Talk:Tsolyáni language

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Phonology[edit]

Reading Barker's The Tsolyáni Language, I get the impression a few of the API signs shown here are off:

  • tl should not be /ɬ/ but /tɬ/ (see Nahuatl#Consonants; Barker states "tl" is the "tl" of Aztec, a "voiceless lateral dental affricate")
  • ll should not be /lː/ but /ɬ/ (see Welsh_language#Consonants; Barker states "hl" is the "ll" of Welsh, a "voiceless lateral dental fricative")
  • r should not be /r/ but /ɾ/ (see Spanish_language#Sounds; Barker states "r" is the "r" of Spanish "pero", a "voiced dental single-tap vibrant", and further states that a doubled "rr" produces a trill, as in Spanish "perro")

For the vowels, Barker states the single-glyph diphtongs are still pronounced as if the letters were separate, but the table shows varying sounds:

  • a /a/, ai /ɑɪ/, au /ɑʊ/ (should be a /ɑ/ throughout)
  • oi /ɔɪ/, o /o/ (should be o /o/ throughout)
  • u /u/, au /ɑʊ/ (should be u /u/ throughout)
  • i /i/, ai /ɑɪ/, oi /ɔɪ/ (should be i /i/ throughout)
  • ü /y/ should have the alternate pronunciation /ɯ/ (eastern Tsolyánu, court Tsolyáni)

Urhixidur 20:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, what is this "hl" consonant? According to the phonological table presented, it differs from the "ll" phoneme (which has incorrectly been listed in the voiced column), but the symbol used [ƚ] is not an IPA symbol, and doesn't mean anything. Is hl supposed to be [l̥]? Is ll supposed to be [ɮ]? I just don't know... Wierdw123 03:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

"hl" /ɬ/ is Unicode #x026C, Latin small letter L with belt, in the IPA extensions. It represents the "voiceless alveolar lateral fricative", and is also used in kaffir languages. Urhixidur (talk) 14:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, it has been fixed now, but this file used to say that there was a difference between hl /ƚ/ and ll /ɬ/. The former of which is not an IPA symbol, and therefore does not mean anything. I'm still not sure whether there is a difference between hl and ll, but ll seems to have been removed. Wierdw123 (talk) 21:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

The phonology section of this article needs to be fixed:

  • First off, the statement that the inclusion of "hl" /ɬ/ and "tl" /tɬ/ are inspired specifically by Mayan needs some kind of citation; also, no Mayan language that I am aware of utilize any of these consonants. /tɬ/ does occur in (Classical) Nahuatl, and /ɬ/ is common in all of the Americas, as far as I know.
  • As for the phonology being 'highly unusual,' that is a subjective statement. Also, once again, the purported 'inspirations' for the sound system would still need citations to back them up. For one, the consonant inventory of Tsolyáni is closer to Arabic than to Urdu, Pashto or Mayan.
  • There is no mention of phonemic stress.
  • Why are the 'affricates' "ps," "bz," "ks," and "gz" included? I have never seen a single word in a Tekumelani language containing "bz" or "gz." I understand why "dz" is included, as Barker says that it could just as well have been ordained a separate letter, just like "ts," but nowhere does he say that the above mentioned are phonemes in their own right.
  • I think that "rr" is an allophone of "r" rather than a separate phoneme, by the way.

213.64.166.214 (talk) 23:11, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Headers[edit]

Exactly what is considered "advertising" or "non neutral" about this article? I don't quitre see what the problem may be... Urhixidur (talk) 14:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Me neither, I think those qualification are exaggerated. This was probably about formulations like "very interesting script", etc. In any case, I've modified it a bit and removed those two tags. But I still think we could use some references/external links. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 19:50, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Grammar[edit]

Shouldn't we say something about the grammar? Like how there are thirty-two words for "you," or that it is agglutinating-isolating rather than fusional, like many European languages are? 213.64.166.214 (talk) 23:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Phonology[edit]

In the consonant table, it lists ps, bz, ks, and gz as affricates. Technically these are just consonant clusters, since the stop and fricative in an affricate need to be at the same place of articulation. 72.86.57.191 (talk) 23:23, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Anybody have SVG examples of characters for a sample text line?[edit]

Has anyone made up SVG files for the characters, which could be put here as an example of the writing system? Jimw338 (talk) 17:01, 10 May 2015 (UTC)