Talk:Totskoye nuclear exercise
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Contents
Dubious sources[edit]
Even the first two references are extremely dubious: first one is an Ukrainian tabloid site, and second states in it's Russian header that "45000 soviet soldiers killed" as a result of the test, which is just plainly wrong. 94.31.183.22 (talk) 15:45, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- Have to agree with the IP here. I'm going to tag the page as such. NickCT (talk) 15:47, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- Ok... I've added an additional tag... Frankly, if this isn't taken care of in the near future, I'd simply blanket delete everything referenced to that Ukrainian article. NickCT (talk) 15:54, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've solved this issue and cleaned the page from factually incorrect information taken from dubious websites and added text based on the memoirs of those who actually participated in this exercise. Tabloids and yellow press are obviously not the right kind of sources for an article. 84.51.114.91 (talk) 13:24, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
- Ok... I've added an additional tag... Frankly, if this isn't taken care of in the near future, I'd simply blanket delete everything referenced to that Ukrainian article. NickCT (talk) 15:54, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Corrections (and possibly POV fix)[edit]
This article seems to be quite POV, as in "the Totskoye experiment was an inhumane and meaningless bestiality performed by the soviets" - while in fact it was (unfortunately) quite normal in those years. I've rephrased the text in order to make it less biased: i've added some sources, and corrected some errors. For example, the sentence "thousands are believed to have died as a result both from the initial blast and in the years following". Nobody was directly involved in the nuclear explosion: the villages in the range of several kilometers were evacuated before the experiment (and they were actually burned out by the blast). Also the description of the military operations is quite inaccurate, and it doesn't say that the radioactive zone was marked before moving the soldiers (that were going to simulate an hostile territory takeover after a nuclear attack). The experiment was quite similar to the ones performed by USA, UK and other countries in the same years, when radiation effects on human beings were not entirely clear and both soldiers and civil population were used as guinea pigs. Please note that I'm not justifiying it, but at the time the perception on the effects of these tests was different (and incomplete) --156.148.18.50 09:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Radiation experimentation on still born babies, and the disabled (while still wrong and unfortunate) are NOT similar to basically dropping an atomic bomb a few miles away from your own soldiers and then sending them into the radiation zone. Not to mention bombing your own cities, evacuated or not. And to call them "similar events" is ridiculous. I didn't really see a POV issue with this article until you added that, and made it seem like a normal everyday occurence for nuclear powers during that period of time. Which it certainly was not. I mean, I've seen some bias articles on here before, but this didn't really come across as one.Abalu 06:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)Abalu
- c'mon, dear Cold War warrior - go, look at this http://www.geocities.com/emruf6/adam.jpg 70.49.119.49 07:54, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Article about the event[edit]
{{split}}
Or other name.
And add this to Category:Military scandals. --84.234.60.154 (talk) 16:56, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I suggest to simply move this article to Totskoye range nuclear tests rather than split and disambig. The entire article is about tests.Biophys (talk) 17:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Similar US tests? Give a proof[edit]
I cite:
The experiment was similar to others performed at the time by USA, USSR, UK and other atomic countries,[1] and was designed to test the performance of military hardware and soldiers in the event of a nuclear war.
Please provide a clear proof of US or UK sending its soldiers over the epicenter just after the explosion. The reference does not mention such an expreriment. If for some time there is no answer, I will delete the statement. Best regards, --CopperKettle 16:54, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
- There is some mention of sending soldiers and officers in contaminated areas, but no similar large scale test just after an explosion, I mean. So the clause could be rephrased so as not to lead the reader into a false conclusion. --CopperKettle 16:59, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
- Have a look at these videos:
- There are other similar videos on Youtube and archive.org, just check them out. 78.15.140.72 (ttal:User talk:78.15.140.72|talk]]) 18:06, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
- An often cited example of problematic US testing is the Marshall Islands tests I think. The British tests in Australia were intended to measure the effect of fallout on existing, real agriculture and cities and the health effects were carefully checked at stations across Australia. The results of these tests however makes me doubt that even the majority of these soldiers died from fallout in this test. cancer rates Obviously rise but by a few percent not enough to outnumber natural causes unless you're talking about direct exposure to heavily radioactive substance like plutonium and usually that kills via radiation sickness a decade before cancer develops.
Something that doesn't make sense:[edit]
"The residents of selected villages (Bogdanovka and Fedorovka) that were situated around 6 km (3.7 mi) near the epicenter..."
If the coordinates, 52.642333,52.809167, of the test are correct, then it is impossible that this information is correct as both of these villages are far to the south of the town of Totskoye, and as the page states, the range is to the north of Totskoye. The two villages are about 7 miles apart so if the epicenter were between them, this would be plausible, but it would also leave a very small range for this blast to occur, somewhere near 52.276204,52.77689. It also puts the blast dangerously close to the village of Nevezhkino, unless the Google Maps is incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.230.74.130 (talk) 09:18, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
Longer term effects[edit]
No long-term effects are noted here, has any work been done about the impact of the radiaion on those within the blast? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:18, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
? - Use of Russian Sources Trustworthy[edit]
This article possibly breaches neutrality by using only pro-Russian sources. It might be worth checking out Greenpeace and other anti-nuclear groups for more reliable information. 58.6.86.173 (talk) 06:12, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- There is no such thing as "pro-Russian sources" here (science, independent investigations and declassified documents are not "pro-Russian", even if you don't like them), and the region has already been investigated by Soviet, post-Soviet and US scientists in the 1990s, as is clearly stated in the article. The main source is a relatively recent scholarly publication that includes precious declassified documents, detailed information on the explosion and radiation levels, memoirs of actual participants, etc. Given that most other sources are clearly less reliable, usually written by those not even remotely familiar with the exercise and often grossly inaccurate to the point of being ridiculous (thanks to yellow journalism and radiophobia, scholars in Russia have had to waste a lot of time dealing with false alarms and publications), it is undoubtedly the best work one could find. 113.179.183.227 (talk) 07:35, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
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