Talk:The Trial of a Time Lord

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Former featured article candidate The Trial of a Time Lord is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
WikiProject Doctor Who (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Doctor Who, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Doctor Who and its spin-offs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this notice, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Television / Episode coverage (Rated B-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Television, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of television on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the episode coverage task force.
 
Note icon
This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the |auto= parameter.

older entries[edit]

We should talk about what exactly are the proper titles for each of the segments of Trial of a Time Lord and/or which ones should be given priority. The pages also need a rewrite, as they are very confusing. -khaosworks 20:46, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Well, Parts 1 to 4 are called The Mysterious Planet, 5 to 8 are called Mindwarp, 9 to 12 are Terror of the Vervoids and 13 and 14 are officially called The Ultimate Foe or Time Inc. Also, in Notes, number 2 is off-colour as the BBC actually agrees with that! Jashank 03:00, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, a lot of editing between that note and now. :) --khaosworks (talkcontribs) 03:33, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

mel[edit]

is it worth noting that mel came from the future to the trail but leaves with the doctor. she would be living the same things over and over again. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Billy turner (talkcontribs) 14:18, January 8, 2006 (UTC)

Probably worth a note, yes. We can also mention that the spin-offs have generally assumed that after the events of the trial the Doctor took Mel back to her regular timeline (his own future), and then waited until he would meet her for the "first" time. I'm heading out now, but will see if I can add something later tonight. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 01:07, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
The note probably better belongs in The Ultimate Foe. Terror of the Vervoids already notes that Mel comes from the future. --khaosworks (talkcontribs) 01:32, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Done. But it's pretty long-winded. If anyone wants to tighten it up, please feel free to do so — I was having trouble with the wording of the various "first meetings". What is it that Douglas Adams said about the trouble with time travel being the verb tenses? —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 07:04, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Example of parodies of frequent close-up of Doctor's face?[edit]

I'm intrigued to read in this article that the frequent close-ups of the Doctor's face in Trial of a Timelord were often parodied; do you have any examples of this, as I've not encountered this information before.

In Joke[edit]

The article states that
"A frequently used in-joke throughout this serial is that, during the showing of the evidence, the Doctor interjects with protests about the overly violent nature of the scenes. "
I watched the serial recently, and I can only remember one instance of this - and that was by the Inqusitor. StuartDD ( tc ) 19:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Trial of a Time Lord/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.


Overview of GA Review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (no original research):
    Strongly relies on a small number of web-based sources.
  3. It is broad in its coverage
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    At times veers into excessive detail.
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable.
    Yes. Low volume of edit activity; no edit wars apparent.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

Key Issues[edit]

This is a GA review. There are many reviews like it, but this one is yours.

The article falls short of GA standard in its present form. I'm not confident it merits the 'A-class' classification it has at the moment. With some work though you could improve the article into a solid A-class Good Article. You need to concentrate on two things: wording and style.

You've written up a lot of good information, but it's hard to tell; it's lost underneath all the overwriting. There's a lot of words in it that we tend to call $10 words -- "depicts", "surmises", "attempting", "albeit", "impeded", "noted". All of those have much simpler equivalents that won't make people think they're reading the SAT Verbal section. Likewise, avoid convoluted phrasings like "elects to choose" instead of "chooses" or "decides". Simplify, clarify, reduce.

Tone down the overblown phrasing and constructs. Remember, the user reading your article might be as young as 13. English might not be their first language. They might be learning-disabled. Your sentences are too complex for the average user, too. You're really fond of using semicolons and colons; while sometimes it's necessary, it comes across as heavy and hard to understand to the average user.

A readability test gives a rough indication of a work's readability. Some give an approximate representation of the U.S. grade level needed to understand the text. Here, take a look at some test results for The Trial of a Time Lord.

First, some context: 12th grade is the last year of compulsory secondary education, or "high school", in the U.S. Students are usually 17 to 18 years old. Most of those results place your article at 13th grade level. That's way too high! A different type of test, the Flesch Reading Ease test, gives a result of 46.1. An example: Harvard Law Review has a score in the 30s. Flesch identified a "65" as the Plain English Score.

The content of your article is good. Improving the prose will make it clearer, easier to read, and compelling.

Well written requirement[edit]

I strongly recommend a through copyedit. Please see the Guild of Copy Editors (and here) for information. The article needs clarifications from those familiar with its subject matter beforehand though.

Lead[edit]

  • "The Trial of a Time Lord is a serial that encompasses the entire twenty-third season of British science fiction television series Doctor Who."

The first sentence in the article is slightly confusing. We learn it's a serial ...encompassing a season ... in a series. Alhough apparently not an arc, like The Key to Time? The word arc isn't used in the article at all. Incidentally, the Trial of a Time Lord story is mentioned in that article with a beautifully clear description.

  • The third sentence: "No on-screen titles were given to the four distinct segments..."

The term "segments" is introduced without explanation. It isn't made clear the serial was divided in this way. A reader is left to assume its episodic format used clustering to form distinct subsets (segments), made up of a varying amount of episodes, as part of a whole set (serial). A little later the article talks about the plots of the segments, but their use is not explained.

  • 'Paragraph three: "The Trial of a Time Lord features the last onscreen performance ..."

The use of 'remaining' looks awkward here. The names Bonnie Langford and Melanie Bush are mentioned for the first time. From the text it's unclear if she is replacing Peri as the Doctor's companion.

  • "The serial was produced as a result of several production changes to Doctor Who; the reduction of episodes from twenty-six to fourteen prompted a different format than the previous season..."

This suggests it would not have been produced, period, were it not for changes mandated for the DW show. The second half of that sentence suggests the serial was somehow reduced from twenty-six episodes.

In Production[edit]

  • First sentence: "The serial was first proposed in 1985 for several reasons: the twenty-third season was postponed ..."

It's not clear what was proposed in 1985. It is the twenty-third season. Having another serial period? A new format?

  • "...the amount of screen time was reduced to fourteen 25-minute episodes;..." Presumably this reduction is from twenty-six, but it does not say it here. A Lead section should summarize the article content not give extra facts absent from the main body.
  • Paragraph two. Were the original writing team chosen to provide scripts for the season, rather than one for serial each to make up a season?
  • The article is inconsistent in referring only to the novelist Jack Story as late, not Robert Holmes.
  • Sentence two is very long. Shorter sentences are usually easier to read. This one has two redundant 'that's' and a 'then'. I suggest separating it into more than one sentence. A new sentence could begin: "Close liaison ...with..."
  • The In Production section has some needless repetition. Paragraph one says a BBC exec. wanted the series to contain less violence. In paragraph four, we learn the requirement the show should contain less violence (and more humour). Immediately this is repeated when we're told the production team stipulated there should be less violence and more humour.
  • The phrase "Little headway" (progress) may be difficult to follow for some readers.
  • Discussing initial reception of Robert Holmes's script you refer to it as Time Inc. (aka The Ultimate Foe). In the table further down you use Time Inc. as the alternative title. Which is the canonical title and which is the alternative? Excluding an early working title, it seems to be only known as The Ultimate Foe, according to its own article. Even more confusingly, the Serials list further down also gives The Ultimate Foe as an alternative title for Terror of the Vervoids.
  • "Holmes had to postpone...". You refer to "the fourth segment" in the independent clause here. You can just say "it" the second time.
  • Optionally, you could initially refer to Pip and Jane Baker as 'Husband-and-wife writing team Pip and Jane Baker'. You already link to their article though, which is good.
    • Pip and Jane Baker were commissioned at the last minute to complete the episode. The last episode? Had the penultimate one been written by that point? It's unclear.
  • The next paragraph puts us back to discussion of the second segment. There is a lack of clear flow.
  • Mission to Magnus seems to be a shelved planned serial of season twenty three. Mentioning it seems redundant. I would leave it out.
  • Philip Martin cited a "dislike of six part serials" This is the first mention of six part serials in the article. It is jarring to the reader.
  • Next Nathan Turner approaches Pip and Jane Baker to "quickly write studio-based serial Terror of the Vervoids"

They were approached to "quickly" write that, then later commisioned "at short notice" to complete the episode (or perhaps segment it's a little unclear) discussed in the previous paragraph. I can't tell if this studio-based serial was originally intended to be part of The Trial of a Time Lord, or a standalone serial in that season.

  • Check if this is what you intend to say. According to the last paragraph, Terror of the Vervoids had no location filming. Its studio filming was in mid-July, again at end-July, and again in Mid-August. The alternative (?) title (Time Inc.) crops up again in this paragraph.
  • Nathan-Turner commissioned a 45-second model sequence that cost £8,000.

Was this amount unusually large for those days, for Doctor Who, television generally, or science fiction shows? I don't know. You can't just put random facts in and expect your reader, who probably won't have specialist background knowledge, will know their relevance/importance.

Serials[edit]

Segment 1[edit]
  • "...is charged by... for transgressing the First Law of Time..."

In regard to trials, you're generally charged with something, for having (allegedly) done something.

  • The prosecutor intends to show some things. How? Does he show them?
  • Article mentions "Peri Brown" though referred to her full 'legal' name earlier. Be consistent. Elsewhere she is referred to as "Peri", "Perpugilliam "Peri" Brown" and "Brown". The WP:WHO Style Guide states companions should be referred to by their forenames.
  • "The Doctor and his companion Peri Brown (Nicola Bryant) arrive on the tribal planet Ravalox, approximately two million years in the future; concurrently, rogue Sabalom Glitz (Tony Selby) attempts to obtain hidden secrets and advanced technology that are guarded by a robot."

It might be easier to split off the part about the rogue named Sabalom Glitz into a standalone sentence.

  • "Throughout the trial, the Doctor becomes suspicious about evidence being censored and his TARDIS being bugged." This is poorly inserted. It does not fit in with the rest of the flashback-oriented paragraph.
  • "The Doctor also notes that Ravalox is very similar to Earth: their only astronomical difference is the position in the galaxy; and elements of Earth—notably, Marble Arch tube station and the novel Moby Dick—are present on Ravalox." This sentence about the striking similarity of Ravalox to Earth could be made simpler or separated out into multiple sentences.
  • "The Doctor and Glitz deactivate the robot for different reasons: the Doctor deactivates it because the robot's power supply is unstable; and Glitz wishes to gain access to the secrets." I can't tell from this sentence if they both deactivated it together, or one did so first then reactivated it.
  • "All of the parties" and "but the Doctor remains inquisitive on why". There is more difficult phrasing/language here.
Segment 2[edit]
  • "The serial's narrative shows..." This highlights a different style to what we see in the rest of the article. You need to use a consistent real-world (out-of-universe) perspective. A Good Article has to comply with this MoS fiction guideline.
  • "...shows the Doctor at first investigating arms sales;...after...he surmises that"

Again, very convoluted wording, with $10 words like "surmises".

  • "The Doctor arrives while a scientist, Crozier (Patrick Ryecart), is experimenting with brain surgery on a local king, Yrcanos (Brian Blessed), before performing on Kiv (Christopher Ryan), an influential Mentor." Rather than use commas in this way, recast the sentence.
  • "The Doctor is shown as malevolent". Again, oh my, convoluted wording!
  • "Specifically, the Doctor's transgressions are based on". Same wording problem as elsewhere.
  • "When the Doctor learns that Peri will be Kiv's host..." It's not clear from the context how: as in a symbiote/parasite, a dinner party?
Segment 3[edit]

More complex wording here.

  • "The Doctor's opening statement describes the segment as taking part in 2986 on the interstellar ship Hyperion III." Presumably 'part' should be 'place'? Regardless, the sentence still seems clunky.
  • "The voyage is initially unproblematic" This is really saying it starts well. Try to phrase statements in a positive form using clear, specific language.
  • "Vervoids are humans that were genetically engineered"

Here you imply (alien) geneticists transformed each vervoid from an original human. If you mean the Vervoid race origin derives through genetic engineering from humans, that should be made more clear.

  • "The Vervoids prevent the sabotage" Sabotage by whom? You should state this.
    • Additionally, you already said the ship is being sabotaged. Either the Vervoids prevent further sabotage, or prevent would-be-saboteurs from carrying out their plans of sabotage.
  • "The Doctor's suspicions" This could refer to several things: a fixed trial, the sabotage, etc.
  • "The Valeyard's questioning becomes more aggressive; after the Doctor admits that no Vervoids survived the voyage, the Valeyard charges him with genocide." This could benefit from rewording.
Segment 4[edit]
  • "In response to the Doctor's allegations the Matrix has been altered, the Keeper of the Matrix (James Bree) is called, seconds before the Master (Anthony Ainley) appears on the court's video system, which is linked to the Matrix, to prove that the Matrix can be infiltrated."

This sentence is quite long and difficult to follow. It's unclear if The Keeper is called to prove the Matrix is insecure and the Master is giving routine video evidence. Also, the article never explicitly mentioned video before.

  • "To ensure a guilty verdict to a neutral jury, the Valeyard falsified evidence: most notably, Peri's death: she survived the attack on the laboratory and married Yrcanos."

You use double colons, and multiple independent clauses here. All make it harder to read than it need be.

  • "are impeded by the Master's machinations: the Master is attempting to concurrently dispose of the Doctor" You could omit 'concurrently'. Also, the wording and alliteration, again, make it less accessible.
  • "is now fully aware of the situation" This sentence could be phrased better.
  • "The Doctor thwarts Valeyard by causing the destruction of the Matrix archive." Missing a 'the' before Valeyard.
  • "The Doctor is offered the Time Lord presidency; he declines, suggesting that she run instead."

Rewriting the sentence to use active vs. passive voice will improve it. He's re-offered the office, technically; though I think it's safe to leave that out.

Reception and analysis[edit]

  • "...Audience Appreciation figures had improved since the previous season—the lowest figure was 66% for parts seven and nine ..."

Presumably figures are for this season, but the writing is slightly ambiguous.

  • "... viewing figures for the season were considerably down on the previous season..."
    • Please reference, if not covered by previous citations in the paragraph. (In which case they should probably be placed at the end of that paragraph).
    • Vague terms of size like "considerably down" tell us little. You need to say how much.
  • "Paul Cornell, Martin Day, and Keith Topping, co-authors of The Discontinuity Guide, gave a mixed reaction to the serial." Had a mixed reaction? In the book? Here there's an overwhelming impression of too many quotes from one source.
  • "and, directed without much thought, falls between several stools"

In the original source, this sentence about directorial focus may have worked well. It doesn't here.

  • "They stated 'the plot hangs together remarkably well'. They said the 'opening shot is lovely' and 'episode 13 is a masterpiece'". "They praised..." This list of viewpoint after viewpoint looks quite disjointed.
  • "negatively reviewed" This phrase doesn't quite work.
  • "the serial in its fourteen-episode form." It was only made in one form.
  • "The opening sentence of their analysis stated that"

Some redundant wordiness here. Plus, unless you're giving a reference, it's rarely important when the sentence appeared.

  • "very difficult to believe that in the Time Lord legal system - or indeed in any reasonable legal system - the charge directed at the accused, and even the type of proceedings involved, could really be changed at a moment's notice seemingly on the whim of the prosecuting counsel".

This is quite a long quote, and you could replace some words with brackets. Alternatively you could paraphrase their point. E.g. scepticism/disbelief at idea of prosecuting counsel changing charges suddenly.

  • This section has a lot of information; at least about analysis. It's almost an 'executive summary', or 'scene-by-scene description', of each review. Much of this you can and should reduce.

Notes[edit]

This is really a trivia section.

  • You can tighten up the (repetitive) wording here. Example: "released on DVD ... as a boxset containing ... DVDs"
  • A 'four-disc boxset' is an improvement on saying the boxset contained four DVDs.
    • You could wikilink DVD. (Wikilinking boxset is probably overkill though.)
    • The Infobox template doesn't state it was a four-disc set.
  • "although prices varied from store to store" is redundant. RRP is Recommended Retail Price. In-store prices can, will and do vary from the recommendation.
  • The DVD release bulletpoint really belongs in a section titled DVD/Home Video release or similar. See WP:MOS:TV#Media_information and WP:MOS:TV#DVD_releases for more information.
    • While WikiProject Doctor Who guidelines specify British English, articles nonetheless cater to an international audience. When you do provide DVD release dates, you should include (where applicable) Region 1,2,4 dates.
    • Was the season (albeit without DVD extras) released on VHS? If so, you should include that too.
    • You give the release in the bulletpoint as 'November 2008'. Please add the date.
      • The template box still lists the old 29 September 2008 date.
  • If the DVD release info. is placed in its own section as it should be, that leaves an orphaned bulletpoint concerning Baker's final appearance. Perhaps try to work this into the main body? I can see how this'd be difficult though.

Footnotes / References[edit]

  • You cite website Outpost Gallifrey's news page as the source for the delayed DVD release; a better, more authoritative reference would be the BBC press office or 2Entertain.
  • Aside from the BBC episode guide page (besides your release date change reference), you use one reference—heavily. References should be drawn from a variety of reliable sources.
  • Linking the Outpost Gallifrey site under Reviews and External Links seems unnecessary.
  • Consider whether some External links should be discarded as they've already been used as sources. Per WP:MOSBETTER / WP:LAYOUT: "External links – Related websites that were not used as a source but provide further background."
  • Several paragraphs in the middle of the In Production section do not cite references for their information, which the GA verifiability guideline mandating references to all sources of information requires. Other paragraphs in the section are cited, and it seems the information derives from the same source as those anyway, but right now it looks patchy.

Other Items[edit]

  • Dates should not be linked (MoS). Dates are wikilinked here and there in the article, often for no apparent reason. Per WP:Context and WP:Manual of Style (dates), months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.
  • You refer to novelisations in the Lead opening paragraph, yet give no information on them in the article.
  • Dates shouldn't use th suffix (WP:Manual of Style (dates)). The Production section contains "On Tuesday 9th July 1985, all four writers travelled to..."
    • For that matter, telling the reader it happened on a Tuesday is excessive detailing. A GA article must be broad yet focused in its coverage. Similarly, you tell us they travelled there. Readers wouldn't care if the four writers lived there. Perhaps you could say they met JNT/ES at the BBC offices on date for FOO purpose.
  • Most inline references need fixing: Moving the cursor over a reference numbered 5 will show it points to 4, etc.
  • GA articles should contain images, where possible, to illustrate the topic. Broadly speaking you meet this requirement. In the article you use one non-free image in the Infobox, only. Sourcing non-free images for TV-related articles is difficult, and the article isn't that long. Ideally, you could use a picture taken by a fan during/after the making of the season could be used. It might be worth searching to see if any exist and seeking free use permission. I appreciate you may not ultimately be able to find any.
  • Per Manual of Style guidelines Lead section guidelines - see WP:MOS:IMAGES, editors should generally not force image size. On your infobox image you force a 250px size. Please check this is necessary.
  • I think the (WP:LEADCITE) Lead length while on the high side is within acceptable (usually four paragraph) limits. The article is 23 KB and around 15,000 characters, which normally correspond to a two or three paragraph lead. The lead has four paragraphs, but none are excessively long.
  • On the Image:ToaTL_DVD_cover.jpg image description page you use the {{Non-free video cover}} image licensing template box twice.

Progress[edit]

I'm saddened many problems brought up in its peer review and its three featured article nominations remain:

  1. First FAC nomination - April 28 2008:
    1. <strikethrough> Comment. ... I must express strong doubt regarding [nominator's claim few sources exist hence article having] lack of sources. - Vassyana </strikethrough> ... Comment. Withdrawn after research. - Vassyana

  2. Peer Review - July 17 2008:
    1. As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), dates shouldn't use th ...
    2. Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
    3. Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - "some", "a variety/number/majority of", "several", "a few", "many", "any", and "all". For example, "All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green."
    4. Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a. You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas."

  3. Second FAC nomination - June 25 2008:
    1. The alternate titles for Nos. 146 and 147 should be explained, perhaps in the "Production" section. It's especially confusing since the alternate for 146 and the main for 147 are the same. Bellhalla
    2. I've now noticed that you aren't consistent even within the article with the title of the fourth serial. Sometimes it's the Ultimate Foe, sometimes Time Inc. You list both titles, but don't explain why it has two (that I saw) and you should stick with one to reduce confusion. JRP
    3. The lead is somewhat difficult to follow. [...] you appear to be summarizing individual sub-serials, but that's not clear from the text.[...] JRP
    4. "Throughout the trial, the Doctor becomes suspicious about evidence being censored and his TARDIS being bugged. The evidence shows the Doctor and Glitz deactivating the robot: the former because the robot's power supply is unstable; the latter to gain access to the secrets." I really don't know what this is trying to say. I simply can't see the connection between the first and second sentences, although there seems to be one implied. Are there two pieces of evidence being presented, one showing the Doctor deactivating the robot and another showing Glitz doing it? Or is this trying to say that the Doctor and Glitz worked together, for different reasons? Gary King
    5. "The Doctor and Glitz deactivating the robot...", do you mean "deactivate"? If so, perhaps "The Doctor and Glitz work together to deactivate the robot;" Maury
    6. If production on Doctor Who was suspended, why was the series proposed? There looks to be a false cause-and-effect here. JRP
    7. Of greater concern is that most of your footnotes are from exclusively web sources. I will give you that the BBC here is reputable, but fansites should be used sparingly. (Even if they are as excellent as these! It's just not a good habit when you can avoid it. You have a lot more written references and it would be nice if you could use those instead of the fansite.) JRP
    8. The second paragraph in the "Production" section needs work. It's a little twisted and hard to follow. (Too many semicolons?) JRP

  4. Third FAC nomination - August 24 2008
    1. Oppose I'm saddened to see that there are still many silly errors in the article, (diff) Although I am happy to copy-edit articles when I have the time and enthusiasm, I don't like this increasing tendency to bring candidates here that are not ready. One does not have to be as talented as Tony to spot these problems. Graham Colm

Final Thoughts[edit]

  • The commentaries and documentaries on the DVDs may have information worth covering.
  • It might be nice to look at why there was a new doctor in the following season, particularly if ratings in this season were a factor.


I'm putting the nomination on hold for seven days to allow the issues to be addressed. Feel free to contact me here with any concerns. Whitehorse1 22:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

For reference, I am currently working on the article over at User:Weebiloobil/GA - weebiloobil (talk) 17:42, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
weebiloobil, thank you. -- Whitehorse1 23:32, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Failed: Article remains difficult to understand due to poor prose throughout. (I'm a native speaker of English, and have seen the series.) No real attempt made to fix problems reported. Whitehorse1 23:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

"Righting" the wrongs[edit]

I have replaced the use of "segment" with "part" as I feel that it answers the reviewers problem and perhaps simplifies the meaning. Please feel free to revert if this does not work. The dates have been de-linked as well. Glubbdrubb (talk) 21:12, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

You can visit my talk page if you want to help bring the out the best from this article. Glubbdrubb (talk) 21:29, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Copyedit[edit]

I've given the prose something of a facelift on behalf of the guild of Copyeditors. Not having seen the serial, I couldn't do much but rephrase, but hopefully it flows a little better now. Please review the changes to ensure any factual errors which may have crept in are fixed. Regards, Skomorokh 03:37, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Jargon?[edit]

The term "Gallifreyan law" is flagged as jargon. Is the term "Gallifreyan," meaning "of or by the principal language, people or government of the planet Gallifrey" really that difficult to understand? I mean, there is a link to the Wiki article on the planet and everything. Must it be spelled out as, for instance, "the law of the planet Gallifrey," when the vast majority of the people reading this article will either know that the Doctor is from there or will just click the link? I think this is an excellent example of why people joke that Wikipedians will flag things like "there are five fingers on the human hand" with the [citation needed] tag. Boomshadow 23:13, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I added the tag. Speaking as someone who is unfamiliar with the topic, I had no idea what "Gallifreyan law" was, beyond that it was law that had something to do with something named "Gallifrey". It is not obvious that Gallifrey is a planet or even a jurisdiction; compare the phrase Draconian law for example. I copyedited this article in response to a request to the Guild of Copyeditors from an editor looking to take this through FAC. The lead section of an article is an introduction to the topic, and must summarize the most important points without relying on either the body of the article or on linked articles. For more on this, see Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles#State_the_obvious and Wikipedia:Lead_section#Provide_an_accessible_overview. Ciao, Skomorokh 04:45, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
Well, the other way to say it would be "Laws of Gallifrey". You'd still need to find out what Gallifrey was (i.e. a fictional planet), but it won't be confused with something like "Draconian". DonQuixote (talk) 05:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
I tried to fix it. --Syzygy (talk) 14:56, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Real Episodes?[edit]

Sorry, I don't know what to title this as, but I was wondering if these episodes (without the trial interrupting them) were ever made by themselves, then added the trial around them. In the same way Star Trek showed The Cage (first pilot episode) through a court case with Captain Pike since the original episode wasn't released until the '80s. Nemmex (talk) 06:28, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

From the outset it was intended by JNT (producer) and Eric Saward (script editor) that there would be a linking theme of a trial (with the linking scenes written by Saward), the evidence at the trial to consist of three sub-plots, which would be written by others (such as Robert Holmes) and then linked into the main story by Saward. No pre-existing material was used: it was all commissioned fresh. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:42, 12 May 2013 (UTC)