Talk:Traci Lords

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Underage[edit]

I wikilinked "underage" to the "Age of consent" article. However, user Magog the Ogre seems to think that he needs to link "underage" to "Child Pornography". If he is that fussed up about it, why does he not change "underage appearances" in this article to "appearances in child pornography". I have linked underage to the correct article. Underage refers to the age of consent, which varies from country to country (with "underage" meaning not being able to give informed consent). There is no suggestion that any of her films were produced or advertised or viewed as "child pornography" Meowy 22:25, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I think the deal here is, "Age of consent" refers solely to sex. A 16 year old in many U.S. states is above the age of consent, and thus someone can legally have sex with her. "Age of consent" is a separate number from the allowance for pornography, which is a hard 18 federally in the United States. A 16 year old might be above the age of consent, yet if she were filmed having sex, that would be pornography. Based on these semantics, it seems incorrect to link to age of consent, as we are not purely talking about Traci Lords having sex. It doesn't really matter if they are "viewed" as child pornography; legally, in the United States where they were produced, they are considered child porn, and it is illegal to possess them for that reason. If she were over the local age of consent, then your edit would be even more wrong, though California oddly enough has an age of consent of 18. --Golbez (talk) 22:41, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Then why do you not change "underage appearances" to "appearances in child pornography". The link to "Age of Consent" is the only one that "underage" can link to. Age of consent does not refer only to "sex", it refers to having the legal right to give consent, and can cover many things, like drinking, or marriage, or joining armed forces, etc. Meowy 22:50, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
From wikt:age of consent, the only definition given is: (law) The age at which a person is legally considered to be mature enough to engage willingly in sexual intercourse. From the first paragraph of age of consent: While the phrase age of consent typically does not appear in legal statutes,[1] when used in relation to sexual activity, the age of consent is the minimum age at which a person is considered to be legally competent to consent to sexual acts.... It should not be confused with the age of majority, age of criminal responsibility, the marriageable age, the voting age, the drinking age, driving age, or other purposes. In English, the primary meaning of the phrase age of consent, and indeed the very focus of the article you're linking to, is consent for sexual activity. While the given article does briefly mention pornography, it also says: Main article: Child pornography. Which is exactly how it is linked now. Magog the Ogre (talk) 02:21, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
"Age of consent does not refer only to "sex", it refers to having the legal right to give consent, and can cover many things, like drinking, or marriage, or joining armed forces, etc." Not in the United States. We have multiple ages of consent - 21 in all states for alcohol, 18 federally for military service and voting and appearing in pornography, and ages for each state for having sex. The semantics of "age of consent" can mean a broad idea, but in common English, at least in the U.S. which is the relevant region for this article, when we speak of 'age of consent' we refer to sex, not anything else. As for why 'underage appearances' instead of 'child pornography', that actually comes back to something you said - they were not designed or expected to be child pornography, that's simply the law they ran afoul of. However, I have no opinion at this moment on that matter, only on your incorrect edit that "age of consent", as linked/expected, applies to pornography. It does not; it applies to sex. --Golbez (talk) 14:32, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
The article weasily, probably for POV reasons, links the word "underage" to an article titled "Child Pornography", not to an article titled "underage sex", or "ages of consent". Underage means under the age at which the law says a person is able to give informed consent. The age varies, as you say, from issue to issue. Are you saying people in America don't speak of, say, "underage drinking" or "age of consent to buy alchohol"? And there is already a wikilink to "Child pornography" in the article - so I am removing the duplicate wikilink that is in the intro. Meowy 21:07, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
I decided to also remove the word "underage". There is no citation to back up the claim that her "notoriety" was "first achieved" as a result of "underage performances". Her "notoriety" (seems a very POV word to use, btw) surely was "first achieved" by her appearing in a large number of pornographic films, not by her being under the age that the law allows persons to appear in pornographic films. Meowy 21:20, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
I can say with total confidence that not one person in the history of the United States has ever referred to the drinking age as "age of consent to buy alcohol." And you've removed WHY the appearances were notorious, so I apologize but I have to revert. There might be a link in the article, but the article is after the intro, idn't it. If you can think of a better way to put this, go for it, but as it is you've neutered any actual meaning from it. --Golbez (talk) 23:31, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Golbez kind of overstates his case (some people somewhere probably have used the term like this, albeit incorrectly by common grammatical standards), but that's correct, "age of consent" in common parlance does not refer to anything but sex - period. I've never heard it ever used for alcohol. Instead, we just say "underage" - no consent involved. Anyway, yes, the fact that she was underage are the primary reason for her modern fame. But we should be properly sourcing it - otherwise it counts as WP:OR. Also, I cannot state how famous she was before it was revealed that she was underage. Magog the Ogre (talk) 02:25, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

The wording seems more than OR. Even if a source is found, the most that should be said was "She achieved notoriety when her appearances in pornographic videos and Penthouse magazine were later revealed to have been produced when she was under 18. The other wording suggests that she, and those involved in producing the material, went out to deliberately "achieve notoriety" due to her age. Meowy 18:36, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
Sounds pretty good, actually. --Golbez (talk) 19:58, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

mistakes[edit]

The article contains a few mistakes.

  • Her stage name is said to be a tribute to Katharine Hepburn's character Tracy Lord from The Philadelphia Story or from the first name of her high school best friend Traci - in her book she reveals that it was just popular name at that time, nothing more.
  • Lords argued in her autobiography that about 80 of those films were composed from leftover and re-edited footage from 21 of her original films - plz show me this place in her book. "They referred to me as the porn princess and claimed that I'd starred in more than a hundred porn movies, as if twenty weren't enough" (P. 141). But it doesn't mean that she starred in twenty movies, do it? --Алый Король (talk) 13:04, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Deletion of encyclopedic information[edit]

Why was encyclopedic information deleted from the article? Orbitalatk (talk) 04:27, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

False praise[edit]

Her album 1000 Fires is described as being critically acclaimed. However on its own page it gets at most 3 stars. NPDW (talk) 01:49, 9 September 2017 (UTC)