|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Traffic collision article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
|Archives: 1, 2|
|Ideal sources for Wikipedia's health content are defined in the guideline Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) and are typically review articles. Here are links to possibly useful sources of information about Traffic collision.
|Traffic collision has been listed as a level-4 vital article in Technology. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as C-Class.|
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
|A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day... section on August 17, 2005 and August 17, 2006.|
- 1 World Wide View
- 2 Article title
- 3 Legailty
- 4 Car Collision*
- 5 Which car brand?
- 6 Images
- 7 History
- 8 Off road deaths
- 9 Plagiarism
- 10 Co tracts
- 11 Cellphones
- 12 something to add to popular culture
- 13 Why does "vehicle accident" redirect here?
- 14 Language
- 15 Pedestrians, push bikes, animals and falling trees.
- 16 Imprecise statement on correlations
- 17 "Driver Impairment"
- 18 Relative risk based on alcohol levels - replace picture
- 19 repture de la rate
- 20 contradictory result
- 21 Plz add section regarding suicide by traffic collision...murder suicide...wrong way driver etc.
World Wide View
DemonBarberTodd commented, "Too many refrences to statistics of the U.S. Like most people who use wikipedia I am not an American."
- I suggest that the problem is not too many U.S. statistics, but not enough from other parts of the world. Please add statistics from representative countries or regions around the world. I think there were recent reports from the UN and OECD that might have relevant information in them. --Triskele Jim (talk) 16:39, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
It is stated that it is an offence to drive away from an accident without swapping details.
This is untrue. It is merely a guideline that details are swapped. If they are not swapped, it is a requirement that the matter be reported to the police within 24 hours. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 06:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
- When talking about legality, you must remember that laws vary depending on where you live, the section header has a disclaimer regarding this. If you are referring to the UK laws specifically, if you can find a citation better than the one that appears in the article, you can change it. -- MacAddct1984 (talk • contribs) 16:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
- The word "accident" does not imply nobody is at fault; it implies the event was unexpected, unpredictable or inadvertent.
- There is a fundamental semantic and educational importance to this. There has been considerable debate around the question of whether accident or collision/crash are more appropriate terms, which hinges around the idea of whether someone has a crash as a result of a deliberate act or as a result of an unexpected event. The argument for using crash or collision, more or less returns to the point that blame is apportioned for the latter terms, and should be as most crashes are the result of a human error.
- The implication is that people "deliberately" have accidents by not taking care or driving irresponsibly.
- There is ample evidence that this is not the case. The vast majority of drivers believe they are driving carefully and safely most of the time. This means that using an expression that implies blame for unsafe driving means that they believe it doesn't apply to them, as they think they are not in the wrong.  
- The principle that "accidents are something that can happen to anybody" therefore makes "accident" a far more useful term, since it addresses every driver as someone in the risk group, not just those who perceive themselves to be driving dangerously or carelessly. Almost nobody has a crash deliberately.
- A key challenge for driver safety and education is to increase understanding that collisions can happen unpredictably to anyone at any time (ie accidentally). The biggest causes of vehicle crashes are distraction and loss of concentration - these are not deliberate or malicious acts. They are acts of omission. The greatest reduction of collisions would be achieved by drivers developing the habit of increased vigilance and concentration on driving. This requires heightened awareness of possible unexpected (accidental) events and conscious preparation for these. Diverting the focus to the idea of blame for irresponsible driving is counterproductive, as it only communicates to people who perceive themselves to be driving irresponsibly. Most people don't. The idea of accidents being something that can happen unexpectedly to anyone,is a message that communicates to everyone, however good a driver they think they are. This should be the emphasis on semantic, educational and public health grounds. On this basis Accident is a far more appropriate and useful word.
- Andrew Catlin (talk) 09:01, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
- I think you are missing the point. Accident has a connotation of an unpredictable, unpreventable event, and road agencies can't really do much to reduce the number of crashes on their roads. To the contrary, there are engineering measures that can be used to reduce the probability of crashes occurring at a given site. For example, Mendocino County cut traffic crashes on their roads by 42%, mostly by upgrading traffic signs. (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/publicroads/05jan/08.cfm)
- While it is true that most crashes have at least one human factor involved, it is a mistake to think that means nothing can be done. What causes driver error (or walker error, bicyclist error, etc)? Often, it's road geometry or some other environmental issue.
- As statistical methods get better, we can predict what locations will experience high crash rates, and whether a change in crashes at a location is a problem, or a random fluctuation. Using terminology that makes highway departments think they can't do anything about road safety is counterproductive.--Triskele Jim (talk) 19:36, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
- I think you are also missing the point. Highway departments are under no illusions about whether they can make infrastructure changes to reduce accident rates, and there are legally required reactive procedures to KSI accidents in many countries that require them to implement engineering measures following such incidents. The statistics are unequivocal; whether the word accident or collision is used in this context becomes immaterial. It is in the context of public and educational use that it becomes critical. We don't need to make highway departments understand the problem - they already have a better understanding than most.
- The biggest issue for road safety is driver behaviour. Most people believe they are good drivers and drive safely. They drive under the impression that they are safe, because they believe they are driving safely.
- There is growing understanding that driver education is now key to reducing road casualties. The Austrian Post Test phase has reduced novice driver casualties by over 30% since introduction, and in Sweden changes to driver education reduced casualties in this group by 40%. New drivers are the crucial group to aim for, as they are by far highest risk and represent the best investment, as successful measures will be active for the rest of their lifespan.
- Novice drivers are in the period of their development when they are least risk averse. An essential educational requirement is to heighten their risk awareness and promote active vigilance. The idea that an accident may happen at any time, however well you drive - and may equally be the result of the fault of another driver - is important. The idea that you have the power to anticipate and avoid many accident situations is important. That this is a matter of active control, rather than passive "good behaviour".
- In this sense, accident has a more correct meaning. However, ultimately it is irrelevant, as words change their meaning according to useage, and whichever word is used, people attach their own meanings to words that are as much determined by the context as the precise word used. More important is clarity on the message, and whether we are trying to communicate with "bad drivers" or "all drivers". If you speak to the former, most people aren't listening, because they believe they are good drivers. "Bad drivers" have more accidents, but most accidents happen to people who think they are driving safely.
Which car brand?
This image has the description "Citroen c4, 1 student died in this car crash in Egypt, on the Cairo-Ismailia road, Misr International University" while its caption in the article is "Toyota Corolla Crash in Cairo, Egypt".
- You don't have to be familiar with the specific vehicle models to recognise the Citroen badge on the middle of the top of the tappet cover, so confirming the brand took about 1 second after loading the full size photo. I also agree that it's a C4. If you look closely, the top of the bumper bar has a silver piece with a peak right on the edge of the photo, which is consistent with the upward point in the bottom of the grille of a C4, the raised section in the middle of the dashboard matches and the shape of the window frame on the back door matches. --Athol Mullen (talk) 12:30, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
What this page needs is not more images of motor vehicle collisions but charts and graphs of trends in MVCs. All but one of two of the car crashes can than been moved to a gallery at the bottom of the page.
- A map comparing rates in different countries.
- A comparison of rates of MCVs verses blood alcohol levels. http://www.erso.eu/knowledge/content/20_speed/speed_and_accident_risk.htm
- A comparison of rates of MCVs verses speed driven. http://www.erso.eu/knowledge/content/20_speed/speed_and_accident_risk.htm
- How rates have changed in different countries.
- A graphical presentation of what percentage leads to death versus other outcomes.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 07:44, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
- If it happened on a road, it would be a traffic death, since the legal definition of traffic includes riden animals. You're correct about it not being a collision death, unless a collision caused the fall.--Triskele Jim (talk) 18:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Off road deaths
In many part of the world off road death are counted as deaths from motor vehicular collisions / traffic accidents. If one drives off the road and dies it is still a MVC death. As we have discussed above none of these terms are perfect.
Most people do not however count death that do not involve a motor vehical. Thus if one is traveling by say walking / climbing / kayaking / horse back and dies without the involvement of a motor vehicle it does not count as a MVC related death.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:07, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
"Car collisions usually carry legal consequences in proportion to the severity of the crash. Nearly all common law jurisdictions impose some kind of requirement that parties involved in a collision (even with only stationary property) must stop at the scene, and exchange insurance or identification information or summon the police. In the UK it is a criminal offence to leave the scene of an accident without swapping details with the owner of the car or property or even to anyone else who asks for it.  Failing to obey this requirement is referred to as hit and run and is generally a criminal offence. However, most claims are settled without recourse to law. In this case, assuming that both parties carry adequate insurance, the claim is often handled between the two insurers. There may be financial penalties involved, such as an excess or deductible payment and a loss of a no-claims bonus or higher future premiums.
Depending upon the circumstances, parties involved in an incident may face criminal liability, civil liability, or both. Usually, the state starts a criminal prosecution only if someone is severely injured or killed, or if one of the drivers involved was acting illegally or clearly grossly negligent or intoxicated or otherwise impaired at the time the accident occurred. Criminal charges might include driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs, driving without due care (UK), assault with a deadly weapon (USA), manslaughter, or murder; penalties range from fines to jail time (USA) to prison time to death (where applicable). It is notable that the penalties for killing and injuring with motor vehicles are often very much less than for other actions with similar outcomes.
As for civil liability, in places where healthcare is mainly provided through private insurance, such as the USA, automobile accident personal injury lawsuits have become the most common type of tort. Because of pre-existing case law, the courts usually need to decide only the factual questions of who is at fault, and their percentage of fault, as well as how much must be paid out in damages to the injured plaintiff by the defendant's insurer.
For lesser offences civil action may result in fines or collecting points that invalidate the driver's licence, through a central government agency. Such complaints may be filed by a police officer, by other witnesses of an incident, or through remote enforcement such as CCTV or speed cameras. Some jurisdictions (notably US states) directly administer fines or suspend licenses imposed by civil or criminal authorities when a driver has violated the rules of the road and thus the terms of a driver's license. In some jurisdictions such administrative penalties may be imposed through quasi-criminal infractions; other jurisdictions do not recognize infractions and charge all violations, at a minimum, as misdemeanours or felonies.
Some argue that the effect of a loss or injury due to a crash can be equivalent to that of a victim of crime under criminal law. Several campaigning organisations that provide support mechanisms also seek out an equivalent status within their jurisdictions or draw attention to particular road safety issues and attitudes with the intention of introducing law reform (e.g. MADD)."
This whole area contains a massive number of co tracts containing snippets of related information. Will try to address some of it. It does not help that every country uses a different term to describe MVCs.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
something to add to popular culture
I think the movie death proof by quentin tarantino should be added because the plot is similar to the other books/films listed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 01:39, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Why does "vehicle accident" redirect here?
"Vehicle" includes boats and airplanes, which also (unfortunately) have accidents (in which people are injured and killed) so why do we have a redirect to this article, with its relatively narrow focus? I propose that either this article be expanded to acknowledge that vehicles besides cars are involved in (serious, life-threatening) accidents, or else we create a new article covering the actual, full range of vehicle accidents.--TyrS (talk) 04:04, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Makes sense, though "accident" isn't a word you want to use as it already implies an interpretation on the cause "oh, an accident". This is why Road Traffic Collision is the current acronym used by many police and related services to an event involving one or more vehicles. Maybe Vehicle accident should redirect to this page, Airplane Crash, something for boats, spacecraft, etc. SteveLoughran (talk) 15:55, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- I have no idea, but to help others find it and hopefully explain, it's in the final column heading in this table. Hope this helps. HiLo48 (talk) 22:16, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Pedestrians, push bikes, animals and falling trees.
- Pretty sure it's not intentional. Please feel free to add relevant content referenced to reliable sources. HiLo48 (talk) 11:48, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
I thought of that but the whole structure of the article is based on car crashes (even though the title has been changed) with a nod or two to motor bikes, so it is difficult to see where the contributions of pedestrians, push bikes and falling trees (ie acts of god) fit in.Ppeetteerr (talk) 12:10, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
OK, thinking more - a possible approach would be a higher level article such as "Dangers of Travelling" which could deal with all forms of travel putting them in relative context and then allow a selection to go to e.g. Air, Rail, Sea, Road, Other. Then the road one could branch to e.g. Motor Vehicles, Pedestrians, Natural Events etc, the Motor Vehicles one could then branch to the current article, Freight, Coach Travel etc. I see some benefit in applying the same structure to the Diabetes articles (at least), where a high level one could help to decide which of the existing articles is the one required. I haven't explored the whole of Wikipedia yet (joke) as I keep getting sidetracked by the links, but I expect there are other subject areas that could benefit from such a hierarchical approach - how would this sit with other people? And would it be more useful to ask about in a more general forum than this particular article.Ppeetteerr (talk) 12:41, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Imprecise statement on correlations
"(a) The percentage of the total state highway mileage that is rural. (b) The percent increase in motor vehicle registration. (c) The extent of motor vehicle inspection. (d) The percentage of state-administered highway that is surfaced. (e) The average yearly minimum temperature. (f) The income per capita. " Do these have negative or positive correlations? Intuitively, I would guess that some are neg and some pos. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 02:29, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
As a young person myself, I have to take issue with the classification of age as a "driver impairment". While I will acknowledge that there is a higher incidence of collisions amongst the young and the elderly, "Driver Impairment" seems an inappropriate section to relay this information. As age is not, itself, a cause of car crash, I propose that the information in question be moved to the section "Epidemiology", as I feel that would be a more appropriate place to convey that information. Sherlockian87 (talk) 02:22, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Relative risk based on alcohol levels - replace picture
Hi. There is File:Relative_risk_of_an_accident_based_on_blood_alcohol_levels_.png now used in the text. I think we can replace it with much better (in terms of statistics and reliability) with this WHO picture: File:WHO_BAC_Relative_risk.png (More links and quotes are listed at file pages in Commons).
What is wrong with File:Relative_risk_of_an_accident_based_on_blood_alcohol_levels_.png? - it is based on single Australian study (page 54) (Adelaide) from 1997, which itself was taked from 1979-1980 paper (page 25) from Adelaide. In this paper there were 1500 drivers total; but most notable digit, 30% risk, is calculated only from 23 people.
On the other side, File:WHO_BAC_Relative_risk.png is part of WHO report World report on road traffic injury prevention from 2004; and data is taken from 4 different papers. It has more points along BAC axis, around 9; (there were only 6 groups in Adelaide statistics: "0; 0.01-0.03; 0.04-0.06; 0.07-0.09; 0.10-0.14; >0.15"). In WHO report there were 15000 drivers (Compton). Also from Compton (2002):
Also, the measurement of BAC level has improved greatly over the last 30+ years, statistical techniques have become much more sophisticated
repture de la rate
This is not strictly correct: "An RAC survey of British drivers found that most thought they were better than average drivers; a contradictory result showing overconfidence in their abilities." If we define some measure of badness, and the distribution is skewed in that direction, it's entirely possible for "most" drivers (the median) to be to the left of the "average" (the mean). This would happen if a few really bad drivers skew the mean to the right. If we had a ref to the RAC survey we could probably clear this up. Kendall-K1 (talk) 13:27, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
- In my two decades as a traffic engineer, I have not seen anything that leads me to believe that driver skill varies much from a standard distribution. Imho, confirmation bias and Dunning-Kruger are more likely explanations. --Triskele Jim 21:40, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
- The ref was there, I just didn't look hard enough. It says, "78 per cent of motorists rate their own driving highly whilst few think others are very good behind the wheel." Also, "the survey shows motorists are not as good as they think they are." Given that, and your observation, I guess I'm happy with the wording as-is. Thanks. Kendall-K1 (talk) 00:07, 25 November 2013 (UTC)