Talk:United States Army
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I know this has been discussed over and over but no changes have been seen! There is obviously much criticism of the US Army and it should be mentioned here even if it is just to state why. —Preceding unsigned comnbmment added by Maxipuchi (talk • contribs) 08:55, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks – someone, thinking the same as me! Please compare de:US Army with this article! I was shocked, seeing this!
- @German speakers: Please help to complete this article! Thanks --Gsälzbär (talk) 21:12, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
- What criticism are you talking about? Are you referring to groups like the Westboro Baptist Church that criticizes the US Army(and anyone) as supporters of gay rights? There is a vast amount of criticism that takes place and there would be no way to list it all. More importantly if you believe criticism needs to documented on the US Army, then maybe the "Federal Government of the United States" page also needs to document criticism. Also I believe it is fairly common knowledge that the US Army faces criticism. If you want to talk about criticism then how come the German Army page German Army contains no mention of the Malmedy Massacre? Please do not be so eager to criticize the US Army if you fail to do it for yourselves. I see that as hypocritical. Jaggers117 (talk) 06:50, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
What an incredibly biased article! Looks more like a recruiting website rather than an objective collection of information about the US Army. I see no mention of public criticism (that goes for overseas as well as in America - the Westboro Baptist Church are a fairly insignificant and small branch of criticism who are not to be taken seriously). What about allegations of "murder games" by US soldiers? Human Rights abuses? Abu Ghraib? This is nothing short of shocking propaganda! 220.127.116.11 (talk) 13:46, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Shocking describes your bad acting 94. And I sure wish that girl hadn't put her panties on that terrorist's head. You call that torture? You get wet dreams about that, don't you 94. Ever see Iraqi boys and girls with their ears and noses cut off because the let a cucumber touch a tomato. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 14:17, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
- I have to agree with 94.194's assessment. There is nowhere in this article to put news like this:
- Army suicides doubled last month from June's total
- It does indeed look like a recruitment page here. According to WP:LEDE, you don't have a choice whether to print controversies here - if there are any prominent controversies, they must be included in the Lede. petrarchan47tc 22:01, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- The fact that some editors want to put this topic into a criticism section is telling. That is, they don't want to improve the article as much as to poke a finger in the eye of an institution they don't like. Consider this: suicide is a problem amongst doctors (See: http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/04/profession-with-highest-suicide-rate.html ). Would it be appropriate to put a ==Criticism== section into the Physician article? Or how about Michael Vick? (He was involved in illegal dog fighting.) Should we have a Criticism section in Professional sports that uses crime as a topic? (Here is a starting point for research: http://www.stat.duke.edu/~dalene/chance/chanceweb/123.nflviol.pdf .) Point is -- when you start with the premise that you can use a news article about suicides increasing from one month to another as the basis for a criticism section, you are injecting POV into the article.--S. Rich (talk) 15:36, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Where did someone suggest a criticism section? Am I missing something here? petrarchan47tc 03:59, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
- Also try to steer clear of false equivalencies in your response. According to WP:Criticism, "policy requires that all viewpoints of any topic be represented fairly, proportionately, and without bias. Negative criticism of a topic is acceptable material, and should be included in this encyclopedia", however a section devoted to controversies is not the recommended approach. It it says, "The ideal approach is to integrate the negative criticism into the article: negative information is woven throughout the article in the appropriate topical sections. The article does not have a dedicated "Criticism" section." As far as the suicide rate, it is possible that this information is too new to be presented properly and in context. But the fact that this article looks more like a brochure than an encyclopedia, and that one cannot find any shred of a viewpoint other than official Army views is alarming to say the least. petrarchan47tc 20:30, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
In fact a criticism section was suggested here: Talk:United_States_Armed_Forces#Criticism. (I apologize for not pointing that out earlier.) In any event, the arguments apply to both articles. Actually, this is a question of article management. There are thousands of criticism subtopics relevant to the US Army and/or US Armed Forces, from the grub, to merits of weapons systems, to military justice, to cost, to quality of training, to .... But WP:Criticism does not tell us such criticism should be in or omitted from any particular article. (E.g., that this article or that article should have a criticism section.) Rather, it allows for criticisms to be presented in general. Thus, you could have (and do have) criticisms of Army BDU design in Battle_Dress_Uniform#Criticism_of_the_BDU. Would it be appropriate to add such criticisms to this article? Hardly. And it is even less appropriate to bring in the issue of suicide as a criticism simply because suicide in the military is the hot news topic right now. --S. Rich (talk) 21:43, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- As I said, the question of "when" this news becomes appropriate for a Wikipedia article might take a while to answer. Time will tell. You are right, it is a hot topic right now in the news. We'll see if folks were overreacting, or if this is encyclopedic information at a later date. Which article would you suggest would be a better fit? The problem is, "US Troops" redirects here, so for now this would be the best fit. Personally, I'd prefer not to confound this discussion with numerous examples of what won't work, and just stick to this one. For the record, I do not have criticisms of Army BDU design, and never mentioned it until now. petrarchan47tc 21:54, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Since there already exists an article about war crimes commited by US armed forces shouldn't this article at least link to it? For reference see here: United States War Crimes --paul — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 07:40, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
On a ligitimate note, the recruitment practices of the CSA in no way impact the record of the US Army, being that the CSA was an unlawful assembly and never recognized as anything but a popular rebellion by the US government. I'd cite someone but its so obvious and self evident that I dont think its necessary. That being said, in the absence of the decision of a recognized court or tribunal, any critism of the US Army would be a matter of opinion, and not the subject of an encyclopedic entry. Perhaps there could be a seperate article containing criticisms. . . but factualy i'm not sure what it would consist of. Barring the actions of a few individuls the record of the US Army is exemplary of restrain and fair play as applied to warfare, even and often at its own expense. If the alledged events at Abu Ghraib had been US Army policy then criticism would be duly called for. Being that it was punishable behavior under the UCMJ and not knowingly condoned I'd cite it as an exception to the rule. If every army were to be criticised for the excesses or dailances of its individual members no such body could ever been seen as ligitimate. I've yet to see though any serious charge of genocide, or execution of prisoners, or willful targeting of civilians leveled against the US Army as a body, rather only against isolated (and few) members of its whole. To say that the criminal behavior of a few equals a ligitimate argument against the whole is absurd. Imagine calling all people in a country murderers because some people in that country have murdered. In light of the VC death squads, the purges of Stalin, the holocaust of the Nazis, or of Pol Pot, the genocide of the Kurds under Hussien in Iraq, or even the tacit allowance of drug smuggling by the army of Panama under Noriega. . . to mount any serious criticism of the US Army one would almost have to turn 180 degrees and attack the fact that it sometimes sacrafices its own numbers to avoid undue civilian causalties, or the destruction of infrastructure. These acts are contrary to the goals and welfare of an army. It is perhaps also unique in the history of armies. If you want to see criticism of the US Army on this page, my suggestion is to locate evidence of something which is deserving of criticising the body as a whole. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antirevisionisthistorian (talk • contribs) 06:48, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
Repeating the myth that the US never lost a battle in Vietnam.
"American forces effectively established and maintained control of the "traditional" battlefield, however they struggled to counter the guerrilla hit and run tactics of the communist Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese Army. On a tactical level, American soldiers (and the U.S. military as a whole) did not lose a sizable battle."
This is false, the US was defeated in a major stand up battle at Kham Duc.
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National security strategy
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