a good source from Entertainment Weekly that covers all of that, and I reworded it a bit just to make sure the article and the reference line up with each other. WikiRedactor (talk) 22:02, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
  • "Halfway through the season, Montag left the series after being excluded from other cast members." Once again, this simply isn't what the source says. Further, it's not clear what being "excluded from other cast members" means.
Yes check.svg Done, reworded and provided reference.
  • "were also hired that season" What do you mean by "hired"? They were previously not paid, but now started getting paid? Something tells me that this wasn't discussed in the episode, which is what is cited.
Yes check.svg Done, "introduced" should work better here.
  • "The former had a brief romantic involvement with Conrad was credited as "Kristin's ex-boyfriend" after her departure, while the latter was titled "Brody's friend" after the casting adjustment." This doesn't make sense.
Yes check.svg Done, Jenner and Delgado each have their own sentences to clear up confusion.
  • "he following season, Justin "Justin-Bobby" Brescia was recognized as "Audrina's boyfriend" and "Audrina's ex-boyfriend", and largely contributed to her storylines in later seasons." Again, you're making a lot of claims here, which are all apparently sourced to a single episode.
Yes check.svg Done, linked to refs in later seasons.
  • "was briefly featured in the series from the fourth season onward." If it was the fourth season onwards, it was three seasons. Hardly "brief". Yet again, I'm not clear how you can source a claim like this to one episode.
Yes check.svg Done, reworded and added ref from season 6.
  • "fellow Teen Vogue co-intern" She's either a fellow intern or a co-intern- you don't need both.
Yes check.svg Done, now it just reads "intern".
  • Try to avoid referring to the stars as "girls". That's a bit patronising.
Did you remove those bits? I couldn't find any cases of this in the article.
Yeah, I did, sorry. J Milburn (talk) 21:24, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Describing Pratt as a "womanizer" is an absolute no-go- stick to the facts. We're not a tabloid!
How would you suggest rewording that?
I've already just removed the term. J Milburn (talk) 20:41, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
  • "Montag and Pratt moved into an apartment together by the season finale" Did they do that by the finale, or in the finale?
Yes check.svg Done, reworded.
  • "After suspecting that Pratt fabricated rumors of a sex tape involving herself and Wahler, Conrad ended her relationship with Montag in the third season." Are these things related?
Yes check.svg Done, cleared that up a bit.
  • "planning their nuptials" is a bit colloquial
Yes check.svg Done, removed.
  • " Meanwhile, as the feud between Conrad and Montag builds, Spencer's sister Stephanie Pratt initially took a disliking to Conrad, though upon the realization that they attend the same college, they became friends." This doesn't make sense. Be careful with tense switches.
Yes check.svg Done, reworded.
  • "By the end of the season, Conrad and Patridge moved out of their apartment and purchased a home, with new housemate Bosworth becoming a distancing factor between the former two." Again, you have to say something had happened by the end of the season. Or, if you mean to say it happened in the final episode, just say that.
Yes check.svg Done, it happened a couple episodes before the finale, so I added in a "had".
  • Meanwhile... Meanwhile... Meanwhile...
Yes check.svg Done, switched up some vocabulary.
  • "The fourth season sees Patridge" Again, tenses
Yes check.svg Done, reworded.
  • "While vacationing in Mexico, an intoxicated Montag and Pratt elope.[40] Upon returning to Los Angeles, she and Conrad appeared to come to common terms, though the latter's suspicions continued to inhibit a reconciliation.[41]" I struggle to follow what is being claimed here.
Yes check.svg Done, clarified.
  • "the male Pratt" When there's ambiguity, use the full name- "the male" or "the female" sounds silly.
Yes check.svg Done, fixed.
  • "She delivered Pratt with an ultimatum to attend couples' therapy as a final attempt to salvage their relationship, who reluctantly agreed." This doesn't make sense
Yes check.svg Done, clarified.
  • "As they become re-engaged and decide to officially marry, Montag invited Conrad to their wedding." Again, tenses all over the place
Yes check.svg Done, fixed.
  • "After she initially declined the offer, Montag convinced Pratt to call Conrad and apologize for starting the sex tape rumors." Clumsy writing
Yes check.svg Done, reworded.
  • "the mid-season finale" How can there be a mid-season finale?
It was the end of Part I, which were Conrad's last set of episodes.
  • "Meanwhile, Montag and Pratt purchased a new house, and clash over the decision to begin a family; Montag wished to have children, while Pratt opposed the thought." Tenses
Yes check.svg Done, fixed.
  • "the female Pratt" Again
Yes check.svg Done, addressed.
  • "Patridge became involved in a brief relationship with singer Ryan Cabrera and settles as friends with Brescia, while Bosworth moved in with her boyfriend Scott" Tenses
Yes check.svg Done, "settles" is now "settled".
  • "that hadn't driven off and hugged Jenner" "didn't" should be avoided
Yes check.svg Done, reworded.
  • The description of the last scene is important, but is a little confusing as-is.
Yes check.svg Done, let me know how you feel about it now.
  • You refer to a lot of the opinions you cite as being from "editors". Is that definitely the case?
In those articles, authors' names weren't provided and I was unsure how to go about that. Any ideas?
You could just say a "reviewer" if it's a review, a "reporter" if it's a news story, or "writer" which works in most situations. J Milburn (talk) 21:33, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
  • "She later appeared on an episode of Chelsea Lately, where Chelsea Handler suggested the program was improvised. When pressed further, Patridge replied, "We're put in situations where however we'd react and that's what comes up [on TV]." She did state that there were no scripts, and Handler joked that MTV employed well-trained actors "if that's not a reality show", to which Patridge replied "Thank you, it is a big compliment"." I have no idea what's being claimed here.
Yes check.svg Done, removed that bit because the first sentence got the point across on its own.
  • "In 2008, cast member Whitney Port was commissioned her own spin-off series The City." This doesn't make sense
Yes check.svg Done, reworded.

Ok, from my first run through the prose, this actually looks like a fairly solid article. I've made some fixes to the text, but I'm yet to go through the sources in detail. The fact I found a couple which didn't support the material they cited worried me a little- hopefully, there won't be others. I'm also going to have my fiancée look through, as she actually followed this, so has some expertise I don't! Hopefully, you'll be able to fix up what I've suggested so far without too much trouble. J Milburn (talk) 19:53, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok- I'm going to go ahead and promote this article now. Though it isn't perfect, it is strong. I'm going to close with three thoughts- two a little more important than the others.

  • Firstly, make absolutely sure that the sources you cite do make the claims you're using them to support. It really damages the article to have apparently-but-not-actually sourced information, and, even if you're doing it by accident, it could land you in trouble.
  • Secondly, be aware of anything that could be conceived of as negative information about a living person (even if they're reality TV stars!) that isn't sourced to a very good source. The drink-driving/plastic surgery stuff should be setting off alarm bells.
  • Thirdly, and this is less important, be aware of overlinking. There are a lot of repeated wikilinks in this article.

Anyway, that aside, I'm promoting. Nice work! J Milburn (talk) 17:30, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Second read-through[edit]

Looking at the sources-

  • "John Bracchitta (December 29, 2008). "Report: 'City' star Whitney Port hardly works for Diane von Furstenberg". Reality TV World. Retrieved May 16, 2013." This isn't ideal- I'm sure you'll be able to find a better source for that information?
Yes check.svg Done, replaced.
I actually removed that bit, it looks like someone slid that in there even though MTV hasn't said which ending will actually be aired.
  • "Ryan Christopher DeVault (May 14, 2009). "Kristin Cavallari Replacing Lauren Conrad on The Hills". Yahoo! Voices. Yahoo!. Retrieved May 16, 2013." This looks like a blog
Yes check.svg Done, replaced with another review.
  • "Rocchio (January 28, 2009). "Lauren Conrad and "Lo" Bosworth moving out of 'Hills' home". Reality TV World. Retrieved May 16, 2013." Again, a source best avoided
Yes check.svg Done, replaced.

Some of the other sources aren't great, but they're not utterly terrible, and they're sourcing pretty uncontroversial information. I'll do a few more spot-checks, but the sourcing's generally looking OK. J Milburn (talk) 14:20, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok- the last thing I want to do is spot-check a few of the sources again, seeing as the ones I looked at previously didn't do so well. The article's shaping up very nicely, and I hope to be able to promote it in the next few days. J Milburn (talk) 22:02, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Third read-through[edit]

Ok, check some more sources.

  • "Throughout its run, the series was led by three (season 5) and four (seasons 1–4, 6) primary cast members, who were credited by their first names. Its original main cast members were Conrad, Heidi Montag, Audrina Patridge, and Whitney Port.[11]" The source doesn't say this. The source lists around 6 members per series, without specifying that any are more main than any others, unless I'm missing something?
  • "Upon the conclusion of the fourth season, Port moved to New York City after receiving employment with Diane von Fürstenberg and was commissioned to star in a short-lived spin-off The City." The source doesn't say this. It says that Port had 'employment' with von Fürstenberg, in New York, and it says that she is/was star of The City. There's no mention that she left at the end of the fourth season, nor technically a mention that The City was short-lived.
  • "Television producer Adam DiVello developed the spin-off program The Hills to follow one of its predecessor's more popular cast members, Lauren Conrad, as she moved to Los Angeles to pursue a career in the fashion industry" There's no mention in the source that Conrad was one of the more popular cast members.
  • "The Hills was often criticized for appearing to fabricate much of its storyline" Could we perhaps have a couple of sources here?

I'm feeling overall that this is not actually as well sourced as it first appears, which is a shame. These are just a few sources which are indicative of what seems to be a wider problem. J Milburn (talk) 15:33, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

I'll go through the entire article again and redo the referencing where necessary, I'd hate to see the article have to go unpromoted. WikiRedactor (talk) 16:58, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

I'll give you a summary of the revamping I did, hopefully it will make your life a little easier when you review it.

  • Conception: Changing Conrad's mention from a "more popular" to an "original" cast member
  • Casting: Added a few new citations to verify Port's information, as well as relocating most references in the second and third paragraphs to better source information
  • Storylines: Added a couple new references to verify the fifth and sixth seasons
  • Scripting allegations: Added the references you requested
  • The City: Added some references and reworded some prose to better fit the given citations
  • Other spin-offs: Some rewriting to match the information provided by references

My apologies that this has become the second tedious review you've done for me. I appreciate your help and patience, and hopefully other adjustments will be smooth sailing from here! Face-smile.svg WikiRedactor (talk) 18:17, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

While the article now looks good, I'm still seeing problems with the sourcing. Some more examples:

  • "Most installments revolve around the women's everyday lives, but the show puts emphasis on their personal, rather than professional, lives." As far as I can see, the source doesn't mention this at all.
New source
  • "warranting the question of whether or not the show was real." This isn't mentioned in the source article
  • "After leaving The Hills, Conrad appeared on The View in June 2009, were she was asked how she felt about her apology from Pratt involving the sex tape rumors. She replied, "To be perfectly honest, I wasn't on the other line of that call. That was filmed and I wasn't on the other end, so I didn't know about it until, so, no, I never did get an apology. He's lying"." Only part of the quote is in the source you cite- having only partially sourced quotes in the article is a real problem.
I believe this used to link to a video where the full quote was said, but I must have removed it. Anyway, new link added.

I'm assuming that the sourcing in the storylines section is mostly accurate, as the MTV site seems to have some pretty extensive descriptions of each episode. I hate to say this, but if I keep finding these, I am going to have to fail the article. J Milburn (talk) 19:37, 6 August 2013 (UTC)