Talk:Tyrannosaurus

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Featured articleTyrannosaurus is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
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Feathers[edit]

The part about feathers needs to be revised. New researches indicate that Tyrannosaurus rex and other large Tyrannosaurids were covered in scales. Sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/06/06/tyrannosaurus-rex-had-scaly-skin-and-wasnt-covered-in-feathers-a-new-study-says/?utm_term=.ac626c5a5848 https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jun/07/feather-furore-trex-may-not-have-been-fluffy-after-all-skin-study-suggests http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/t-rex-skin-was-not-covered-feathers-study-says-180963603/ http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06/world-s-only-fossils-t-rex-skin-suggest-it-was-covered-scales-not-feathers — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr. Hunter 6amm4 (talkcontribs) 03:06, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Both views are already reflected in the article. There is no consensus, and there probably won't be one, unless a mummified specimen is found... All we can do here is say what arguments have been published so far. FunkMonk (talk) 16:33, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
By the way, I moved the scaly, lipless Vienna model up to the description section so it is juxtaposed with the feathered, lipped model in Poland. I think it's a good way to show both views and not seem biased. FunkMonk (talk) 14:57, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Seems this will be an eternal back and forth, see the latest edits[3], so I'll ping the usual dinosaur art reviewers to figure out what to do here. Should we only use restorations that show feathers restricted to parts were scales aren't known (which supposedly excludes the current Saurian-syle image), or should anything go, since feathers and scales coexist in the same skin patches of some birds, as well as supposedly in Kulindadromeus? IJReid, Steveoc 86, Lythronaxargestes, Dinoguy2, Tomopteryx, Lusotitan. FunkMonk (talk) 14:45, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
The current Saurian-style image may only have a slight inaccuracy, which would be over the pelvis, as scales are known from the bottom back corner of the ilium. Scales are also known from under the torso, and up to halfway up the middle tail, so there should be scales in these regions, as least primarily. Scales are also known from the neck but it is unknown where on the neck, so we cannot really claim inaccuracies for that. With such a lack of consensus, it is probably best to let anything go integument-wise, although still remove skeletaly inaccurate images. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 14:50, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
I would also support letting it go either way for integument. Lusotitan 18:52, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
I'd go with restricted feathers if possible. Why second guess published sources? Feather-scale coexistance in this case seems like special pleading. Yeah it's possible, but there's no evidence, and just scales are also possible. Dinoguy2 (talk) 17:59, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
Since both are possible I feel it's important both are represented. Lusotitan 05:40, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
The feathered version is overrepresented in that case. It's way at the top, while the scale-only version (which is referred to as outdated) is a lot farther down. Prinsgezinde (talk) 18:16, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
There is a model head without feathers right below the feathered drawing. But yes, we could replace one of the other feather images (like the one under locomotion), but we don't really have many good ones. FunkMonk (talk) 18:58, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
Tyrannosaurus by Mark P. Witton.png
I took the time to look through all the ones we have. Among some other very low-quality and inaccurate ones, there is only the famed Witton image left, which only features sparse feathering. The only issue is the dewclaw is too large but I can easily fix it with a photo editing tool. Thoughts? ▼PσlєοGєєкƧɊƲΔƦΣƉ▼ 19:37, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
That could probably work, what do people say? FunkMonk (talk) 22:12, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
I think it's fine. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 02:46, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Ok, I did a rejig by replacing Durbed's feathered restoration, since one of his images is also in the palaeoecology section. FunkMonk (talk) 03:35, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Looks good. ▼PσlєοGєєкƧɊƲΔƦΣƉ▼ 03:47, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
If we think the RJPalmer image is maybe a bit too in one direction as the first restoration, we could also swap the placement of that and the Witton image. But I don't think that's really urgent, and the Witton image lacks a bit of detail around the head. FunkMonk (talk) 23:01, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Seems the lifted, and very eagle-like, tongue in the Palmer image is inaccurate:[4] FunkMonk (talk) 13:02, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
RJ's defense (for his new one, also sporting a lifted tongue) is that he believes this means tyrannosaurs had immobile tongues, but not necessarily ones fused to the mouth floor like with crocodilians, which he chalks up to being another of their weirdo specializations, perhaps for death-rolling. I don't believe he has any evidence for this, but his suggestion isn't out of the question either. Lusotitan (Talk | Contributions) 15:19, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Well, it kind of amounts to original research/special pleading. But in any case, am I wrong or does the paper not say anything specifically about tyrannosaurs other than showing a photo of Yutyrannus? It seems Tyrannosaurus is only brought up in various pop science articles? FunkMonk (talk) 15:28, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Nobu Tamura made a new, free restoration[5] this year based on the scale paper. It only shows feathers along the upper midline. The thigh muscle looks very strange, though, and the tongue is raised. Any thoughts? FunkMonk (talk) 13:20, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
The foot also looks wonky. Not the best illustration. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 16:45, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
  • The four feathered illustrations in the article all got their descriptions on Commons modified by IPs to say either "dated," "debunked," or "fictional." I have reverted these edits based on the above conversation. Please correct me if I did the wrong thing. --Slate Weasel (talk | contribs) 19:09, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
By the same guy who keeps removing the images form here, maybe? But yeah, there still doesn't seem to be scientific consensus about it, Thomas Holtz and Darren Naish still maintian that taphonomy has been ignored, which I guess implies that preserved skin without feathers isn't proof of absence of feathers. Which seems sensible, if you find a dead, decayed dog without fur, you wouldn't assume it was naked in life. We know feathers and scales an coexist on the same patches of skin, form both modern birds, as well as Kulindadromeus. FunkMonk (talk) 19:22, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Now even Saurian redesigned their Tyrannosaurus to be scaly[6], and the Palmer drawing we have is directly tied to their earlier design. Time to use Witton's drawing as our main restoration? FunkMonk (talk) 21:20, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Yeah using a design Saurian considers to be outdated seems like a poor idea. Could we contact RJ/Arvalis to use his new one? Lusotitan (Talk | Contributions) 00:14, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Of course, since he already "donated" one image, there might be a chance. FunkMonk (talk) 01:00, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
I have put Witton's image in its place for now. I think the restoration under palaeoecology should be ok too, since it does not show feathers in the areas where skin is known. FunkMonk (talk) 03:56, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Witton's feels like a huge step down in clearly showing the anatomy of the animal. Is it worth swapping out the detailed but feathered one over some integument we're not even confidant about yet? Lusotitan (Talk | Contributions) 04:17, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
I'll say from a scientific standpoint I think it may be better to exclude the image with feathers. There is still uncertainty if the Rex had feathers, and I think it's irresponsible to push that when we don't have hard evidence for it. That would be like if lions were extinct, and we found fossilized evidence of the mane. Then declaring all felids have a mane which isn't true. I think the best solutions is to include both an image of a Rex with and without feathers standing next to each other. Making is clear that really do not know with 100% certainty if they had feathers at all.Mcelite (talk) 06:44, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
I disagree - it's more like we had several fossil relatives all around T. rex with evidence of feathers. A bit like...say....a fossil bird. I see no problem with having a depiction with feathers and noting it as such as an alternative view. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:00, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
As long as there are respected palaeontologists who still argue for some amount of feathers, such as Thomas Holtz and Darren Naish, we are pretty much obliged to show them anyway. But we should probably not use restorations that show feathers in areas of the body where scales are known (hence the removal of the Palmer image, which also showed an overly flexible tongue, which is probably also incorrect). As for the Witton image, it is the best placeholder we have for now, but of course, if a new image comes up, we can replace it. FunkMonk (talk) 12:34, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
I still think the Martyniuk restoration is the best, and the limited feathering still follows what's possible, while the image itself is clearer. If we get into another pointless argument over it, we might as well try toning down the brightness of the red. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 14:45, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
We should certainly keep it in the article, but I wonder if it is too "controversial" (even without the red) to use as the first restoration. FunkMonk (talk) 14:54, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
I would suggest then having two images together with one have some feathers, but I agree with FunkMonk that the restoration with feathers should not have feather placements where we know there were scales. That's basically reaching in favor for a certain point of view, and not neutral. I think this will always be controversial especially because it is speculative, but again I'll agree with a restoration with partial feathers as long as it is either paired with a fully scaled animal, or the text explicitly says that we are uncertain if the Rex had feathers.Mcelite (talk) 17:45, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
I have a restoration here, [7] which I could modify for Wikipedia. Almost everything is in layers so the feathers can be switched off, which would make a feathered/scaly comparison somewhat easy. If I do upload, I'd remove or reduce the scarring and restore the missing a hand... I'd also like to update the skin details on the head to conform better to Witton's interpretation and apply a few other fixes. That said, If RJ donates his superior restoration, that would be my preferred option. Steveoc 86 (talk) 18:16, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
As is, the feathered model is shown in a section where it is juxtaposed with the scaly model head. And your image looks good, Steve, but yeah, probably best to patch him up and send him for review first! FunkMonk (talk) 18:41, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
We also can temporarily re-add File:Tyrannosaurus rex by durbed.jpg if we wanna risk being a little repetitive. Additionally, these two images also exist, although they're rather wonky: File:Tyrannosaurus rex Reconstruction by Nobu Tamura.jpg and File:Tyrannosaurus rex by abelov2014.jpg. --Slate Weasel (talk | contribs) 21:19, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
I think that's a nice restoration Steveoc 86 of course with the patch ups. Having 2 version of it would be fitting. I'm not in disagreement with adding in the other files temporarily either FunkMonk. The last one is the best restoration in my opinion.Mcelite (talk) 01:27, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
There's also File:Tyrantcol.jpg and File:Tyrannosaurus2 NT.jpg. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 04:46, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
The Abelov one has a weird head (and at least one pronated hand). The Durbed one with scales has a too massive lower jaw. The rest of the scaly ones are a bit wonky, so as earlier, the problem is mainly our lack of appropriate images. But Steve's should rectify this. FunkMonk (talk) 09:36, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, and it matches with the restorations we have for other tyrannosaurids as well. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 14:41, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Talked to RJ, he turned down having the updated Saurian art be used for copyright/attribution reasons. Steveoc's is definitely the choice to go for at the moment. Lusotitan (Talk | Contributions) 23:41, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
I think that's the best outcome, Steve is very good at keeping his images up to date, I doubt that would be the case with a non-regular. FunkMonk (talk) 23:44, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 August 2018[edit]

The line in the first sentence "The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), ..." should more correctly read "The species Tyrannosaurus rex (meaning "tyrant lizard" in Greek plus "king" in Latin), ..." 68.149.12.34 (talk) 06:32, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Not done Rex means "king" in Greek too. ~ Abelmoschus Esculentus (talk to me) 07:45, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

What taxa does tyrannosaur refer to?[edit]

Tyrannosaurids refer to Tyrannosauridae, tyrannosaurines refer to Tyrannosaurinae, but to what taxa does tyrannosaur refer to? There's no "Tyrannosauria" out there. I suggest a brief clarification should be included in the article about whatever tyrannosaur means.  Dinosaur (talk) 🌴🦕🦖 -- 20:46, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Tyrannosaur clearly redirects to Tyrannosauroidea. 128.189.203.33 (talk) 21:27, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Featured article review[edit]

This article was promoted more than a decade ago in 2006. Now it has become really messy.

  1. Several parts could be considered as a hodgepodge of super technical data without any coherent flow. A notable example is the section on Locomotion. It's extremely long, but there is no flow there at all. Random information that are hard to understand are put here and there without any consideration of legibility. This section needs to be summarized based on the current scientific consensus, and then further debates could be put in a separate article.
  2. Bad sources. I have found and deleted blog sources that were cited. The article still cites a lecture; even if it's delivered by a professor, it's not a proper scholarly publication. The article also cites "science for kids" website, and all the popular science sources need to be replaced by peer-reviewed scholarly publications. In addition, many sources are missing the pages, and the Internet sources are not cited properly.

Therefore, I believe that this article no longer qualifies as a featured article, and it needs to be delisted immediately. Mimihitam (talk) 12:09, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

No articles are ever "delisted immediately", that's just not how it works. Have a look at WP:FAR. Best course of action is to simply list issues that need fixing, as you have done, notify the dinosaur project, and then it will most likely be fixed. I agree the article has deteriorated, but per the FAR instructions ("raise issues at article Talk") it is best to see if the issues can be dealt with in the usual way before taking it there; FAR is the last resort, not the first. FunkMonk (talk) 17:07, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps we could go through this or perhaps a few of the oldest dinosaur FAs and touch them up as the next WikiProject Dinosaurs collab, with Brachiosaurus on the final stretch. Lusotitan (Talk | Contributions) 19:48, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps we should have an entire task listed at the dinosaur project devoted to maintaining FAs and keeping them up to date. It certainly is a neglected area. Even some recent FAs are lacking information published after they passed, so more than a temporary collaboration, it should probably be an ongoing, parallel process. FunkMonk (talk) 19:55, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
I've been meaning to get Thescelosaurus into this half of the decade sometime... the only two papers from more recent than 2011 cited are from 2012 and 2013 respectively, the latter for the now positively ancient looking pre-Boyd (2015) phylogenetic tree. Lusotitan (Talk | Contributions) 19:57, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
From what I've seen in recent articles, some of the other major tyrannosaurid ones like Gorgosaurus, Albertosaurus, Tarbosaurus, and Daspletosaurus look like they wouldn't pass FAC today. They're quite readable in terms of prose, but go into only about as much detail or comprehensiveness as a modern GA would. Seems like this should be a slow process though. Like FunkMonk said, we probably shouldn't run around and start uprooting everything immediately. ▼PσlєοGєєкƧɊƲΔƦΣƉ▼ 20:01, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Everything promoted before 2009 really has this problem, before the GA and FA criteria were overhauled. I added some new tasks to the dinosaur project page. FunkMonk (talk) 20:25, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
This is as good a place to start as any - it then also provides a good template for Gorgosaurus, Albertosaurus, Tarbosaurus, and Daspletosaurus. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:10, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Red headed depiction[edit]

Image in question
  • As for the current edit war over an image of Tyrannosaurus with a red head (a moot point, since the colour of most dinosaurs isn't known), it was depicted as such in the Discovery documentary Valley of the T. rex, based on the ideas of Jack R. Horner. Here is another[8] published restoration of Tyrannosaurus with a red head, by Doug Henderson (artist). That at least sets a precedence, and shows the image doesn't present novel ideas. In any case, we don't need sources to say Tyrannosaurus was green or brown either for us to depict it as such. We don't know, so it can't be sourced, all we can do is look at published, artistic precedences. FunkMonk (talk) 11:00, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
A documentary is not a valid scientific source, period. The point is that the image is a creative undertaking. It is not a scientific one and it doesn't belong to the scientific sections. If you published such an image in the scientific community, you would immediately be roasted. Where are the evidences that T-rex had a red head and a brown body? I might as well create an image where the T-rex is all pink or even rainbow, and then put it in the thermoregulation section. Hey it's valid right?? Nobody knows their colour, so I am allowed to put a rainbow-colored T-rex there! That's how absurd it is, and that's why it should either be deleted or moved to the "popular depiction" or "history" part. Mimihitam (talk) 11:15, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Err, I just showed you that Tyrannosaurus has been depicted as such in both books and documentaries made by palaeontologists, so "If you published such an image in the scientific community, you would immediately be roasted" is already falsified there. I've seen the Henderson image published in two or three books. FunkMonk (talk) 11:17, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

What I meant is that if you published a claim that a T-rex has a red head and a brown body and put such an image as a scientifically-true illustration, you would immediately be roasted. And can I publish a rainbow-colored T-rex in the thermoregulation part now? It has exactly the same standing with the red-coloured one. It doesn't matter if a "paleontologist" used such an image if there is no evidence at all. Some paleontologists were also involved in the whole "Dino Gangs" fiasco, doesn't mean we should follow them like a sheep. The argumentum ad auctoritatem fallacy here is really strong. As I said, just move it to either the history part of the popular depiction part, and that would be a compromise. Mimihitam (talk) 11:22, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

If your point is that dinosaurs should only be depicted in black and white because we don't know their colouration, then I'm sorry to tell you that will not be adhered here, or anywhere else for that matter. Now we're at it, here's another redheaded Tyrannosaurus[9], published in a book by Peter Dodson. We could probably go on like this, but the point is, Tyrannosaurus has been depicted with a red head multiple times in publications by professional palaeontologists, and that sets a precedent we can follow. We don't need a source that says "Tyrannosaurus had a red head" because such statements cannot, and will never be made, because no one knows. FunkMonk (talk) 11:27, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Again, argumentum ad auctoritatem. It would be better to put all of these creative products in the appropriate section: either history or popular depictions. It should not be presented as a scientifically-true image. Unless you are bent on misleading people, then I don't really give a damn if it's "not going to be adhered to" here. Farewell. Mimihitam (talk) 11:34, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Well, can you explain why you latched onto that particular image and not one of the others? Seems extremely arbitrary; we don't know if any of the colours shown are "true", and we will never know. Also, remember WP:verifiability not truth. I have shown you there is published precedence for this colour scheme, and that's all that can be done. FunkMonk (talk) 11:45, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Because it's extremely arbitrary to have an image with a red head and a brown body, might as well put a rainbow in the forelimbs, and worse is that it is being presented here as a scientifically-true image. There is no basis for that except for your argumentum ad auctoritatem fallacy. Unless you put a disclaimer that it is an "artistic depiction", then it is bound to be misleading. People would start believing that they really have a red head and a brown color.

Oh, and interestingly the page that you are referring to has this section: Wikipedia:Verifiability,_not_truth#"If_it's_written_in_a_book,_it_must_be_true!". Mimihitam (talk) 11:58, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

First, no, it is not comparable at all to a depiction with a rainbow colouration, because it has never been depicted with rainbow colours in any reliable source. Secondly, there are no less than eight different restorations in the article, all with different colour schemes. Who exactly is going to believe that exactly one of them is the "real" one? As for adding "artistic depiction", that is what "restoration" implies. As for your last comment, it doesn't apply, because again, we show eight different colour schemes, so we don't exactly claim any one in particular is "true". We show a very wide range of possibilities. FunkMonk (talk) 12:03, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
This is all moot in light of the beyond overwhelming WP:Consensus that speculatively coloured reconstructions of extinct subjects are within reasonable, necessary levels of speculation, as evidence by the presence of hundreds of them on commons, many of which being used on Wikipedia right now. If you want a published, academic justification for using colour in art of prehistoric species, I'm sure Mark Witton's recent The Palaeoartist's Handbook contains passages on the subject of what is reasonable speculation in palaeoart, by one of the formost authorities on the subject. Lusotitan (Talk | Contributions) 20:07, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
For one, a rainbow Tyrannosaurus *would* be inaccurate if it was feathered as this one is, due to the impossibility of green or blue or bright yellow feathers in such a basal taxon. Having multi-coloured skin is not inaccurate, regardless of the colours, if done within the variety seen in nature (some animals do naturally have unreasonably brightly-coloured regions, just look at a baboons ass). Feel free to create a rainbow Tyrannosaurus and if it is accurate and more relevant/better quality than the images we currently have, we might end up including it. Until then, piss off. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 23:00, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

"Piss off", ROFL, what a bunch of ignorant sheeps who just blindly believe that T-Rex really had multi-colours. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But I don't think people like IJReid care about that. Your "artistic" images really have the status of the bible here, it's so sacred and nobody is allowed to remove it even though it's not based on any evidence. I can't do anything against deeply-held dogma, it's just like arguing with creationists. So once again I couldn't care less. Farewell. Mimihitam (talk) 11:55, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

You have some temper for a supposed admin. But you are doing good work on the article otherwise, so I think we should just focus on that. The issue about this particular image seems more like a case of WP:I don't like it. Again, if there was some sort of "dogma" that the dinosaur had a red head and a conspiracy to enforce it, I doubt we would show seven other restorations with different colour schemes. FunkMonk (talk) 12:08, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Saying "piss off" in the first place is really unethical. It's not about "I don't like it", it's about giving the wrong impression, like how Jurassic Park/World made people think that all velociraptors were as big as humans. Anyway, since this is pointless (and I've actually stopped responding until someone has to be called out for writing something nice), I will leave it as it is. Thank you. Mimihitam (talk) 12:28, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

I agree that we should WP:keep it civil (sorry for quoting policies in every other comment), but again, you have not demonstrated why we give the "wrong impression", according to actual Wikipedia guidelines rather than personal opinion, so there is not much to be done about the particular image. It neither shows anything that contradicts published sources, nor does it introduce novel ideas, therefore it is not a problem to Wikipedia, though you may not like it. FunkMonk (talk) 12:41, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
This is a roundabout argument because we are all saying "nothing truly wrong with it" and then mimi is stating "well you're wrong". Nothing will change at this rate in the discussion because the two sides are so firmly implanted in their opinions. I would strongly recommend either a) bringing this up at WP:DINOART where more editors who discuss this topic are involved, b) getting an impartial third opinion on this, who listens to both sides of the argument, or c) follow the opinion of the more numerously supported side, which in this case is that the image as it is is not wrong and should not be removed. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 15:07, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

The horse that is the crux of the argument against the restoration has been beaten to death for years now, with overwhelming community consensus that paleoart is not original research provided the existence of WP:DINOART and proper sourcing. If Mimihitam would like to change the status quo, they are welcome to start a RfC and attempt to persuade other editors. Also, the suggestion that this restoration of Tyrannosaurus would not be published is ridiculous given the appearance of this diagram as a figure in a peer-reviewed paper, which has a way more red Tyrannosaurus and a pop culture reference to boot. Finally, Mimihitam's offence at supposedly incendiary comments is ironic given their choice words such as "ignorant sheep". 2001:569:782B:7A00:3564:406A:6710:1DD (talk) 17:05, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

To do list[edit]

  • To get the ball rolling, we could maybe all add issues to a to do list, I'll start with some below, adapted form some mentioned above. FunkMonk (talk) 12:05, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Replace unreliable sources.
  • Add page numbers to books.
  • Summarise overly technical paragraphs.
  • Summarise overly long and technical sections. The feeding behaviour section became huge a while ago, so I split some of it off into Feeding behaviour of Tyrannosaurus, perhaps it would be better off to have just bee shorter.
  • There is very little on postcranial anatomy, the description section could probably be expanded in general.
  • Mention differences from related genera under description.
I'll have a look this week. I could probably do 3 and 4. I don't have access to many sources so I can't be much help there. LittleJerry (talk) 14:33, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
All the journal sources should be easy to find with WP:RX or Scihub, but the books might be more problematic...
That feeding behaviour article is of respectable length to be justifiably separated, perhaps cut the current one down into a summary (which I still think should be in the Paleoecology section), link that one, and touch it up a bit? Lusotitan (Talk | Contributions) 20:01, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, it is certainly too long to merge back in. Question is how much to cut from here... FunkMonk (talk) 20:07, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Well, just write it like you would a lead, but just on feeding. Speaking of other articles, there's four additional ones, Specimens of Tyrannosaurus, Sue (dinosaur), Trix (dinosaur), and Tyrannosaurus in popular culture, that would also make sense to review while we're on the subject. We might even be able to make a Tyrannosaurus good topic. The first two need expanding, Trix getting its own article is questionable but the Dutch one is easily of a length within GA reach, and the last article is a mess but is arguably an important enough topic to have another go at. Lusotitan (Talk | Contributions) 20:11, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Checkout my sandbox for the reduced locomotion section. This is probably the best i can do. LittleJerry (talk) 21:34, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Since Mimihitam was the one who nominated this for FAR, we would expect them to stay in touch for the rest of the process and give responses to stuff like this. FunkMonk (talk) 09:56, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

@LittleJerry FunkMonk footnotes number 3, 7 and 22 are missing. If one of them is a book already quoted in another part, we need to find the page. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the dinosaur literatures. Also I believe that it would be more comfortable for readers to have a paragraph with all the scientists who believe that they can't run, and then another one who believe they can run, with the 2017 research and the "it does not really matter" part as the closing paragraph. But that's just my 2 cents, it's up to you guys. I think the proposed summary is already much more legible than the previous version. Mimihitam (talk) 10:10, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Mimihitam, fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 14:52, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

@LittleJerry Thank you for your hard work! I appreciate it. Mimihitam (talk) 14:54, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Should "Feeding" be trimmed down? I think maybe cannibalism could be removed since its in the separate article. LittleJerry (talk) 17:37, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Well, it could be summarised, but subjects should not be removed entirely when splitting off a section, the coverage of them should just be shortened. FunkMonk (talk) 18:35, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
I'll work on shortening the feeding section. Lusotitan (Talk | Contributions) 23:50, 11 October 2018 (UTC)