Talk:The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

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Former featured article The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophy This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 26, 2011.

Talk Page Archived[edit]

Okay. The talk page was getting WAY too big, and it included comments from nearly 4 years ago, so I archived it. Continue old discussions below. Thanks!  Dylanlip  (talk) 15:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Screenshots[edit]

It appears that these screenshots were taken from an emulator, which is resulting in quite heavy aliasing. Can we please get some screens from actual Gamecube gameplay? Salgat (talk) 17:57, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Is that based on the fact that they were taken using a screen capture device, as stated in the rationale, or just an assumption made by you? Haipa Doragon (talkcontributions) 18:21, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
An assumption, as I have never encountered that level of aliasing during the several times that I have played the game. 68.40.99.176 (talk) 20:12, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Are you sure this isn't the sort of output capture devices should give, though? It should be reliable enough if that is the case. Haipa Doragon (talkcontributions) 00:11, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
There is severe aliasing in the forground objects when played on the Game Cube. Have a look at the King of Red Lions in the title screen, for example. 91.178.67.254 (talk) 14:35, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Sales figures[edit]

This game sold 3,07 million copies worlwide according to http://www.rpgamer.com/news/japan/rp033104.html, it is a reliable ref, used in many Zelda articles. Please add. OboeCrack (talk) 00:46, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

But....... is RPGamer identified as notable according to Wikipedia's criteria? (I personally hope so, since there was a sales figure somewhere in the article but someone mercilessly deleted it).--190.198.84.133 (talk) 22:05, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Urm...[edit]

Just curious, I was scanning through the article and noticed something - Aonuma is mentioned only once in the entire article as having developed it, and twice period. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:40, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

It says in the infobox that he was the game director. If you're looking for the specifics of what he did, it's possible that no one could find anything about that. I can't even tell you what responsibilities a video game director has. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:58, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
The infobox is lead information, and should be mentioned somewhere in the article's body. And plus, Aonuma certainly had a lot to say about it; through my years of watching the game develop, Aonuma conducted interviews and was a regular fixture for TWW. Also, he said it affected him personally how few copies TWW sold (as mentioned in PH's article). - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:06, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
You followed it through the development cycle? Do you still have access to those sources? Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 04:19, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
Nah, that's too far back, before I really concerned myself with keeping sources. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 10:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
I wonder if anyone else has access to them. How effective would it be to ask at the project page? Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 07:49, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
Well, couldn't hurt to ask. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:28, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

100 years vs hundreds of years[edit]

Seriously, the 100 years is a mistake in the interview. I understand that Wikipedia usually has to follow sources, but in this case it is obvious that the only available source is flawed with a translation eror. Is it really good to spread a false fact (that Wind Waker is set 100 years instead of hundreds of years afer OoT)? I mean, think about how many people are lazy and just look up a fact on Wikipedia instead of using multiple sources. They will all take the wrong 100 years as a fact. 91.17.63.113 (talk) 14:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Can you provide an equally credible source that does not contain such an error? As soon as you do, we can ethically change it to the correct data. Until then, the content of the article must not contradict the source, which has been considered reliable up until now. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 04:52, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Just look at the wiki page for Twilight Princess. It takes place hundreds of years in the future but that can't be correct if Wind Waker is set before it because of the world turning into a "Water World". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.64.201.181 (talk) 03:30, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

That really would require a source, or it would be considered original research. Besides, my understanding is that TP and WW take place on different sides of the split timeline; this statement, however, would also require a source. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 06:10, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Greatest Zelda Ever[edit]

I know this is not the place for this comment but I have to write this. This one is the best of the series, I really hope they make another Zelda where you have to travel the seas. It gets boring running around the forest and desert in every other Zelda game. The sea, gives it a whole new sense of adventure.--Az81964444 (talk) 04:29, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Please don't post your personal opinions. This page is for discussion about the article only. 72.241.19.67 (talk) 02:56, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Development History Correction[edit]

I am challenging this statement in the current version of the article, "Nintendo said nothing more about the possibility of a GameCube Zelda game until one year later at Space World 2001, where a completely new Zelda was shown." I counter this statement with evidence from the 2001 Space World roundtable, where Shigeru Miyamoto stated they showed off the Space World 2000 "tech demo" at E3 2001, leading people to believe it was a game in development [1]. This means that Nintendo showed off publicly the same video from 2000 again at E3 2001, before Space World 2001. Also, I would like to propose the following information be included into the history as well. At Space World, Miyamoto stated that the cosmetic changes to the cel-shaded look were already under way before E3 2001 [2]. --TSA (talk) 00:03, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Character page missing?[edit]

pressing the character link takes you back to the article.. where did the character page go? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.71.105.183 (talk) 03:42, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

From the article history - 17:34, 18 September 2009 New Age Retro Hippie (talk | contribs) (49 bytes) (No references or notability, so as it stands it's just an excessive plot summary.) Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Outset Island[edit]

Outset Island is the island you start at in The Wind Waker. When you start, 11 people will live on this island. You begin on Aryll's Lookout, sleeping. When you wake up, you'll have to go down the ladder.

Give Rose a pig and she'll give you 20 rupees. She'll give you 20 rupees for each pig you give her.

Heal Gramma. She will give you Elixir Soup. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.150.255.7 (talk) 01:17, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

GameWinners or CheatCodeCentral might be a better place to inform people of such things. Tezero (talk) 22:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Sailing image?[edit]

You know, for such an important aspect of the game, we never really see it in the article. The water effects were also highly praised, so it's fairly necessary. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Reception[edit]

In comparison with more recent articles, the reception seems lacking. It really doesn't mention its game of the year awards, or E3 awards, and I'm sure reception could be expanded. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:40, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Image of Windwaker[edit]

The title of this game is The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. Could we keep the only image of the Wind Waker in the article? Also why are we depicting Link flying on a deku leaf which is a relatively minor part of the game, and not him sailing which is a very big part of the game.

I would be for adding a zoom box on the Wind Waker, as well as combining the two images of style into one side-by-side image for better contrast, but there is no reason to remove a fair use image because there are four others on the same page that don't illustrate the same thing. --AerobicFox (talk) 02:14, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

It's a wand. That's described sufficiently. It's certainly far less impressive than Toon Link, the Dragon Boat, etc. --MASEM (t) 02:21, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
*edit conflict*
A an ordinary rock may be unimpressive, but sure fits in the Rock article. Playing music is also a huge part of Zelda games, and showing how it is played is also a significant reason to include the image. --AerobicFox (talk) 02:31, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
I do agree that the Deku Leaf image should be replaced with something showing Link acting in more traditional gameplay. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:28, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
I'll just say this; if we ditch one, I'd ditch either the Deku Leaf or Link blowing up. Either one can be used to demonstrate the HUD or demonstrate the graphical differences from the tech demo to the final game. The Wind Waker shot, though, demonstrates a prominent game mechanic. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 02:34, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
A game mechanic that can be very easily explained in the text. The explosion demonstrates visuals, and the Gameplay image demonstrates the main gameplay. Ideally, anyway - both Deku Leaf image and Wind Waker image need removing, but the former only because there are better alternatives. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:42, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Lol, why does something "need" to be deleted. Clearly the FA reviewers did not think so, and also the readers will likely prefer the added image. What does removing an image add to the article? I hope you are not thinking that Nintendo will take baseless legal action against their free publicity. --AerobicFox (talk) 02:48, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
WP's goal is a free content encyclopedia. The Foundation recognizes that for some topics, non-free content is necessary and allows for exceptional uses in those cases. It is our job to minimize the amount of non-free images, not because WP could be sued, but because it does conflict with the free content mission. We have to balance that verses the need to demonstrate elements to the reader, and what can be said easily in text. --MASEM (t) 02:53, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
We only minimize fair use when there are free images available. Using a fair use image where no other free image is available does not interfere with our goal at free content as there would be no free content to replace it with, but it does help the reader visualize our free written content. AerobicFox (talk) 03:30, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
No, that's wrong. Our approach is not use non-free media when a free equivalent is available. This can be text descriptions in lieu of visuals. In the case of describing the Windwaker, it's rather straighforward "To use magic from the Windwaker, the play must match directional symbols in time with a beat while Link directs with the wand.". There, no need for a non-free image. --MASEM (t) 03:33, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

"No, that's wrong. Our approach is not use non-free media when a free equivalent is available."
I just said this, the only difference is that you are interpreting text as an equivalent to an image, which it is not. A free equivalent to an non-free image would be a free image, not free text. The inclusion of a non-free image does not replace the text anyways, but adds to it. In your response you cite both a lack of need for 1. an image, and for 2. a non-free image.

  1. Since the image illustrates a relevant aspect of game play it adds to the article.
  2. Since there is no free image that can replace the image, we are not stopping any free content from being added to Wikipedia.--AerobicFox (talk) 05:33, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
No, WP assumes text can substitute for a non-free image; this is standard practice. If the goal of the image is to show the gameplay element (which is all that image is doing, since we've shown the art elsewhere), and it can be easily described in a few lines of text, the image is not necessary. On the other hand, if the image is showing an art style, that's likely difficult to put concisely into words, and thus we allow non-free since there is no free image replacement. --MASEM (t) 06:02, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
On this matter, I honestly think that we should fix all of the images, save for the lead image. Deku Leaf isn't representative of how the game operates; what if we could get an image of Link in action with the explosion in the background? In one image, we could depict the art style, battle, and the use of 2D to produce cartoonish effects. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:11, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

@Masem
"WP assumes text can substitute for a non-free image"
They are not equivalents though, and inserting a non-free image to illustrate free text when no free images are available has no downsides.
Being necessary is irrelevant. Whether or not it adds to the article is what is being discussed, and it illustrates an important game point, and does so non conspicuously within the article. Also, whether or not you dislike images in articles I can guarantee that the reader will, so I see no reason to unnecessarily remove useful images just because the article doesn't need them which by definition most images on Wikipedia are not needed, but are still desired. --AerobicFox (talk) 18:02, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

inserting a non-free image to illustrate free text when no free images are available has no downsides. Wrong - it ruins the free content mission. Non-free images are supposed to be used exceptionally, and we have determined that generally on video games, two uses are justified: the cover image, and one gameplay image. More may be added, but you have to show that they are absolutely needed, that the visual elements are critical for the reader's understanding and that there is no free replacement. A concept shown in a non-free that can be described in words is a free replacement. It's not an image, but that's not required, see WP:NFCC#1 which doesn't talk about an equivalent necessarily being within the same medium. This is a requirement from the Foundation, so while yes, it woudl be great if we could include a lot of screenshots to illustrate various aspects of a game, that just is not allowable. --MASEM (t) 18:33, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
"and we have determined that generally on video games, two uses are justified: the cover image, and one gameplay image."
I have not seen anything to support this, nor would I agree with it. Most video games will require more than one image to show gameplay and the game. Game reviewers typically use multiple images to showcase such things as in this review of Wind Waker that uses four images, or the various video reviews which feature several minutes worth of gameplay footage. There is simply no way to cover in depth many video games with only one image from the game.
"it woudl be great if we could include a lot of screenshots to illustrate various aspects of a game, that just is not allowable."
It is clearly allowable under the law, and I see no statements by the foundation or within policy to state that multiple images can't be used in a Wikipedia article to illustrate a game. If I have missed something please inform me and I will go look it up, but for now I am not understanding the criteria as not allowing for this many images. --AerobicFox (talk) 21:32, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
You are arguing from a "fair use" standpoint, which is correct, one can likely use multiple screenshots in conjunction with a review without violating copyright. But Wikipedia uses a higher standard, that we aim to be free content and only allow exceptional uses of non-free images. This means minimal use of these images.
We generally don't balk with one cover image (to identify the game) and one screenshot (to define a specific aspect of the game and to show the graphic style); that's minimal use but necessary to talk about the work. This doesn't mean we can't use more screenshots but there needs to be a very justifiable reason, as most gameplay can be broken down into various tropes describable by text. --MASEM (t) 21:57, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Meh this isn't worth arguing about. There is no legal need, or foreseeable reason that I can see that Fair use images would be so conservatively used when nothing could take their place, and when they add to the article, but I don't feel like getting involved with Fair use rationale. Go ahead and delete the image; this isn't going anywhere. --AerobicFox (talk) 22:16, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Image discussion[edit]

I feel that all images in use right now, at least with the Deku Leaf and the Spaceworld demo, could be replaced. For example, I was thinking for the first image, we could replace it with an image of sailing, an image of Link on the overworld, or of Link fighting the boss. As for the SW demo, I think it would better be replaced by the image of cel-shaded Link winking, and using it in association with the "needs-to-be-added" pre-release reception of the demo. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:46, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

I went through the game to make screenshots some years ago, maybe there's a good one in there that's actually representative of the most important gameplay aspects and the art style. [3] [4] [5] Prime Blue (talk) 14:12, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Review[edit]

Would anyone be opposed if I took this to WP:FAR? There are major sourcing issues (+tags) and it doesn't seem to be as comprehensive as it can be. Basically it's not an article that can be easily fixed and as it is it is not FA quality. Яehevkor 16:02, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree. The Gameplay and Graphics sections are completely unsourced, and it also hasn't been reviewed in 6 years. Cutecutecuteface2000 (Cutecuteface needs attention) 16:49, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

So, back when I was more active, the general sentiment was that Gameplay segments of VG articles largely don't require citations, as a description of the mechanics of a game can be sourced directly to the game itself, and that this should be so obvious of a source that the citation is unnecessary. In fact, it would be visually cumbersome to see the same citation at the end of every sentence. Has this changed since I've been gone, or are there statements that need sourcing beyond the primary source? Pagrashtak 04:22, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Possible Original Research Verification[edit]

The Graphics section may contain original research that might be of note, due to the game's uniqueness among cel-shaded games. Would an image of an example of bump-mapping be enough, or are there other sources needed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snesiscool (talkcontribs) 06:35, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, some additional sources are needed. Try to find a news article or something that discusses the graphics of Windwaker in-depth. A slight rewrite for POV issues may be in order as well. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 02:57, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
I think I will need to delete the Graphics section because so far, I'm the only one to notice the bump-mapping (because everybody only thinks of cel-shading when they see The Wind Waker). Snesiscool (talk) 03:04, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Cover art[edit]

What's with the bright yellow cover art? I've never seen a North American copy with the bright yellow cover, nor can I find any photographic evidence of it (an eBay search, for instance, turns up nothing but results with a more sepia-toned cover like so). Some other sites like Zelda Wiki list it as a "2003" cover (as opposed to the one I just linked, a "2004" cover) - but there's no source given for the change. They do cite the bright yellow one as coming from Nintendo's press site, but the possibility exists that it was just a promo image posted to Nintendo's press site that was changed prior to release. Can anyone provide any evidence of the bright yellow cover actually being released, or should it be changed to the more golden/sepia-toned version? --Guess Who (talk) 17:24, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

If it helps any, the cover of my copy of Windwaker matches the image currently up there, or at least is close enough for me. Is there anything else wrong with it, like legal issues or something?Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 03:56, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Plot[edit]

Removed a line that stated "There will be an HD remake in autumn 2013" (may not be an exact quote) at the end of the first paragraph that was redundant (this is already mentioned elsewhere in the article) and has no bearing on the plot whatsoever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.9.50.200 (talk) 03:30, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

2 Wii U version sections?[edit]

Currently there are actually two sections titled 'Wii U version,' one at the end of 'Gameplay' and the other at the end of 'Development.' I understand that this may be to provide a gameplay and plot perspective to the remake, however the two sections cover much of the same content and I fell it would be of much benefit to the reader if all the information was compiled into one place. Thoughts? DarkToonLinkHeyaah! 23:14, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

My first thought is to rewrite the two subsections to only include the information relevant to the main section (the subsection in "Gameplay" should only have gameplay differences while the subsection in "Development" should only have development differences). In time, it may warrant its own article like Ocarina of Time 3DS did. Counterthoughts? Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 02:57, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
Everything should stay in the development Wii U section. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 05:22, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

What about a part about content[edit]

May i suggest a new part called content? We can talk about what the game contain like dungeons, bosses etc? Is it a good idea or not? MicroMacroMania (talk) 14:26, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

That might be difficult. Official Wikipedia and project policy is that "fancruft", information that only a hardcore fan would care about, is not acceptable in a Wikipedia article. Unless you can find a way to make such seemingly walkthrough-worthy information encyclopedic, I would expect the Wise Ones to see it as fancruft and disapprove. That being said, there's no harm in trying to make it encyclopedic. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:08, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
@MicroMacroMania:Larry was super right about the first part. It's basic Wikipedian ethos (fandom, lore, etc), to believe that everyone's time and energy are totally and equally worthless, that all people are equally totally self-interested, and that people have nothing better to do than read, revert, delete, or edit everyone else's text daily. To throw stuff boldly against a wall and see what sticks or isn't scrubbed off by someone else. But it's not actually true. We can actually mostly know what's right and wrong before acting. Here are the links to the aforementioned policies, containing the aforementioned explicit bans on this particular material. WP:GAMEGUIDE WP:GAMECRUFT WP:FANCRUFT WP:NOT. MicroMacroMania, please read those and realize that the article already contains a description of the nature of the game's dungeons and bosses. I really hope that those guidelines and policies (and the stuff that's already in decent articles such as this one) will shape your desire to figure out what content is actually necessary, because that's how many good editors start out! You did the right thing in asking, and please do keep asking guiding questions. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 05:25, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Haha.. Dude I am already a frequent writer on Wikipedia.. I wrote most articles about tax systems, "taxation in Hungary", "taxation in Croatia", "taxation in Slovakia"... I made those pages.. I just havent edited game pages before.. But ok... Thx dude :) MicroMacroMania (talk) 08:13, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Right on. After my comment, I checked you out and expanded your super excellent articles. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 08:16, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Lol yeah I noticed it know.. Anyway sad we cant have pages about all content in the games for us mega fans :DMicroMacroMania (talk) 08:28, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I was gonna say that yes we can, as long as it's over at Wikipedia's sister site, wikia.com. Fandom and whatnot, is exactly what it's for. <3 — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 09:23, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
I am a HUGE Legend of Zelda fan, so I have Zeldawiki.org and Zelda.Wikia.com bookmarked! The wikias are where you go for pretty much anything there is to know about a game or franchise. There are a lot of wikia sites out there, so you should be able to find one that suits your interests. And don't feel bad about being called out by Smuckola. When I was new here, which was only a few weeks ago, Smuckola kept correcting me, but now I know what to do and what not to do! GameditorTalk 16:45, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Dude I am NOT A NEWCOMER!!11!!1 I just asked a question lol... I have been here for months...MicroMacroMania (talk) 06:21, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Link's Age[edit]

I just noticed that Link's age in the plot summary is the subject of a minor dispute. I'd like to see it resolved here before it becomes an edit war. I don't believe his age was ever mentioned either in the game or the Hyrule Historia, so where are the numbers 9 and 12 coming from? Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:39, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

I do not know either. I am inclined myself to delete the age. I think the age of 12 comes from SS:BRAWL on his trophy it states the following: "Link as he appeared in The Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass, with big eyes and an expressive face. He lived peacefully on Outset Island until a bird captured his little sister, and he came to her rescue. In The Wind Waker, he had to crawl, press up to walls, and the like. His green clothes were worn on his 12th birthday and are the lucky outfit of the hero of legend."NathanWubs (talk) 07:53, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
I wouldn't be opposed to deleting the age either, but you know that someone's gonna put it back and that will just end in some level of page protection. I'm gonna split the difference and put a citation needed tag on it; maybe Super Smash Bros counts as a reliable source, but I'm gonna leave that call to someone wiser than me. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 06:14, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Well sometimes protection is unavoidable especially if ip are the one doing it. But we can see what people can come up with. After all it does not have any rush. And if they come up with nothing we can just delete it later. NathanWubs (talk) 06:47, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Merge Request[edit]

RESOLVED:
No consensus to merge HD article, based on personal preference. In six months' time there were no substantive arguments each way, and none that demonstrated what coverage the sources support. – czar 15:40, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Moved from Talk:The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD#Merge Request: This discussion was happening on 2 different talk pages at once, I have copied the comments from the other talk page to this. Any further discussion should be continued here. The1337gamer (talk) 22:05, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

In my opinion there's very little new content in the Wii U re-release to warrant a separate article. The plot section is just a copy and paste, and even the minor gameplay differences are described in greater detail than needed for a general-use encyclopedia (as opposed to a Wikia or GameFAQ). I think we can expand the sub-section in this article rather than create a new one. For Chrono Trigger, Chrono Trigger DS didn't get its standalone article even though it has new boss fights and maps. Even Ocarina: Master Quest (which does have completely redesigned dungeons) is only a subsection of the main Ocarina of Time article. 01:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.248.181.22 (talk)

  • Support: There is definitely not enough information to warrant a separate article. There are multiple articles that include sections in development, gameplay and reception that cover more than one version of the game. --ProtoDrake (talk) 18:46, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support: I lend my support to this as well. I do not understand even how such an article could have been greenlit, considering how similar it is to this article. One of the unique parts of the other article is the development section and release section. But those are quite small so they should be able to be integrated to this article. Same with the reception section as well. That section also feels bloated because of the pre-release babble that is included. NathanWubs (talk) 12:09, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I think it would serve readers better to cover the new version in a section here rather than sending them to a separate article with a ton of duplicate material.--Cúchullain t/c 14:12, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support: per nom. Game is essentially the same, with an HD facelift. The development and reception sections of the Wii U version can easily be put here too. --Soetermans. T / C 16:51, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


Other talk page comments
  • Oppose - Plot and gameplay are of very low importance in a video game article anyway. I would support getting rid of 90% of the content of these two sections, and only summarize them concisely. Then, looking at the actual unique content, which are the important development, release and reception sections, I think there's plenty of content to warrant a unique article. I've never really been a fan of combining different games (such as done with Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U), so I would oppose to this merge. Merging the development, release and reception sections of this article into the Windwaker article might get that article out of balance. ~Mable (chat) 19:09, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
I could go either way too. On one hand, the game's are largely identical. On the other hand, I do believe the HD version did receive a lot of exclusive coverage, and elicited commentary for a few things the original did not. (One of the first Nintendo HD remasters, releasing the game a month earlier digitally, etc.) Sergecross73 msg me 13:57, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
If the issue is that it includes a lot of duplicate content from another article, then simply remove most of that content and see if the article holds up. I think there is plenty of original coverage here to keep it separate from the original game. ~Mable (chat) 14:56, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
When it's an issue of overlap, I tend to prefer merging. The content here really doesn't look too substantial to me - the Development section I threw together for Digimon Racing a few years ago is about the same size, and that was just cobbled together from some tangential E3 articles and stuff. It might have the potential for some expansion, and likewise so does Reception, but... I mean, I hate to ask, but would users really care enough for us to host a separate page just for that? We don't even differentiate console and handheld versions of games >99% of the time (the only exception that jumps to mind is Over the Hedge for the DS), let alone upgraded ports (e.g. Sonic Mega Collection Plus, Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, Resident Evil 4 for Wii, Super Mario Deluxe, Super Mario Bros. 3 for GBA [God, I miss that]). Why are remasters treated differently? Tezero (talk) 23:20, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep separate. I created the article for TWW HD because of the large amount of content unique to the topic. The two games have unique histories, and the gameplay differences are sizable. People often call games like TWW HD "remasters," but this one especially is a remake. It's a new game of its own right, with plenty of unique information about it. Reliable sources treat it as a separate game and indeed many readers will want information that applies uniquely to this remake. Resoru (talk) 07:39, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Enough unique content to fill an article. Dream Focus 13:49, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose. There is enough to be said about WWHD's development, reception, design, etc. that it would make this already large article be unwieldy if merged. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 14:09, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose per above. TheTMOBGaming2 (talk) 05:01, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Widescreen image[edit]

The image https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wind_waker_1080p.jpg should be replaced, because it's widescreen. It was apparently taken using a widescreen hack in the Dolphin emulator. It's not possible to scale this image to 4:3 without messing up the graphics.

To properly represent the actual original game, the article needs an image that is 4:3, not 16:9. Uncle Alf (talk) 14:03, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Too much negative[edit]

All of a sudden, an user who hates The Wind Waker has overemphasized the negative fan reaction the game got during its reveal and the first few years since its release. The use of superfluous expressions like "deeply mixed" is evidence of this. It's not taking into consideration the subsequent years' retroactive reception (for example, in an official IGN voting tournament, the game made it to semifinals where it lost to Ocarina of Time). --75.105.83.113 (talk) 14:25, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

I added the material, and I certainly don't "hate" Wind Waker. The deeply mixed early reception over the graphics is one of the most noteworthy thugs about the game, and it's well sourced here. It's my intention to add additional material on how the game's reputation has improved over time once I'm done compiling the sources. Hopefully, it'll be ready for a WP:GA push before too long.--Cúchullain t/c 15:57, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Notes for GA review[edit]

I've nominated this article for GA review as I think it's finally ready. I modeled the article after the other Zelda game articles of high quality, in particular the FAs Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. I made a few slight changes to their layout. In particular, there are sections for its initial reception by fans, and the fact that it improved over the years. I did this because this is treated as a major feature of the game's history in the sources, much more so than for most other Zelda games. On a related note, I didn't include info on The Wind Waker HD in the "Development" section, first because it has its own article, and second, because I felt it was a better fit for the "Legacy" section, since the remake was only done after it was felt the game's reputation had improved. Otherwise, it follows what they do pretty closely.--Cúchullain t/c 14:53, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TheSandDoctor (talk · contribs) 03:46, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I will start a review of this shortly. What I can say off the bat is that plagiarism is not a concern. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 03:46, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

My apologies Cuchullain for the confusion possibly caused by the review being restarted, however, it was brought to my attention here that the length of the reviews was a concern. Due to this, I am restarting the review.


Overall I do not see any major issues with the article, however, I noticed that the article could possibly do with some more citations?

  • "Nintendo's Zelda team initiated plans for a new game early in the development of the GameCube system, before Majora's Mask was completed for the Nintendo 64 in 2000" - source?
  • "... included a GameCube port of Ocarina of Time as well as its previously unreleased expansion, Ura Zelda." - source? If it is covered elsewhere in a ref, could use duplication here
  • "Nintendo presented a demo clip of the new game at the 2001 Space World, August 23–26." - source?
  • Although it may not be easy/possible to fix, I do notice a lot of WP:CITEKILL, sometimes 6 citations for 3 words. I would recommend either looking into WP:CITEBUNDLE or distribute the citations beside the information that they support (or prune them, although that is not the approach I would personally take).


That's it. I am placing this On hold until these concerns are addressed and shall check back here frequently. Thanks for your time and sorry for any confusion caused. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 00:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, TheSandDoctor. I'll take care of these immediately. "Nintendo's Zelda team initiated plans for a new game early in the development of the GameCube system, before Majora's Mask was completed for the Nintendo 64 in 2000": The cites follow the next sentence, footnotes 15 & 16. They verify the info in both sentences.
"... included a GameCube port of Ocarina of Time as well as its previously unreleased expansion, Ura Zelda." That passage and the two following are sourced to footnotes 45, 46, 47, and 48. Each of the cites give only pieces of the information. 45 is the one that includes the bulk of the info for the entire passage. 46 is about the Japan release with the bonus game called Ura Zelda, 47 is about the North American release with Ura Zelda named Master Quest, and 48 confirms that it was released as Master Quest in Europe. I'll add 45 behind the passage in question as well, as it covers that whole passage.
"Nintendo presented a demo clip of the new game at the 2001 Space World, August 23–26." This and the following 2 passages are cited to 17, 18, and 24; 17 and 18 cover the Space World demo passage. I could move them up to the end of that sentence as well if you think it would be better.
The WP:CITEKILL issue is going to be tricky to fix. In writing up those passages, I looked at all the reviews available to me (all the sources listed at Template:Video game reviews and a few others noted as reliable at WP:VG/RS) to find what was common between them. I preferred this to the way other video game articles sometimes handle things, where there's a quote at a time with no true indication that it's representative. As such it won't be possible to move citations to a more direct place with something like "[level design was praised] especially in the dungeons", as all five of those reviews praise the dungeons. At one point another editor went through and removed some of the citations, but it seemed pretty haphazard so I reverted it. We could do some citation bundles, but in my opinion that usually results in even more overkill - you have to copy the full citation in every footnote where it's used, which adds even more bulk to the ref list. But I'm happy to do it if others prefer.--Cúchullain t/c 17:03, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
@Cuchullain: Thanks for your response and understanding as I attempt to resolve concerns raised. Your explanations seem quite fair - I would just like to see citations closer to what they support, then again, I think that that could just be personal preference and I do see what you mean. As for the CITEBUNDLING, it was just a suggestion and I am happy to leave it as is. If you do not want to copy the citations closer, I do not see an issue with that, just let me know. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 19:21, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
I've rearranged the cites for your second and third comments, so see if that looks any better. Probably tomorrow, I'll take a stab at bundling at least the cites with 5 or more and see how that works. I'm down for either bundling the cites, or keeping them as separate sites, so long as all of them are kept for the passages they support.--Cúchullain t/c 19:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
@Cuchullain: I am satisfied with what you have and are planning to do. If you want, I can pass this review right now, or do you want to wait? --TheSandDoctor (talk) 20:17, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
TheSandDoctor: By all means, pass it if it's ready. The cite bundling won't change anything besides how some of the cites are presented; changes to the actual article presentation will be small. Thanks for your guidance!--Cúchullain t/c 20:22, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
@Cuchullain: You are very welcome! I have gone ahead and promoted the article again, thank you once again for your understanding and I apologize for any confusion this has caused. Now that I know a lot more about the reviewing process and have more experience, if you have any other articles you would like to have reviewed, I would more than happily do it - I only have one more re-review to do but I am waiting for the nominator to get back online from vacation. Any experience I can get I am happy for as I want to improve as a reviewer. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 20:26, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Have you considered DYK or attempting to get this article back to featured article status? While I do not have any experience with FA, I think you are well on the road to that. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 20:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
TheSandDoctor: Thanks! I thought this review went well. I hadn't thought about DYK, but I have thought about FA status. I'll have to check with someone experienced with video game FAs.--Cúchullain t/c 14:28, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Sales[edit]

User:JimmyBlackwing, you might want to go back over your edits to see what can be retained here.[6] 65.126.152.254 (talk) 20:43, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that. I'll see what I can do. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 01:58, 22 September 2017 (UTC)