Talk:United States Declaration of Independence

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Good article United States Declaration of Independence has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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Additional External Link[edit]

I would like to add an external link to the version of this declaration before it was edited, as originally written by Thomas Jefferson. An example of this can be found at http://www.history.org/almanack/resources/jeffersondeclaration.cfm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.96.205.81 (talkcontribs) 11:31, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Declaration of Independence was not forgotten[edit]

I must challenge the assertion that the Declaration of independence was as quoted by Maier on page 162 ( American Scripture) cite in your article. Maier stated "seldom if ever, to judge from newspaper accounts and histories of the celebrations was the Declaration of independence ever read publicly in the late 1770s and 1780s." There is no evidence offered to support this and in fact the DOI was read on July 4th from 1776 onward and usually read also before sermons delivered in gathering places after 1776.

I would also point out that many newspapers were shut down by the British in the colonies during the war years war years of 1775-1783 and could not be reported. Oftentimes, the reports of sermons were sent to newspapers in many states to be included as a news event but nothing in the newspaper reporting standard of 18th century equal today's newspaper reporting practices.

No facts are offered to support such a sweeping judgment and really needs to be reviewed. Unfortunately, the belief that the DOI was forgotten has been included in other histories of the time and needs to be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Novanglus2015 (talkcontribs) 10:41, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 17 October 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved, concerns of primary topic (non-admin closure) — Andy W. (talk) 23:59, 24 October 2016 (UTC)


– This Declaration of Independence is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, many of the other declarations of independence are far less notable. Several declarations of independence weren't even called "Declaration of Independence", but the moniker was given to compare it to the US Declaration and as far as I know it was the first document to be called this. For example the Israeli Declaration of Independence is formally called "Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel". Another concern is that the current page Declaration of Independence is really just a WP:list and so it is misleading and mis-titled. Per WP:COMMONNAME, WP:USEENGLISH it appears that the this one is the one most commonly called "Declaration of Independence". Prisencolin (talk) 21:27, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

(edit, evidence of primary topic: It's been mentioned in previous RMs that this page has more page views by leaps and bounds. Also, looking up "Declaration of Indepence" on google's various search features yields pretty much only IS results. For some reason there has been quite a bit of news about Israel's independence recently, but the wikipedia page on that subject should re-titled Declaration of Statehood or something along those lines. The US Declaration set the precedent of having a a formal declaration of independence, note how there are only two instances of this occuring on the Declaration of Independence even though there have been countless instances of nations and states gaining self sovereignty before 1776.-02:54, 18 October 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prisencolin (talkcontribs)

  • Oppose, the 'United States' descriptor differentiates this page from others like Irish Declaration of Independence, Declaration of Independence of the Mexican Empire, Declaration of Independence of Ukraine, and many others. In fact, the first line of the Declaration creates "The United States of America", so the present title is actually more than a descriptor and invokes the document's statement of intent. Randy Kryn 21:49, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
    • This is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of Declaration of Independence, so this page doesn't need to be disambiguated because it is widely thought that "Declaration of Independence" without any qualifiers refers to the US one. In that case we shouldn't even have United States as United States, because "United States" could refer to United Mexican States or some other federal entity.--Prisencolin (talk) 22:07, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
      • The page Declaration of independence shows Wikipedia has 36 separate articles containing the name along with mentioning a country. So consistency should also be noted here. Randy Kryn 22:17, 17 October 2016 (UTC
      • (edit conflict) Prisencolin, you need to provide some proof that this is the Primary Topic, not just declare it. Who is it "widely thought" this by? - BilCat (talk) 22:22, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
        • I don't really want to pile on to a good faith RM, but check out the extent ofCategory:Declarations of independence. Seems pretty convincing for Wikipedia's direction on the term. Randy Kryn 22:29, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
          • It may be in good faith, but proposals have been made to move the article before, per the box near the top of this page. I highly suggest the nominator read those discussions carefully, as the box suggests, become it's evident from his arguments that he has not. - BilCat (talk) 23:25, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
            • There's only been one instance of a an RM relating to WP:PRIMARYTOPIC (two were about WP:NATURAL, and to be honest the arguments being made on both sides weren't very convincing.--03:22, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose - I see nothing to show this is the primary topic. This is the English Wikipedia not the United States Wikipedia. The title accurately describes the article. I do not see any reason to move this. -- GB fan 22:52, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
    • Being a US topic doesn't preclude it from being a primary topic on that basis alone, and that isn't the argument the nom is making. - BilCat (talk) 23:25, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
      • No kidding, there are many US articles that are primary topics. Where did I say that just because this was a US topic that it couldn't be the primary topic? I said I don't see anything that shows this is the primary topic and went on to make my own point about this not being the US Wikipedia. There are editors that do make the point that the US should be primary topics and was trying to preempt that line of reasoning. I was not responding to anything the nom said and don't understand why you would think I was responding to something they never said. -- GB fan 00:12, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
        • The way it was written made the two sentences appear connected, as there was nothing there to indicate they weren't connected. My apologies. - BilCat (talk) 03:02, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
          • @GB fan For the most part I agree with you, but it needs to be noted that the United States more or less originated the idea of having a formalized Declaration, particularily one drafted as a document. Among major countries, it seems as if the US is the only one where independence was explcitly and boldly declared. Brazil might have been in the same situation, but the its link on the Declarations list page doesn't direct to a any sort of American-style proclaimation.--Prisencolin (talk) 04:26, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose – I don't see how this proposed move would benefit the article about the United States' deceleration of independence from the British Empire. Many countries have had a document declaring their independence from another sovereignty. The nominator does not provide evidence on why the United States deceleration of independence is the primary topic of the term Declaration of Independence. CookieMonster755 𝚨-𝛀 00:46, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Procedural comment. This is a malformed request. Declaration of Independence is a redirect. We don't move redirects. If you wish to change the target of the redirect, take that to WP:Redirects for discussion. – wbm1058 (talk) 11:34, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
Right, but be sure to make such corrections in two places. wbm1058 (talk) 14:12, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
@Wbm1058: As I recall, everything you may be referring to that I may have not done, your bot will now do automatically? Just wondering since I believe that the nominator means to propose the first page be moved to Declaration of Independence with a capital "I". (Am I missing something? If an WP:RFD needs to happen, it probably can after this discussion.) Steel1943 (talk) 14:47, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, I made a mistake there. wbm1058 (talk) 15:55, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Comment: @Prisencolin: If Declaration of independence is moved to a "list"-type title, it should probably be moved to List of declarations of independence instead to fix the capitalization of the title. Steel1943 (talk) 14:04, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Sorry, this request just violates too many conventions. Don't confuse the Proper Name of a specific declaration with discussion of generic declarations. Of course this is PT in the United States, but Wikipedia has to take a world-wide view. Moving this to "list of..." is a WP:summary style violation as it assumes we have an article about the things we're listing that needs to have the list split out from the article because the main article has gotten too big to comfortably include the list. That's not the case here. wbm1058 (talk) 15:55, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
  • I'm open to the possibility of moving Declaration of independenceDeclarations of independence, plural. I know we generally prefer titles in the singular form, but that would help minimize confusion about whether the topic was general declarations, throughout history and around the world, or one specific capital D Declaration. Since we wouldn't put a {{lowercase title}} on this. – wbm1058 (talk) 16:13, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
  • And American Declaration of Independence would be a bit more succinct and probably more WP:common name too. wbm1058 (talk) 16:20, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
    Yup: Google Ngram says "American" is much more common than "United States". wbm1058 (talk) 16:25, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
    "United States" is used in the first line of the declaration, so could be seen as a part of the title. The Declaration did not create 'America' but it did create and name the "'United' States of America " as it declared the nation's independence. Randy Kryn 17:43, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Comments - Technically, Declaration of Independence and Declaration of independence can be separate articles, per WP:DIFFCAPS. A example is Red meat and Red Meat. - BilCat (talk) 01:21, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose. No primary topic here. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:19, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose This is far from the primary topic and the current title reflects the language of the primary text. Dimadick (talk) 15:24, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 19 November 2016[edit]

The last sentence of the "Publication and Reaction" section reads "All Northern states abolished slavery by 1804." This seems likely to lead to incorrect conclusions by the casual reader.

Suggest it read something like: "By 1804, all Northern states passed legislation that led to the gradual abolition of slavery in the North." and a link be provided to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States#Abolition_in_the_North

NotSuess (talk) 03:52, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Not done for now: I would look for consensus on this change. I don't think that the current wording would lead to incorrect conclusions. -- Dane2007 talk 04:08, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

edit in the chart section[edit]

In the indictment section, one of the sentences is: For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States There is a comma that should be after the word Trial. Could someone add that in?


--Dabauss514 (talk) 23:07, 5 December 2016 (UTC)