Talk:Philosophy of the Unconscious

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Drop "The" from article title[edit]

Given that the infobox correctly cites Coupland's translation, which correctly (as in the German) had the title with no definite article, the article title should drop it. See also "Philosophy of the Unconscious", per [[1]] (Routledge, 1933, 2014) or here [2] 'First published in 2000. Routledge is an imprint of Taylor & Francis, an informa company'. Qexigator (talk) 07:17, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

+and see in Thinking the Unconscious Nineteenth-Century German Thought Edited by Angus Nicholls and Martin Liebscher, chapter 7, CUP 2010[3], [4] Qexigator (talk) 07:37, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure how the German title is relevant to what the title should be in English. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 07:57, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Why unsure? It is certainly relevant to Coupland's and other translations and reprints. The change should be made, with, of course, a redirect in the usual way. Qexigator (talk) 08:21, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Alright, I'm not unsure. The book's name in German is irrelevant to the name of the WP article about the book. The relevant issue is what name is most often used for the book in English. I would have thought The Philosophy of the Unconscious was more commonly used than Philosophy of the Unconscious. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 08:54, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
The title of Coupland is sufficient. Please note that your revert of my accurate and clarifying correction[5] is not acceptable. Why resist the obvious? Qexigator (talk) 09:21, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
By the way, articles about books never begin with the words "The book". The article on Mein Kampf does not begin, "The book Mein Kampf...", and the article on Das Kapital does not begin, "The book Das Kapital..." FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 09:11, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
That is easily resolved. Qexigator (talk) 09:21, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't grasp your point. What are you trying to say? FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 09:24, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Leave out "The book..." to read thus: The "Philosophy of the Unconscious...". Qexigator (talk) 09:35, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
You're forgetting you never got agreement to remove the "the". That's what the discussion is supposed to be about. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 09:39, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
What agreement do you suppose is required to correct so obvious a discrepancy and internal inconsistency, once it has been noticed? Don't forget that there is no need to defer the corrections in the article while we are waiting for the change of the article title to be followed through. Qexigator (talk) 10:13, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia generally operates through consensus. You simply have not convinced me of the merits of the change. Maybe you should request a third opinion, or something like that? See WP:3O. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 10:46, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Your reasons, please? I am not the first npov editor to notice that those unable or unwilling to offer sufficient, or any, reason for their position tend to invoke one or more WP, in a way which frustrates improvement, as if by deliberate prevarication or obfuscation. But I am happy to AGF, and you now have the opportunity to offer reasons for opposing the neccessary correction which my edit, amended as mentioned above, would make. While noting that you may have made multiple contributions in various names or IPs, from April 2012 to the present, amounting to almost the entire article as it stands, I observe that their appear to be few if any others who have, in fact, contributed at all. Qexigator (talk) 11:21, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
You are the one who wants to make the change, so it's up to you to offer reasons for it. I already noted that I found your reasons to be insufficient. Hence, it would be appropriate to ask for a third opinion, or maybe seek advice from members of WikiProject Books. You saying that I am wrong is not enough to convince me, but if someone else tells me I'm wrong, that might be convincing. And if you want to contribute anything of substance to the article, please, feel free. I'm not trying to stop anyone else from contributing. It just happens that this is one of several articles where apparently no one other than me has any interest in adding significant new content. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 22:58, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
You are mistaken about this: my reasons are sufficient, and you have failed even to offer a rebuttal. A desire to perpetuate manifest error should not attempt to shield itself in the name of supposed WP. Qexigator (talk) 23:09, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
You mentioned the German title of the book, which is irrelevant. You also mentioned that apparently two English translations of the book title it "Philosophy of the Unconscious" rather than "The Philosophy of the Unconscious". How do you know that the title is usually given that way in English? I suspect that if anything "The Philosophy of the Unconscious" is more common. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 23:13, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Third Opinion[edit]

A third opinion has been requested. What is the title of the most commonly published English translations? That is the common name in accordance with Wikipedia guidelines. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:59, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Permit me, if you will, to judge a book by its cover. I've performed a few Google text and Google image searches, and every time I've seen a scan or photo of the cover of the book there is no "The" at the start. Simply it reads "Philosophy of the Unconscious". Therefore, it is my opinion that the title of this article should simply be "Philosophy of the Unconscious".
As for some of the argumentation, this is an English article, so the original German name is not of consequence when titling this article. I am not sure where the "The book" line of discussion was going, but it seems to be tangential. SueDonem (talk) 00:16, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
Those links seem to settle the fact-checking point, but I have now seen a print copy of the Encyclopædia Britannica, 11th edn., and this may have been a main disseminator of the misinformation, giving "Die..." and "The...", which can sometimes be found in places where the work is discussed or cited. Qexigator (talk) 00:30, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
I seem to remember reading that encyclopedias are not necessarily reliable sources. Just can't remember where. SueDonem (talk) 01:31, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
If someone wants to move the article to "Philosophy of the Unconscious" I have no further objection. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 02:13, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
Meantime, the article can be revised, per reverted edits. Qexigator (talk) 08:01, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
+Done[6]. Please will some admin. or other adept now go ahead with the move? Qexigator (talk) 08:17, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
+Done SueDonem (talk) 19:43, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
For the record, normally any user can move an article. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 04:55, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
"permitted" ≠ "capable" in the case of some, including...Qexigator (talk) 07:41, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
It's really, really simple. At the top of an article, you will see the word "more". Click on that, and you will find a "move" option. Select "move" and you're taken to a form that makes it possible to change the article's title. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 07:52, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the tip, and for the consequential tidying on other articles. Qexigator (talk) 08:08, 19 September 2015 (UTC)