Talk:The Singing Nun

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Untitled comments[edit]

who many suspect may have been her lover too

Please provide support for this claim. The article is not encyclopedic without some backup. --Ed Poor

Actually, Ed, I don't see what the problem is. It does not state that they were lovers. It says "many" followed by "suspect" followed by "may have been." Yes, there were people who suspected it. They were living together, and they both committed suicide in strange circumstances. Were they? I am not prepared to make that claim, but any research on the topic will bring up that possible claim. Danny

I think this is unsubstantiated although probably considered correct. An oft-cited reason for their suicide was the financial failure of the home for autistic children which she founded. user:sjc

Hi. They were lovers, actually it is not a secret. They suicided together and rest into the same grave. But a question : what is this story about a children school ? I actualy never heard about that - I didn't read the book about "soeur sourire"... ( Jean-no, from the french wiki)

It doesn't matter!

Why do you care about who she loved?

At least she loved

The One and Only Worldwise Dave Shaver 09:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Jesus and John Lennon[edit]

What is the reference to agreeing "with what John Lennon said about Jesus in 1966" ? What did he say? TEF

John Lennon said "The Beatles were more popular than Jesus" (Which may or may not of been used out of context by a reporter). This caused a great controversy and many riots, boycotts, and protests against The Beatles especially by Conservative Christians in the Southern United States. Many radio stations banned their music and Churches held burning their records and merchandise. John, somewhat ashamed of what he said, apologized a little while after. The Beatles also stopped giving public preformences, partly in fear of their safety.--Hailey 13:52, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Reference to the lover[edit]

The Curse of the Christmas Single, from the Guardian - David Gerard 12:03, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure what it means to be "lesbian" but shouldn't the subject use the word to identify themselves? This article [1] says she admits "love and attraction" for her longtime companion, but was "unable to face her own (sexuality)". If you don't admit it I can't see how you could be labeled as one. I've said my peace.Tstrobaugh 12:33, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

What you said was a piece. A piece of what? Indeed. Peace.

I agree there's no need to label her as "lesbian", even if she was. But she was clearly "in love" with the woman she lived with, she killed herself with, she was burried with. Therefore, I don't see any reason not calling her and Annie Pécher "lovers".

Incidently, I know they worked in a school for autistic children, but never heard she founded that school. ??

Confirmed: her companion was Annie Pecher (no accent, at least on the tomb) [2].

I'm guessing the exchange rate was roughly 45 BEF to 1 dollar back in 1985, which would mean that $65.000 was 2.340.000 BEF and $300.000 13.500.000 BEF.

The article also calls Annie Pécher a "childhood friend." The 2009 film presents them that way, but that may be a fictionalization. Other biographical sources online indicate they met as adults. Annie Pécher was several years younger; a childhood friendship seems unlikely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:31, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Obviously wrong information[edit]

I just deleted the following: "In a great irony, the very day of her suicide and unknown to her, the Belgian association that collects royalties for songwriters (SABAM) awarded her approximately $300,000 (571,658 Belgian francs) -- more than enough to pay off her $65,000 debt (99,000 Belgian francs) and provide for her. "

Reasons: before the euro became the currency of Belgium, 1 USD was roughly 30 to 40 belgian francs. So $65,000 is between 2 and 2.5 million belgian francs. If she indeed received 570,000 francs royalties (I found one source citing the figure, barely enough), this equals to maximum $19,000. So even if she indeed would have received $19,000, this would not have repaid her tax debt. Asavaa (talk) 21:04, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

JFK assassination?[edit]

Many radio stations in the U.S. played "Dominique" and other softer hits more often in the wake of the John F. Kennedy assassination.

Huh?? What possible connection did this song have to the JFK assassination? It was a worldwide hit, not because of anything to do with JFK, but because of its (dubious) musical merits; that means that radio stations were going to play it anyway. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 19:05, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

LOL. Amen! They had nothing to do with each other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 03:20, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


"Lacking any receipts to prove her donations to the convent and her religious order, Deckers ran into heavy financial problems".

You don't tell what was the position of the convent. Did they deny they received her money ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Srelu (talkcontribs) 05:17, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Closing of her school[edit]

I have read various articles in several languages and one of the main reasons she made the synthesizer remake of Dominique was that her tax debts threatened the closing of the school for authistic children she founded. After the remake became a financial failure the school was closed in ~ 1982. As she felt the school was her most important work in her life the final closing was most probably what made her depressive and develop her suicidal tendencies in her final years. In the current version of the article it is just reflected that she had debts and commited suicide, but living under the principles of poverty she never cared about money and put the money into the monastery and her school for authistic children. I think the article should be edited a bit to reflect the source of her depression more. I can really recommend the german Wikipedia article and literature. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:15, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

From fr.wp[edit]

It would be interesting to include the following paragraph in en.wp: Les services fiscaux belges réclament alors à Jeanine Deckers les fortunes qu'aurait dû lui rapporter sœur Sourire, restant sourds à ses protestations. Elle fait appel à son ancien couvent et à son ancienne maison de production Philips. Si les sœurs lui remettent ce qu’elles estiment être sa part (l'aidant notamment à acquérir son appartement de Wavre, à la condition qu’elle cesse de dénigrer la congrégation et qu’elle signe un document pour solde de tout compte), Philips, qui avait touché 95 % des dividendes ne fait rien. -- (talk) 21:59, 28 July 2012 (UTC)


Hello, I have removed a couple categories because they were not supported by text in the article nor enough sources to meet the criterion in Wikipedia:Categorization/Ethnicity, gender, religion and sexuality, to wit: For a dead person, there must be a verified consensus of reliable published sources that the description is appropriate. Elizium23 (talk) 03:05, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I have just reverted your correction. The text clearly describes Annie Pécher as "her companion of ten years", and the claim is supported by a reference: note 9 says that " [Deckers] embraced her lesbian sexuality" (The Course of Christmas Single, The Guardian, 10 December 2004). --Ciospo (talk) 10:46, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
One reference does not make a "verified consensus of reliable published sources". Elizium23 (talk) 16:11, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
But three do. The Guardian article, David Mansour's and Jay Warner's books -- not to mention the French one. How many more do you need?--Ciospo (talk) 21:44, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Besides, we needn't feel compelled to categorize every person's religion, sexuality, eye color, and belly-button style merely because someone created the category. I'm not sure her sexual preferences are a big part of her notability. Eric talk 16:29, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
But they were part of her life, and since that particular category is considered encyclopedica, they should be mentioned.--Ciospo (talk) 21:33, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Being a "companion" may or may not indicate a lesbian relationship, and Decker actually denied that they were anything more than close friends. I agree that there is no "verified consensus of reliable published sources", particularly the quality, detailed sources. Slp1 (talk) 19:38, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
I have no idea where you have ever read that statement by Decker, Slp1, but the sources clearly state otherwise. This is an encyclopedia, not your personal blog. --Ciospo (talk) 21:28, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
So do we now categorize everyone who is/was heterosexual as such, on the grounds that it was part of their lives? Then do we make a cat for people who started out with one preference and switched to another? People who are 80% homosexual and 20% heterosexual? If so, we have lots of work to do, and I would be hard pressed to call it encyclopedic(a). Eric talk 23:28, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
"So do we now categorize everyone who is/was heterosexual as such?" Exactly. "Then do we make a cat for people who started out with one preference and switched to another? People who are 80% homosexual and 20% heterosexual?" This category already exists: LGBT. "If so, we have lots of work to do." Of course, it's Wikipedia, not a holiday camp.--Ciospo (talk) 00:03, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
For crying out loud this woman is notable for her song "Dominique" and the fact that she was a lesbian. Is there a reference to her in popular culture today that doesn't draw from the fact that she wrote this song and was a lesbian! See American Horror Story for the latest. Just get real people. Stopping writing gay and lesbian people out of history. Contaldo80 (talk) 11:31, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
Strange notion of what constitutes a reliable source! And one that does not at all make the statement about Deckers attributed to it! Esoglou (talk) 19:14, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
I am looking for a "broad consensus of academic and/or biographical scholarship about the topic" WP:EGRS. All I am seeing is a few sensational blurbs in music rags. Elizium23 (talk) 19:39, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure where you already looked, but it also seems to be in Sauvat's biography, Ollivier's biography (I don't have access to either of these AFAICT, but this is mentioned in the blurb in both cases), Simmonds' book of dead musicians (The Encyclopedia of Dead Rock Stars is a dumb title, but it's from a publisher that we'd probably consider reliable for any other fact), and a "probably" in a book from OUP. (It's also brought up in a number of memoirs, including some rather well-known like L'événement - I mention this not because they're reliable sources, but rather to show that not only can it be sourced, it's common knowledge.) –Roscelese (talkcontribs) 01:13, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Chadwick bio(s)[edit]

I've left the Chadwick link in Further Reading, as I would expect that it would be of interest to anyone investigating Deckers. However, it is self-published, so shouldn't be used to support a point in the article. Bromley86 (talk) 11:50, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

On relationship with Annie Pécher, again[edit]

I've retained a brief summary of the source. If we're going to go into more detail from the source to make out that Deckers was totally against the relationship and Pécher pressured her into it, it behooves us to add the fact that she had feelings for her for some time before their relationship was physical (another source calls Annie the love of her life). Ooooooor we could just use a brief summary without trying to insinuate either that Pécher harassed a heterosexual woman into sex, or that Deckers took advantage of a child. Enough of this nonsense. –Roscelese (talkcontribs) 14:37, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Please keep to what the source says. Don't set up a strawman caricature as an excuse for deleting something you dislike. The text that you deleted did not say that "Deckers was totally against the relationship and Pécher pressured her into it". Nor did it "insinuate that Pécher harassed a heterosexual women into sex". If it did, you would be justified in removing it. It didn't. It doesn't. So please let the article report what the cited source states. You accepted that source as highly reliable, so much so that you said all others could be set aside. This is what it says:

Gaylive: After she left the convent, she went to live with a woman friend. From that can we conclude that Jeannine Deckers was a lesbian?

Leen Van Den Berg: Since they first met, Annie was in love with Jeannine. She had a blind admiration for her. But the feeling was not reciprocated. Jeannine saw in Annie a close friend, nothing more. When Jeannine entered religious life, Annie kept visiting her regularly in the convent, and when Jeannine got leave to go as a nun to study at Leuven, Annie took care to find a shack in the neighbourhood of the house where Soeur Sourire stayed. When it seemed that Soeur Sourire would have to go to the missions, Annie fell into a deep depression and tried to kill herself.

As soon as they went to live together, Soeur Sourire made it clear to Annie that she did not want to begin a relationship with her. Though she had left the convent, she still saw herself as a Dominican Sister and wanted to remain true to her vows, that is, her vows of chastity and celibacy. In other words, she simply wanted them to live together as friends. However, Sister Sourire's diaries show that the two women, who lived together for more than twenty years, were growing closer, that she fought against her feelings for Annie, until from about 1980 they entered a lesbian relationship. For Annie the moment she had awaited for years, for Jeannine a tremendously difficult step.

Esoglou (talk) 15:40, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Including the phrase "11 years her junior" is insinuative of misconduct and not needed. Deckers was 33 when she moved in with Pechier, who was 22. They then became lovers when Deckers was 47 and Pechier 36. Can we not pretend that gay and lesbians are predatory child-snatchers. Although the Catholic clergy is stuffed full of cases of people in authority sexually abusing children, this doesn't seem to be one of them.Contaldo80 (talk) 10:51, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
What an extraordinary interpretation! When Jeannine Deckers as a young woman was in charge of girls at a seaside resort, one of them developed a crush on her that Jeannine Deckers was so far from taking advantage of that it was only when that young girl became a woman of 36 that Deckers agreed to begin a sexual relationship with her. Who else would think of that as insinuating predatory activity? "For Annie the moment she had awaited for years, for Jeannine a tremendously difficult step." Esoglou (talk) 12:36, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Relevance of Pécher's age when she became attached to Deckers[edit]

The fact that Annie Pécher was eleven years younger is of obvious relevance when speaking of her attachment to Jeannine Deckers. It shows that, whatever it ripened into later, it began as a preadolescent girl's crush on an older person. Esoglou (talk) 15:57, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

The accusation has now been made that the information is not in the cited source. The cited source, referring to Deckers, explicitly speaks of Pécher as "de onze ans sa cadette". Esoglou (talk) 16:12, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
Tantae molis erat ... Esoglou (talk) 17:40, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 19 February 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (non-admin closure)  — Amakuru (talk) 12:06, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

The Singing NunJeanne Deckers – This was her birth name, her name in Belgian law. As a nun she was called Sister Luc-Gabrielle. She had the stage name of Sœur Sourire or Sister Smile and her recording of "Dominique" was credited to her as "The Singing Nun" in the United States. Later she took the stage name of Luc-Dominique. "The Singing Nun" was instead the name of a fictionalized character in a film based on her, or rather it was the name of the film itself. A later film based on her real life was called Sœur Sourire (Sister Smile). Relisted. Favonian (talk) 12:19, 26 February 2015 (UTC). Esoglou (talk) 08:43, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

It is incorrect to imply she was never known as the Singing Nun herself. Her only hit record in the U.S., the #1 "Dominique", was credited to "The Singing Nun" on the single[3][4] and on the Billboard charts.[5] AjaxSmack  15:04, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
I was wrong. Still, her name was Jeanne Deckers, not The Singing Nun. Esoglou (talk) 16:21, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. She is more widely known as The Singing Nun. ONR (talk) 18:07, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
If, in spite of all the information in the article about who and what she was, people want to limit her to being the singer of one song and its marketing in English, we'll just have to be satisfied with that. Esoglou (talk) 21:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. It is rather a good example of where WP:COMMONNAME apply. – nafSadh did say 22:19, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.