Talk:Timeline of chemical element discoveries

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June 15, 2008 Peer review Reviewed

lead and tin[edit]

I took this out :Lead was first purified and clearly differentiated from tin by medieval [[Alchemy and chemistry in Islam|Middle Eastern chemists]]<ref name=El-Eswed>{{Cite journal|title=Lead and Tin in Arabic Alchemy|first=Bassam I.|last=El-Eswed|journal=Arabic Sciences and Philosophy|year=2002|volume=12|pages=139–53|publisher=[[Cambridge University Press]]|doi=10.1017/S0957423902002060}}</ref> as lead and tin were purified and clearly differentiated from at least Mesopotamian times. J8079s (talk) 02:57, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Here's a cite Ancient Mesopotamian Materials and Industries: The Archaeological Evidence By Peter Roger Stuart Moorey Published by EISENBRAUNS, 1999 ISBN 1575060426 J8079s (talk) 03:09, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

What is this supposed to mean ?[edit]

"The elements are listed generally in the order in which each was first defined as the pure element, as the exact date of discovery of most elements cannot be accurately defined."

What is this misconceived sentence supposed to mean? What does "defined as the pure element" mean ?? There is a problem with the word "defined". You can infer the existence of, discover, extract, measure, determine the properties of a chemical element, but you cannot "define" it. And what is a "pure element" ? All elements are "pure". Is the sentence intended to mean, the preparation of a sample of the element which is not mixed or compounded with any other element ? To what degree of purity ? For many elements, preparation of "pure" ( uncontaminated ) samples occured decades after the existence of the element was scientifically conclusive.Eregli bob (talk) 04:09, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Gold and Queen Zer[edit]

Queen Zer I suggest never existed. There are lots of websites that mention her and her gold or turquoise burial goods, but many are plainly humbug, for example many date her to 5500 BC. The earliest mummies are no earlier than about 3300 BC. I can find this reference [1] to a queen Zur, wife of an Athotis.

I suggest that Zer is a old variant of Djer(Aka Athothis), and hence not a queen. Gold was found associated with Djer, see [:File:CeremonialFlintKnife-Djer.png] for example. This site purports to have a picture of the gold and turqoise bracelet found on a human wrist at tomb O, identified as the tomb of Djer. I'll mark the article as "dubious".

"widely known"[edit]

In the "Recorded discoveries" table is a column headed "Isolation (widely known)". I have no clue what this means. What is it that is "widely known"? The element? The person who isolated it? The fact that it was isolated? 86.160.83.63 (talk) 20:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Smelting of iron / iron age[edit]

"The discovery of smelting around 3000 BC led to the start of the iron age around 1200 BC"

It needs to be clarified whether "discovery of smelting" refer to the smelting of iron or to the general technique. If the former, then why was there a 1800 year gap? If the latter, then it contradicts the statement earlier that "lead smelting began at least 9000 years ago". 86.181.201.159 (talk) 13:43, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Possible mistake[edit]

When referring to Carbon, "Samaritans" are mentioned. This might be a mistake. Perhaps, Sumerians are meant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.29.164 (talk) 10:57, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

I have improved the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.29.164 (talk) 15:14, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Not a good entry title[edit]

"chemical elements discoveries" is not idiomatic English. I would say it requires an apostrophe ("chemical elements' discoveries", i.e. the discoveries of the elements) or, better, should be changed to "chemical element discoveries". 86.135.115.218 (talk) 10:57, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Platinum[edit]

Platinum was known to native Americans before Columbus; shouldn't it be placed in the first table with a note about European discovery? - Soerfm (talk) 14:40, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Bismuth[edit]

Why Bismuth is in the unrecorded list when it's clear steated that it was discovered in 1753?OTAVIO1981 (talk) 15:32, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I was wondering the same thing. I've moved it under recorded discoveries. Skydiver (talk) 18:42, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Probably because of this. It was identified as a distinct element in 1753 but was known and used well before that. In that respect it is a bit like Zn. Double sharp (talk) 09:42, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 20:01, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Timeline of chemical elements discoveriesTimeline of chemical element discoveries – Per comment above, current title is not proper English. 86.146.106.166 (talk) 03:14, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

  • Support – This should be a speedy move, in my opinion. --Article editor (talk) 04:14, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Support. I agree that this ought to be an uncontroversial speedy move. 168.12.253.66 (talk) 20:54, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Chromium[edit]

The current entry for 'chromium' under 'Unrecorded discoveries' is inconsistent with the Chromium article which states:

"Chromium oxide was used by the Chinese in the Qin dynasty over 2,000 years ago to coat metal weapons found with the Terracotta Army. Chromium was discovered as an element after it came to the attention of the Western world in the red crystalline mineral crocoite (lead(II) chromate), discovered in 1761 and initially used as a pigment. Louis Nicolas Vauquelin first isolated chromium metal from this mineral in 1797."

--Kevjonesin (talk) 09:42, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

So the contradiction is with

"Chromium...Before 1 CE...Terracotta Army...China...Found coating various weapons in China because of its high strength and corrosion resistance"

with the reference Cotterell, Maurice. (2004). The Terracotta Warriors: The Secret Codes of the Emperor's Army. Rochester: Bear and Company. ISBN 1-59143-033-X. Page 102. Terracotta Army also says "chromium dioxide", using the same reference and others. Siuenti (talk) 12:38, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Also, the Chinese Wikipedia entry for chromium says "discovered in 1797". Siuenti (talk) 12:52, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for checking the Chinese Wikipedia, Siuenti.
It seems to me that the presence of 'chromium (di)oxide' on ancient artifacts is likely a weak, if not outright spurious, indicator of an early awareness of chromium as a distinct element. In light of which the chromium entry might better reside alongside other existing eighteenth-century (1700s) entries.
I did some 'snooping' as well. Found a chinahistoryforum.com entry examining the question in—fairly extensive—detail:

It seems clear the swords are not ‘chromed’ in the sense we understand it today, nor was the identified material used to coat them chromium as such, but a reduction of chromium in combination with other material (into Potassium chromate) and it may be that chromium was created in a reduction process rather than actual isolated.[2]

Much that is posted in casual articles about the weapons and their 'coating' may well be repeatedly recycled media simplifications/exaggerations. I'm thinking that unless some reputable scientific/academic source can be found explicitly attributing knowledge of elemental chromium to the ancient Chinese it would be best to categorize the chromium entry by the known 1700s dates.
--Kevjonesin (talk) 13:39, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Wait, the ancient Chinese Cr claim is back? I could've sworn we'd gotten rid of it some time ago: it seems to keep coming back for some reason. I've taken it back out and replaced the Vauquelin entry for Cr (which is indisputable). Double sharp (talk) 14:38, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
P.S. Bi has a similar issue, though (thankfully) that one seems to be resolved in favour of the indisputable 1753 date. Double sharp (talk) 14:41, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Zinc[edit]

When I typed in "When was Zinc discovered" in Google, it was discovered in 1746. But in the article, it was discovered before the Middle Ages. Should I change Zinc to "Discovered to Middle Ages?" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Erbium Is Awesome (talkcontribs) 22:49, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Rasaratna Samuccaya[edit]

He was not a person. This is the title of a book. Double sharp (talk) 04:22, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

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Antimony[edit]

I find the "in widespread use" for this element and the source given rather questionable. As far as I can gather, the sulfide (stibnite, Sb2S3), was used (in cosmetics) but not known as an element or metal until much later.[1][2][3][4][5] The "in widespread use" bit implies the element, not a compound. Kleuske (talk) 23:06, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

References

Moscovium - 2010? Really?[edit]

A lot of earlier sources (and even the Wikiepdia article on it) claim 2003, but why so recent here?

Same thing for the others. I'm sure flerovium was 1999 and livermorium was 2000.

Vandalism? Or something further?

8.40.151.110 (talk) 23:16, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

IUPAC. The 2003 discovery did not meet IUPAC's criteria; the 2010 discovery of 289,290Mc as daughters of 293,294Ts did. Same with Fl and Lv; the initial discoveries did not meet IUPAC's criteria, but the later experiments did. Double sharp (talk) 03:02, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
I changed it on the element articles for Nh–Og, this time with hidden comments to deter others who might not be aware of this from changing it back. You can see all the IUPAC reports linked at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Elements/Links. Double sharp (talk) 03:07, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
What about, say, Ds, Rg, and Cn? Were those actually later or no? 8.40.151.110 (talk) 01:53, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
No; for those, the original discoveries were confirmed. The IUPAC technical reports are here: Ds, Rg, and Cn. (Although arguably since the 1966 date from IUPAC for nobelium is from the date of publication of the papers, Ds and Rg should really say 1995 instead of 1994; I will change that.) Double sharp (talk) 04:43, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Note that after the IUPAC reports accepting the discoveries of moscovium and tennessine, there have appeared new articles noting some incongruencies in the decay chains (one, two). Burzuchius and I have remarked on this at Talk:Tennessine#Number of atoms and isotopes): the nuclides involved are probably still Mc and Ts isotopes and their daughters, but they might not be the ones claimed, and some of the more removed daughters may have been misidentified more significantly (the extremely short half-life of 277Mt to spontaneous fission that is claimed is rather unusual given its odd proton that should hinder this, but if it is not the daughter of 281Rg but is instead the granddaughter of 280Rg via 280Ds, then it would make perfect sense as the even-even 276Hs). So it is plausible that in the future IUPAC will push back the discovery date even further, when future studies confirm these two elements beyond all reasonable doubt. (The names have already been officially assigned and will not change even if that happens, as it did with nobelium.)

It is honestly rather a pity that IUPAC has not commented on the discoveries of the first hundred elements. Different sources often give slightly different dates for some of them, and there are quite a few truly controversial cases such as lutetium and actinium. Double sharp (talk) 04:54, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

The articles for Ds and Rg need to be updated as well. I see how Lu and Ac could be controversial. 8.40.151.110 (talk) 22:15, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

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Last stable element to be discovered[edit]

This article claims that "Hafnium was the last stable element to be discovered." The article on Hafnium calls it the penultimate stable element to be discovered. The article on Rhenium claims it to be the last stable one. I have no idea what's correct, just trying to point out the inconsistencies.--37.201.181.76 (talk) 12:52, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Re was discovered in 1908 by Ogawa, but at the time the discovery was not recognised. In the meantime Hf was discovered, and so when Re was rediscovered in 1925 it looked like it was the last. I'll fix the Hf and Re articles. Double sharp (talk) 23:31, 3 September 2017 (UTC)