Talk:Tove Jansson

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It's clear that her partner is a woman from both the category "lesbian artists" and the fact that Tuulikki Pietilä inspired a female character in the Moomin books; but since the name isn't obviously female to a non Finnish reader there could be some confusion.

I know it doesn't really matter, but the article might as well state her sexual orientation clearly. --Starwed 06:33, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Good point, I'll try and track down a reference and then I'll add it. Might take me a few days though. Hiding talk 10:21, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree...I read this article and I was thinking, "life partner..." does that mean she was, really, romantically/sexually involved with this person Tuulikki? It's unclear from the article as it stands.--Zaorish 04:07, 20 March 2006 (UTC)


I forgot all about this, sorry, thanks for the prod, Zaorish. It's citable that she had a female lifelong companion, [1], [2], [3], [4], that they were girlfriends, [5], [6] and the British Film Institute describe her as a lesbian in this pdf press release [7]. I think there's enough sources there to support it. I would add it appears it was something of a secret, albeit perhaps an open one, in Finalnd: [8], but I can't cite a better source for that as yet.

  • I think the way the article reads reflects the sources pretty well, if you ask me. Hiding talk 10:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

The way it reads and why I'll change it just a bit[edit]

Hiding, you're right that it's not a big deal, and that it's pretty clear as it stands. However, at least from my USA perspective, famous gay people have long been described in encyclopedias and history books, eupehmistically', as living with "companions" or "partners" or "romantic friends." (Even the woman who wrote one of our national anthems, Katharine Lee Bates.)

In the USA this has begun to change, only very recently, and historians have slowly begun to accept homosexuality for what it is. I hope you will see this not as USA bias, but rather increasing clarity, for American readers as well as other English speakers.

So I feel this article should be just a little more explicit. I will do this myself in a bit.--Zaorish 11:34, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

No, I fully appreciate that; in fact it seems to have happened with Jansson in Finland and elsewhere. That's what I meant when I stated that the article represents the sources; the sources are just as inexplicit as the article. It was extremely hard to find a source that explicitly described her as a lesbian. However, one was found and I'd support the article describing her as such. I just wish we had a better source for the fact that it was an open secret; that would be relevant, I can't think of any biographies of Jansson off the top if my head, but I will stay on the hunt. Hiding talk 11:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, ok, so the source is still unclear. I'm sorry, I was confused--you said that the article, as it exists faithfully reflects the ambiguity of the sources. In that case, then let's not jump to any conclusions. I will go do some googling myself. Thanks for your patience in discussing this edit!

Thinking for a moment now, I come suddenly to the realization the putting hard boundaries on certain peoples' homosexuality, especially for women, is also a somewhat recent development. When I look, I will keep an open mind for such ambiguities.--Zaorish 02:51, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Cool. Any help you need don't hesitate to ask. Sorry to have confused you. I'm not sure there's any ambiguity about her sexuality, there just isn't much to actually cite regarding it, so it doesn't seem wholly relevant. It's also worth noting there's a reliable source which talks of her being engaged in her early twenties, so would we then describe her as bisexual? I sort of take the view that sexuality is something of a fluid affair, or a sliding scale, and unles a person's sexuality is notable in its own right, I always ponder if it is therefore necessary to discuss it in great detail. I'm not convinced Jansson's sexuality is important to her work, as such, although I can see an argument in listing Jansson as a lesbian in categories and lists where such lists have encyclopedic value. However, YMMV, and that's cool. Hiding talk 09:38, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
I see everyone agrees it should be more clear that she's a lesbian, but I never saw that anywhere in the article. I only recently even found out her partner was a women too which confused me a bit. Especially as I knew they were what Too-Ticki was based on and in the old cartoon (not the anime) Too-Ticki is referred to as a guy. It was only thanks to this talk page that all my confusion has finally be sorted out. But where is this info in the main article? Did I just miss it?--TailsClock (talk) 21:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
No, I think the article is just as it should be unless there is a specific and clear source demonstrating that she had sexual relationships with women. If we don't know that for sure, it would be wholly inappropriate to just surmise it--that would be speculation not information, even if the speculation is extremely well grounded. Her choice to live her life with another woman does not concretely demonstrate that they also had sex, so the article should not list her as a lesbian without clear proof of that (she and her partner may have both been asexuals who preferred female companionship, for instance). As it stands, the article discusses the facts and readers can make surmises if they want--that is as it should be. (talk) 17:41, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Comic strips[edit]

The page on Finnish Wikipedia seemes to state that there are nine volumes in the series, not seven as the article here states. But I don't speak Finnish, so maybe I got it wrong. Could someone check, please? Jashiin 09:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

This could well be correct, that there are nine volumes. The Swedish volumes I have only mention seven, so that's what I quoted. The list on the Finnish page does look like there are nine, but someone really is going to have to check, since those publishing dates are nowhere near the ones in the two Swedish books I have. It could be that the Finns decided to release the cartoons split up differently than the English or Swedish books.
(The main reason for adding this reference was in large part to alert English readers that there's some very interesting English Moomin material that they might not be aware of.) Regards. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 23:16, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I see. I think you're right and the Finns simply have a different edition. There's a webpage on the Finnish Wikipedia specifically about the comic strips, maybe it explains this, but we'll have to wait for someone Finnish to check it :) Thanks for your reply! Jashiin 09:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Drawn & Quarterly are confusing the issue even further, collecting the works in five volumes according to this press release. [9]. Hiding Talk 10:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps the ideal way to deal with this is write a separate article on the comic strips, listing them all and then explaining that different editions are available. This is actually easier than it sounds, given that the Finnish page for some reason lists all English titles. Jashiin 10:20, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
If we can get someone to translate that page, that would be even more of a benefit. Hiding Talk 10:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I made a request at Wikipedia:Translation/Moomin comic strips, I figure we can always move the article to a better name after the translation if needs be. Hiding Talk 10:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Thans for making that request! I was thinking about doing it myself, but I'm really no good in most things Wikipedia except just article editing (I know, I have to learn..), so I was kind of hoping someone else would do it :) Jashiin 21:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
It seems the Jansson cartoons are "canonical", if I can use the jargon, being in that they have the same artist, same characters, same writer. I.e., they are in some ways an extension of the books. Whereas a Batman or Tintin movie spinoff is quite different from the original artist's presentation, and belong on a different page? Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 10:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but we have separate pages for the books, and this is just following summary style. If we break out a separate article, we can summarise it back to both this article and the parent Moomin article. Does that make sense and/or address your concerns? Hiding Talk 11:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
That works for me. As long as we let Moomin book readers know there's something they are quite likely to be interested in. By which, I mean, the local bookstore asked me to bring in my albums so they could see them. They're seen as being part of the original concept. Contrarily, none of the Batman or the Tintin videos had the same "feel" as the originals. Anyhow, we wouldn't want to change the general Wiki format for this one exception. Jansson is close to unique. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 11:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
When/if the article gets translated, we can simply put a concise description on this page, so that people know that Jansson herself drew the strips, and add a link to the separate page ("Main page: Moomin comic strips", or a similar mention). Like Hiding said, its common practice. Jashiin 21:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I happen to have here the the ninth book of the Finnish edition, and indeed it contains as it's first story the "Fuddler's Courtship", the last strip drawn by Tove, followed by the "Moomin's Lamp", the first strip drawn by her brother Lars. The total number of volumes in this series is 24, all the latter ones were drawn by Lars. I don't have any Swedish versions available, but I can see from internet that the total number volumes in Swedish is 24 as well, and cover art seems to be identical, so I presume that applies to the contents as well. Otherwise, the books themselves have no names, just numbers. The names of the stories are translated already (my assumption is that they are from the original English language newspaper strips, translated by Lars Jansson himself) on the linked wiki page. Rxyz (talk) 22:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Also, to my knowledge, there are two different series of strips in Swedish, one consist of larger boks with four strips or something on each page, the other series only have one strip on each page. I wouldn't be surprised if these series differed wildly in numbering. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * (talk) 02:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Cultural Heritage[edit]

I think "legacy" would be better than "heritage" here. --Nasorenga (talk) 19:58, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


The minority of Finns who speak Swedish and live in the south and west of Finland, the finlandssvenskar or suomenruotsalaiset are called at least 4 different things in English. As it happens, the WP article is called "Swedish-speaking Finns" which is a plain and sensible choice for both that article and perhaps this one. That article immediately goes on to say "(often called Finland-Swedes, Finnish Swedes, Swedish Finns, see below)". Dear friends, it really doesn't matter which of these 4 terms we use, or indeed any of the other terms including "Finland Swedes" which soundd closer to finlandssvenskar but is now less commonly used. Tove Jansson was a wise and deeply peaceful woman. She would have wished us all to remain civil about this tiny matter. I doubt there is any "right answer", unless we all get used to finlandssvensk (that's the singular), of course. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:13, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Use of any of these equivalent terms (including the term "Swedish-speaking Finns") is perfectly acceptable to me if it is discussed on the talk page. Sadly the Jansson/Moomin articles collectively have been the target of a great deal of nationalism-motivated editing. Edits which are made solely to the citizenship, race, or national origin of Ms. Jansson or to the language or national origin of her novels are controversial due to the efforts of these problem editors to push their POV. Consequently, such edits must be discussed and they must gain consensus before they are adopted in the articles to which they were made. Of course consensus is capable of change but such change must be motivated by the merits presented in the discussion leading to new consensus, not by nationalism and edit-warring. The default position that I think is most helpful is to retain the current (original) wording for all issues of nationality/race/national origin until discussion changes consensus. -Thibbs (talk) 13:51, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
With regard the current edits, I say that if there is a good reason to change "Swedish-Finnish" to "Swedish-speaking Finn" (or even "finlandssvensk") then let us hear it here. I have no prejudice against any of these terms. My only prejudice is against un-discussed edits to these controversial areas of the article. -Thibbs (talk) 13:51, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

The Blagger's Guide To: Tove Jansson[edit]

The Blagger's Guide To: Tove Jansson (published 24 June 2012) in The Independent seems to be very close (in parts) to the content of this article. There are numerous unverified claims in this article here on Wikipedia. Here's the 22 June 2012 version, for reference. I'm dropping this note here to inform others that the Independent piece may possibly not be a reliable source, should anyone consider citing it. -- Trevj (talk) 12:34, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


-- Trevj (talk) 12:58, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


Sorry, but this is not encyclopedic:

  • "It is a work of charm, subtlety and simplicity," describing one of her books. We do not give oppinions, we quote other notable and relevent people's opinions.

IceDragon64 (talk) 19:53, 9 August 2014 (UTC)