Talk:United States men's national soccer team

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Page title[edit]

Our title does not conform to the standards of the rest of the international soccer teams' wiki pages. Every other page is "[Name of Country] national football team". We could obviously have "united states national soccer team" redirect, but the title should be the same as all of the other pages since they are all about the same type of subject.

At the very least, we should remove the word "men's" since none of the other pages specify that.

This is probably like this because in the US, the women's soccer team is the more popular and succesful one. So one could think it as the women's team if it is not specified. (talk) 16:11, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

National Stadium[edit]

Forgive me if this is posted in the wrong section. It list Bruce Arena the former coach as the national stadium for the team. You can't play your games inside of a person so this should be removed.

USA Notable Wins[edit]

Date Match Result Type Of Match
06/29/1950  United States 1 – 0  England WIN 1950 FIFA World Cup
06/22/1994  United States 2 – 1  Colombia WIN 1994 FIFA World Cup
07/14/1995  United States 3 – 0  Argentina WIN 1995 Copa America
02/10/1998  United States 1 – 0  Brazil WIN 1998 CONCACAF Gold Cup
07/30/1999  United States 2 – 0  Germany WIN 1999 FIFA Confederations Cup
06/05/2002  United States 3 – 2  Portugal WIN 2002 FIFA World Cup
06/17/2002  United States 2 – 0  Mexico WIN 2002 FIFA World Cup
06/24/2009  United States 2 – 0  Spain WIN 2009 FIFA Confederations Cup

Was digging in the history and remembered this in the main article a while ago and was deleted because it was POV. But I think I'll just put it here just in case for future references and developments. OneiroPhobia (talk) 13:01, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I probably agree with removing a table like this, especially since all of those wins are dealt with in the main history section (or will be when the Confed Cup gets moved there in a few months). I think there is a lack of verifiability to the criteria, just like the notable players sections that that one editor went on a jihad against awhile back. Anyway, that's just my opinion. – Football.Fútbol.Soccer 17:58, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Why are wins against Colombia and Mexico included? They aren't good teams. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:18, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Too many sub-headings in the history section[edit]

The history section is broken up into far to many sub-headings, some for only a handful of sentences. This totally breaks up the flow, and looks pretty poor. I removed a lot of these, but the work was almost immediately undone, so I thought I'd start a discussion about this. The section could possibly be trimmed down too, as there is already a separate article, History of the United States men's national soccer team. Dancarney (talk) 14:13, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the direction in which you want this article to go. We should work to improve it, not to maintain the status quo. It's also very inconsistent in its coverage. I'm pretty sure this has come up before. There are whole eras covered by only a sentence while other individual tournaments get extensive coverage. We should have short summaries here on this article's history section, and the history article, which needs a lot of work, should become more balanced throughout its coverage of various eras. JohnnyPolo24 (talk) 15:42, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I would agree, and the only person actively objecting is a self confessed sockpuppet of Football.Fútbol.Soccer, who is banned as a sockpuppet of Grant.Alpaugh. So reverting now to Dan's last.
However, I must again object to the disproportionate detail of recent events, previously justified by an expression of intent to summarise it at some unspecified future event. This seems to be the epitome of WP:Recentism]] Kevin McE (talk) 16:41, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
And despite the presence of this discussion, he undid my restoration of Dan's version, saying it was done without discussion. I wonder what his next identity will be. Kevin McE (talk) 06:05, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Obviously given Grant's MO it will be quite easy to find and ban his latest sockpuppet, but I find it pretty scary that he can show up at any time under any identity and we won't immediately know. Eightball (talk) 07:05, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Schedule and recent results[edit]

This section has been present in the USMNT article for as long as I can remember. I can think of no legitimate reason to remove it, especially without discussion. So, discuss why here. Che84 (talk) 06:19, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Obviously it should be included but I think a more pressing discussion is how outdated our table is. Most other national teams have much more informative results tables, with color-coding and what not. But I've always been opposed when I try to make those changes to this article. I wish we could agree on something here but I think we almost need a wikiproject standard. Eightball (talk) 07:08, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
OK now that I look at some more articles I'm seeing that there is literally no consensus whatsoever as to the design of the results table, or even if we even need one in the article (e.g. some articles only show the most recent and the next scheduled games). I think I've made my position pretty clear so if anyone else wants to contribute that'd be great, it seems like we have a ton of leeway here. Eightball (talk) 07:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a news service, so I don't see why an encyclopaedic article on any national team would have recent or upcoming games. The only national football team article to achieve featured article status is Germany women's national football team, and this has no such thing. Note that football club articles do not have this kind of section either. Dancarney (talk) 16:31, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, what really needs to happen is to create a series of "[Insert year] in American soccer" articles. The results currently on this article should be moved to 2009 in American soccer. They are erroneously included at United States men's national soccer team 2009 results, an article that has been discussed at WT:FOOTY and archived here. I'd help get some work done if we can get a few people that want to work on it. JohnnyPolo24 (talk) 15:54, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
I think that you should move the page to the correct name. I think having a full line-up for very single game is overkill and makes the page quite overwhelming. Though it is for a club side, I think something like Gillingham F.C. season 2008–09 would be a good article to try and emulate. Dancarney (talk) 10:15, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

The consensus on this article for literally years has been to include all future games and games played within the last 6 months. This parallels the recent call-ups sections for players. This way when a result is removed from the table, the players who last played in those games are removed from the article as well. This year, we added more info about the tournaments the team played in, and after they were removed from the recent results table, the information about those tournaments would be added to the history section of the article. That seems like a good system to me. (talk) 03:29, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

For an editor who had just one contribution to your name prior to the last 48 hours, you seem to have a very developed knowledge of wikipedia, and of the history of this page in particular. Please identify yourself if you have previously edited under other names. Kevin McE (talk) 09:18, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
So now you have to have edited the article to know what it looked like for the last year before these changes were made? I can read, is that so bad? (talk) 17:15, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Maybe other users would benfit from looking at the sections of the talk page with titles like "Recent Results," "Current squad," etc. These are the basis for the consensus that governed the format of the page for literally years until a month ago. (talk) 17:17, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Quoting from above:

I think there is a distinction between non-playing players who dressed with the matchday squad and guys who were in camp but didn't make the roster. First, I think it's more relevant to see if a player is being called up because there are some situations in which a player is consistently a backup but doesn't see much action (say, Brad Guzan when WC qualifying starts and Tim Howard plays every game). But still, I think it's good to list who else is in the picture. Secondly, since Bob Bradley's non-roster camp players are in different categories, I think they should be excluded. In this case, the non-gameday roster camp players were simply outplayed by the competition. But in the pre-Switzerland camp, BB also called in some guys simply for consideration for the U-23 team (such as Preston Zimmerman, Tally Hall, and Steve Purdy) and it would be misleading to list them as recent callups because while they are prospects for the US youth teams, all three of them are pretty far from getting time with the senior team. So in the interests of consistency, I think we should list all players who make a gameday roster and nobody else. --Balerion (talk) 19:13, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree fully with that. Che84 (talk) 20:40, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I concur with this. howcheng {chat} 23:06, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

There is a broad base for this consensus on the squad, none of which is Grant.Alpaugh, the user you all seem to have a witch hunt out for. There is more than one user who thinks things should have stayed the same way. (talk) 17:20, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

You really have no idea how to keep a low profile, do you? Eightball (talk) 05:08, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Charlie Davies[edit]

I have taken the liberty of creating a distinctive mark on the page regarding the injuries suffered by Charlie Davies this day at 3:15 a.m. While I presume he will miss significant time because of this, I'm not sure. Also, as I said in the edit summary, I read this on (and also US Soccers website) but I dont know how to cite these sources74.101.124.213 (talk) 03:19, 14 October 2009 (UTC) (talk) 03:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC). —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:47, 13 October 2009 (UTC)


I very rarely hear the US national team being referred to as either the Stars and Stripes or the Red White and Blue. "The Nats" and "Team USA" and far, far more common. Can we change this? Eightball (talk) 03:30, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

I think the 1st two are basically your generic, cliche nicknames for basically any USA representive team. Whether we remove them I don't know. I'm inclined to keep them just for the sake of it. Transaction Go (talk) 13:57, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't want to say "never," because that seems too strong, but I've definitely never heard anyone says "The Stars and Stripes" in reference to the team. At the very least that should be removed. Eightball (talk) 17:48, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── We're having another one of those fun little edit wars over the remaining nickname, "the Yanks". So far as I can see, this is not an official or even generally used nickname for the team to anywhere near the extent of what we consider to be a reliably-sourced nickname ("the Black Stars", "the Azzuri" et cetera). It's a mildly pejorative term for Americans which happens to get attached to the team because, well, they're American. If there isn't better referencing (and no, the existence of a blog called "The Yanks Are Coming" isn't enough) then this should be removed again. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 13:40, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Even if a single nickname is most common, this is incidental information that can be given a passing mention in the text. In the vast majority of cases where there are several nicknames without wide adoption, it has sunk to the level of trivia. It doesn't need to be in the infobox at all. Knepflerle (talk) 14:38, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
This is just my two cents, but I'd rather there not be a nickname in the infobox at all than to see "the Nats" and/or "Team USA" included. For what its worth, as an American, I don't consider the term "Yank" to be pejorative at all, and certainly not to the level that "Pom" or "Limey" are. Specifically within the soccer community, I think this is especially true. -- Grant.Alpaugh 15:07, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
If it were frequently used, it wouldn't particularly matter if it were slightly pejorative or not (WP:V, WP:NOTCENSORED etc.). But as it isn't actually much used, we don't need to go through that hypothetical exercise: I agree that the field should be removed entirely. Knepflerle (talk) 16:05, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
The issue is not whether yanks is perjorative, but whether it is any more than an informal demonym: it is used to refer to Americans, not the United States men's national soccer team in particular. In a match report about Charlton, Millwall or Crystal Palace, a journalist might refer to the South Londoners: it is an informal reference which, in context, identifies the team that it is talking about, but it is not a nickname. Kevin McE (talk) 22:07, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Are you saying that because its an informal name for a group of people that it can't be a team nickname? That the equivalent of the Ole Miss Rebels or New York Yankees. 'The Yanks' may not be official, but I think most soccer fans have come to know the US team as the Yanks. Numerous times tv announcers have called us the Yanks, which does refer to the team as Americans, but is that not how nicknames begin? Also, the USSF has had commercials and advertisements saying "The Yanks are coming". —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
If it is established, then do as has been requested several times, and source it. That is how disputed material becomes verified, and disputes are resolved. Kevin McE (talk) 20:20, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
How many sources do y'all need for Yanks? Newsweek France '98 Supporters Boston Ireland--- Karataev —Preceding unsigned comment added by Karataev (talkcontribs) 04:49, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
One or two would have been enough, but thank you. It's a shame that it took so long, and that so many editors thought it OK to add it even after a source had been requested. Kevin McE (talk) 12:14, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
I've changed it, citing two of the sources Karataev kindly provided. Hopefully this will the last of this inane bickering. Folks, TONS of media sources call the national team "The Yanks," as well as a lot of fans. (talk) 02:11, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

This was removed again. I reverted and added a reference to FIFA using the nickname. PantsB (talk) 00:11, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The name "Yanks" was removed once again, I have reverted it. It is absolutely the most commonly used nickname used to refer to the team by international commentators and supporters alike. American supporters typically sing Over There by Leonard Cohen because of the line "The Yanks are coming, the Yanks are coming," and often sing "When the Yanks Go Marching In," a modified version of "When the Saints Go Marching In" as they are filing into a stadium before a USMNT game. [1] Personally, I have never heard the team itself referred to as the "Stars and Stripes," but I have left that alone as it is well sourced. RPIRED (talk) 14:02, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Old he may be but I don't think Leonard Cohen would have been song-writing in 1917! - maybe try George M. Cohan ?? Gwladys24 (talk) 00:14, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

My issue with the nickname Yanks is that it is used for others to describe the US team and not for the US to describe itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

US Mutant Ninja Turtles needs to be added — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:34, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Away Kit[edit]

I've watched football and US doesn't have a black away kit, it's blue. Could someone upload the picture?--Microsoft 1000 Defender and Ruler of Cyberspace! 14:04, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

New kits?[edit]

According to fedefutbol: The Kits are different: Fedefutbol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kanzler31 (talkcontribs) 20:04, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

I'd wait for an official announcement of some kind before making any changes. Though it wouldn't shock me if Nike changed them right before the World Cup. JohnnyPolo24 (talk) 20:53, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

I watched the USA vs El Salvador game. The kits are not new. They have the same white stripped-shirt.--Kanzler31 (talk) 23:49, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

DaMarcus Beasley[edit]

On the current squad section, I already had a couple people reverting my edit with DaMarcus Beasley. I edited that one spot on the roster saying that he's a free agent, and a couple people reverted my edit, saying he's still a Rangers player. You look here, his time with Rangers is over, so therefore, he's without a club. – Michael (talk) 22:15, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Contracts don't expire until June 30. People often talk as is a player is gone because he's "as good as gone", much like DMB, though it's not technically official until the technical end of the season, which is at the end of June. JohnnyPolo24 (talk) 11:37, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


Would there be any objections to adding the players' birthplaces to the article (or at least their state of birth?). ~DC Let's Vent 20:17, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

To what purpose? howcheng {chat} 05:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
People might be interested. ~DC Let's Vent 05:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
That's why there are links to the players' articles. Of no significance to the team, and unless you are suggesting that there will be a whole new section to give this info, then I suspect you are looking at changing the Template:National_football_squad_player_(goals), which is on hundreds of articles, and therefore should not be altered without previous consensus at WT:FOOTY. Kevin McE (talk) 06:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Then why include what team they play for? Surely people who care about that can be bothered to click on a player's article. Hell, why put their position on? Just click away. God forbid we put readers' interest first. ~DC Let's Vent 08:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Because position and club team are relevant. If you read any sports media that reports on soccer, you will always see these two items when team rosters are listed. Location of birth is not normally included (and I don't recall ever seeing it anywhere). Besides, as Kevin McE explained, you need to look at the bigger picture: this format is consistent across all national football team articles. We can't just change it for the US. That discussion, should you choose to initiate it, needs to take place at WT:FOOTY, so that the impact can be gauged by all editors who are interested in football articles. howcheng {chat} 08:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Hey Guys, just added a few tidbits about Weezer's support for the Yanks for WC2010, I apologize if they were not formatted correctly. I feel like this information is relevant so feel free to move it around if need be. FranCam114 —Preceding undated comment added 06:24, 12 June 2010 (UTC).


On the USSF logo, there are three stars. I couldn't find any information in the article, nor the archives, as to why there are stars on the logo and what they mean. The German national team has three stars, but they won three World Cups. The US national team hasn't. Does anyone have any information on that, that can be added to the article?Ciderbarrel (talk) 20:14, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

This is not official, but I would assume it would have to do with the American flag having stars on it. It's similar to how Ghana has a black star in their logo. Unlike Germany and Brazil, the stars in the US logo are not gold. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:34, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
It's just a bad logo made in the 90's by people who didn't understand the meaning of stars in international football. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:21, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Simply for decoration. See Manchester City's emblem as well, and that is only for decoration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrwoot08 (talkcontribs) 04:06, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

United States men's national soccer team fact request[edit]

It's been reported in several stories I've seen and read. However, WP:V applies. I am busy and may try to find it. You could probably google it using the words, B-whatever. ----moreno oso (talk) 12:48, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

? Kevin McE (talk) 19:22, 18 June 2010 (UTC)


Why is this page called United States men's national soccer team when all the other football associations' first teams are titled as Brazilian national football team for example? Stephen MUFC (talk) 21:35, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually, Brazilian national football team is a redirect to the article's correct name, Brazil national football team. But I assume you're asking why this article uses "soccer" in its title rather than "football". The answer is that in Anglophonic North America, association football is known as "soccer", and "football" refers to American football or Canadian football, depending on which of the two countries you're in. Then you've got the fact that the women's national team enjoys an exposure in the United States that is at times (during the Olympics, for instance) greater than that of the men, to the point that ESPN actually uses former members of the women's team as their commentators and analysts for men's football. So it's necessary to specify that this article is about the men's team in its name. Binabik80 (talk) 23:30, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Yes, but there’s no national gridiron side to speak of (I know the U.S. has been represented in various international American football competitions). On top of that, AFAICT, this is the only country that specifies men’s in the name. Great for the U.S. for being so enlightened, but either drop it, or change everyone else’s for consistency. —Wiki Wikardo 06:23, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
There's really no need to change the title either of this article or of all the others just so we can pander to the hobgoblin of little minds. In the United States, the men's and women's national teams have roughly equal prominence (the balance between them shifts depending on whether there's a World Cup, Women's World Cup or Summer Olympics on), so it makes sense to specify that this article is about the men's team. If there are other countries where the men's and women's teams enjoy such parity, then a good argument can be made for adding "men's" to those countries' articles as well; but for the vast majority of countries, it would make no more sense to include "men's" in the article title than it would to remove it from the US team's article title. (For instance, broadcasters will frequently specify which sex team is playing in upcoming matches: "Tomorrow night, the US men's soccer team is in action in a World Cup qualifier against Costa Rica!") As to soccer vs football, in America, "football" without any further clarification refers to American football, not soccer. There's no national American football team, and //women's// American football is practically nonexistent, but say "men's national football team" and the overwhelming majority of Anglophonic Americans will assume you're talking about American football, not association football. Change "soccer" to "football" here, and all you'd do is fill this talk page with Americans objecting to the highhanded arrogance of foreigners preventing them from using their own English on an article about their own country—and they'd be one hundred per cent right. Binabik80 (talk) 04:23, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Growing up I thought only Americans called the sport soccer and the rest of the world called the sport football. I believed this because that was what the press told me. Then I actually began to travel and discovered that a surprising number of people called the sport soccer, including the Welsh, Irish, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans . . . well, just about everyone colonized by the British. Other ethnic and national groups called the sport by local names, the best known are the Italians whose national team is the Nazionale di calcio dell'Italia which loosely translates as National Kicking of Italy. Only in the last ten years have national federations begun to change their names from soccer to football. Although Australia made the change in 2005, the national team remains the Socceroos. New Zealand changed their name in 2007. Despite this, a surprising number of people at the street level continue to ignore the officals and call the sport soccer. This includes South Korea[2], New Zealand[3], Ireland[4], Scotland[5], England[6], Wales[7], France[8], Japan, Canada, South Africa, Zimbabwe and perhaps even more places than I know. So be careful about being too sarcastic about Americans calling the sport "soccer". That sarcasm makes the whole criticism appear to be less a matter of correct diction and more a judgemental anti-Americanism. Mohrflies (talk) 00:43, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

The whole hang-up about "soccer" seems to be a primarily British phenomenon of the last 3 or 4 decades when it became well-known that the term was commonly used in the USA. Unfortunately the myth has grown that the term is an Americanisation whereas it actually dates back to the 19th Century in England & was a common term for football in Britain for most of the 20th Century, but almost seems frowned upon now as a result of the aforementioned misconception. Gwladys24 (talk) 21:40, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Very true. Soccer like 'rugger' were terms that fell out of use in some places but caught on in some of the other countries mentioned above. Also an fyi about the 'National Kicking' translation. The word calcio can be a verb, and a noun. If the translation was 'kicking' then the correct tense would be 'calciando'. The noun would be, for example, "dare un calcio"- to give a kick. But in "Nazionale di calcio" the term is actually the proper noun 'Calcio'. Which is the name of the sport played on the peninsula for centuries. Whereby the translation is the Italian National Calcio team, where Calcio may or may not be translated to football or soccer. Libro0 (talk) 03:07, 14 September 2011 (UTC)


For the World Cup, 2002 and 2006 have "cycles" that encompass everything, yet 2010 has a "cycle", a "qualification", and a "world cup" heading. Proposing the merge of all three of these into 1 summary, just like for 2002 and 2006. -- Erroneuz1 (talk) 17:35, 27 June 2010 (UTC)


Can anyone provide a source for a player's total number of international appearances? Specifically I'm looking for Jay DeMerit, but a general one would be handy for future reference. Thanks, WFCforLife (talk) 15:43, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Here Fache (talk) 04:02, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Third kit[edit]

Pictures were released of the new red third jersey, but nothing has been shown of the shorts or socks, so I've hidden the third kit section until the kits are officially unveiled. However, I have uploaded the body and sleeves of the jersey, so they'll be ready to use when the uniform is unveiled. --Kevin W./TalkCFB uniforms/Talk 05:54, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Pictures here show the shorts and socks. Blue shorts, red trim. Red socks, blue trim.!/album.php?fbid=10150122443688941&id=32421823940&aid=290158 Azyrii (talk) 05:06, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Ok, so they'll just be wearing the road shorts. That makes things easier. --Kevin W./TalkCFB uniforms/Talk 06:32, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

History Section -- 1930 World Cup Result[edit]

Concerning the following paragraph --

"Having reached the semifinals with the two wins, the American side lost 6–1 to Argentina. Using the overall tournament records, FIFA credited the U.S. with a third place finish ahead of fellow semi-finalist Yugoslavia.[12] The finish remains the team's best World Cup result and is tied for the highest finish of any team from outside of CONMEBOL and UEFA, the South American and European confederations, respectively."

If one checks the record, actually, all other third-place teams ARE from CONMEBOL or UEFA. This means that the 1930 American team is not tied for the best World Cup finish among teams not from those confederations; they have it outright. Accordingly, the article has been changed. -- (talk) 05:49, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Historical kits deletion[edit]

Historical kits that the team used to wear are not encyclopaedic content, i.e. that is not the sort of info you'd expect to see in a print encyclopaedia. Furthermore, that info was completely unsourced. – PeeJay 21:44, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

I don´t know what are you based on to say that historical kits are not encyclopaedic content. The uniforms that a team wore are certainly part of its history. I saw that you also deleted Boca Juniors uniforms and badges, which had remained for a long time on the page. If you don´t agree with some points of view, each article has a discuss page. Reverting anything without consulting is not the way. Fma12 (talk) 14:00, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
I meant image galleries aren't encyclopaedic. In fact, they're pretty much useless without text to back them up. If a kit is worth mentioning at all, mention it in prose. I mean, check out Manchester United F.C. That's a Featured Article, and you don't see any ridiculous image galleries there. Image galleries are the last port of call for the editor desperate to fill an article with content. – PeeJay 05:07, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Obviously such sections are enhanced by text, but it would be more appropriate to tag an images only section with a request/challenge than to delete without discussion. Indeed, there is a rather stubby section on history of the kit in the team image section. Kevin McE (talk) 09:14, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Well, we at least need text to explain why the chosen kits are notable enough to warrant mentioning in the article. Otherwise, their inclusion is actually more POV than anything. – PeeJay 12:10, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Year errors[edit]

The history section states that first international was in 1884, and second next year. However, the infobox has year 1885 for the first international. Which is right? (talk) 16:26, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I believe 84 (talk) 04:11, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

There were actually many international matches played in the 1880s. After the establishment of the AFA in 1884 there were organized a number of matches with the Canadian organization- Dominion FA. The 'US national team' was simply an AFA select IX playing the Dominion selection. Sometimes an AFA IX would play a canadian club team or an AFA club would play the Canadian selection. And sometimes it would simply be an international match between two club teams of the respective associations. Usually a Canadian IX and/or club would visit the US during the season around November-December while at the end of the season the American IX and/or clubs would head up to Canada for a series. Libro0 (talk) 03:07, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

You did not answer to the question. Is either 1884 or 1885 right or not? (talk) 12:15, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I know the answer is in there somewhere in the sense that they were not full 'A' international matches at least not recognized as such by FIFA. So neither 84 or 85 are correct in that regard. Libro0 (talk) 21:32, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

At least in UK, it seems "International" means a match between two national teams. I don't know if the US use of the word is different.
And, what does that "IX" mean? 9 or 9th would be my guess, but why just 9? (talk) 03:14, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
I don't see IX anywhere in the article: any use in the context of a team in an 11 a side sport is almost certainly a typo for XI. Kevin McE (talk) 09:00, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
The only time I know of IX referred to in American sports would simply be a section number (region) for a level of soccer or in Title IX which is the equality of women's sports law here in America. I am not sure what the IX Libro0 is talking about above, I imagine as Kevin is a typo...although I have never seen the 11 players referred to in roman numerals either. Chris1834 (talk) 22:09, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Schedule/Recent Results[edit]

Should the page be within 6 months or a year? It has traditionally been 6 months, but i feel that a year is better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:10, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

It can be discussed, but there needs to be an overwhelming support to make the change for it to be made from the status quo. Personally I feel a year is too long a time period and does not really reflect the idea of recent results. Rebajc3 (talk) 22:19, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I just like to see a whole year's worth of results. Who remembers the Chile game in December? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:22, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

For starters, the Chile game was in January, and by going to a year, you would also have to include the Poland, Colombia, and South Africa results as well. For a better look at games outside the six month window, I encourage to click on the link at the top of the section that goes to 2011 in American soccer which will have all games played in the calendar year at all levels, with more details available for those matches than the main page. Rebajc3 (talk) 22:25, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I meant results in a single year, like only 2011 results in a single table. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:47, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

That table and information is available on the page that I linked in my last comment. Rebajc3 (talk) 23:44, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi, what do you think about using the template {{footballbox collapsible}} for the recent results? TøW€®MªN ™ answer me 12:59, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Not a bad idea actually. i would support it— Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:22, 29 August 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)


Not for the first time, recentism is being pursued in this article as though it were a specific goal. We don't even name the manager of the team in the prose prior to 1995 (which is obviously an omission), but now we are listing the current boss's first, second ...(how many more?) results. If a friendly in 1958 (random year) is not sufficiently notable to be included in the history section, why is the one last week? And the response to the suggestion that listing recent matches when we don't describe those longer ago is recentism? "we have recently" ! Kevin McE (talk) 16:54, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Honestly, who cares about recentism at all? We need to report specific games in an encyclopedia format in order to preserve the memory of those games. I and many others prefer looking at recent results in multiple forms. We haven't just listed Klinsman's results; all results after the world cup are included. And stop quoting me in self-righteous anger. 1958, really!? And there wasn't a manager in 1958, that's why we don't name him.

I was only quoting you if you also post from I suggest that you read WP:RECENTISM if you are not familiar with it, and then read the history section of this article, and see if you honestly believe that the principles of the former are enshrined in the latter. Kevin McE (talk) 00:39, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
I have read recentism and it is pointless. This is an encyclopedia; therefore, post all results — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:45, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
In that case, you need to read WP:NOT, and especially [WP:WHIM]]. Kevin McE (talk) 08:46, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
It says=encyclopedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:55, 27 November 2011 (UTC)


I have recently noticed that has "contributed" several erroneous messages and other vandalism to the page. Please do something about this!!!

Kit Order[edit]

The men's national team official site lists the kits in this order: white (home), blue (away), red (third). Until they officially change this, please keep the kits in this order. Bmanphilly (talk) 17:36, 19 November 2011 (UTC)


I've been itching to write something about the US and England rivalry that resurged during World Cup 2010. I know it's not as popular as US's clashes with Mexico but let's face it, the reason why I mention it is because of the tension both nations had outside of soccer. The Revolutionary War, the tea taxes, our rebellion against anything associated with the British and King George II. But disregarding those topic that might not be approved by the WIki rules they DID have that "miracle on grass" moment when the US made the 1-0 upset during 1950, which funnily enough headlined most news and papers from many nation save these two. Also there's that topic about the English having a problem with the term "soccer" although this is somewhat of a biased opinion since Canada and other nations still under or free from British rule refer to the sport as "soccer" due to having other sports under or derived from sports with the Codes of Football applied to them.

But this is just a suggestion since implying that US's sole rival is Mexico is not true. (talk) 07:45, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

If there had been many fixtures in the last decades of the eighteenth century, there might have been a rivalry. No perception of any meaningful sense of rivalry on the east bank of the Atlantic. I think you will have gret difficulty finding any meaningful sources. Kevin McE (talk) 11:22, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Is there anybody out there, other than an unregistered editor who is almost certainly the banned user Walter Görlits (not to be confused with the entirely good faith user Walter Görlitz), and very probably a sockpuppet of banned users Amerxican and RealEarthquake, of the opinion that there should be a plural heading to the international rivalry/rivalries section while there is only one rivalry described? Kevin McE (talk) 06:51, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
Obviously I am on board as I have tried myself to change it to a singular title. Leaving it a plural title in the event that there will be a future rivalry put in to this section is a crap shoot. The title is currently misleading and can easily be changed to a plural title, if and when a second rivalry exists...which less face it, takes a while to come about. Chris1834 (talk) 11:46, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
In this case, I think the plural is most appropriate. The singular is unusual usage (since it's unusual to have only a single rivalry) and strikes me as slightly confusing. If the plural grates, perhaps consider the section to be as much about the lack of rivalries as it is about the single established one? Powers T 21:18, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be a mention of the USA vs. Canada rivalry? After all, that fixture is the oldest in the world, excluding the ones between the British nations. While Canada hasn't been particularly good, the two nations have played quite a few times in recent history, including in competitive context. It's also a very fierce rivalry in the Women's game. Adnan7631 (talk) 22:51, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

The only thing to say about the US/Canada rivalry is that it doesn't exist. If you want to write something about the rivalry in the women's game — if one exists — go ahead and write that on the women's national team page, but it doesn't belong here. Barryjjoyce (talk) 17:24, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

2014 Qualifying?[edit]

In the last round of qualifying, the U.S. page had an entire section devoted to it including a table. Now we don't even have an updated mention of the results except for the recent results section. This somewhat worries me. Has interest died down, or did the debate on "recentism" kill off any sort of listing of results? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:48, 6 October 2012 (UTC)


I don't know how to do kits on wikipedia, but if someone does, they could fill in several decades. From 1914 up to the late 1920s, the U.S. had only one kit, a long-sleave, v-neck white shirt with the U.S. shield centered on the chest. The socks were red and white hoops. By the 1930 World Cup, the shirt included blue trim around the neck and red trim around the wrists.[9] By 1934, the U.S. had a home and away kit. The home kit was the white top and the away had a blue top with white trim around the neck and wrists.[10] In 1975 the away jersey was an all-red, long sleave shirt.[11] In the late 1970s, the U.S. kit was a solid blue, short-sleave jersey with USA diagonal across the left breast.[12] Mohrflies (talk) 18:37, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Coach profiles[edit]

What's with the factoid profiles in the table listing the coaching staff? I've never seen that on any other team's page, and it's pretty arbitrary and appears to be written from a non-neutral perspective, trying to trump up their credentials. If we want to know about these guys, we can click through to their page (some of them are so obscure that they don't even have one). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chillstep89 (talkcontribs) 22:36, 11 March 2013 (UTC) I agree with all of this guy's information so yeah... yeah, I um agree

Kit Update[edit]

The 2013 Centennial Kit is incomplete. It contains the original US Soccer crest on the upper left side (not centered like the original).

Also, the footer pertaining to the 2012-2013 kit is no longer relevant as this is the official version, and not a leaked version. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Buddylee415 (talkcontribs) 21:19, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy precludes logos from appearing on soccer kits. That includes federation crests, sponsor logos and manufacturer logos. Also, the kit section in the main box is incorrect, as the US is still using the hooped jersey. --Kevin W. - Talk 03:03, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

FIFA World Ranking history section[edit]

I just wanted to know if we could remove the section on FIFA World Ranking history? The infobox at the top of the article shows the most recent ranking as well as the highest and lowest and I think that is sufficient information, the ranking table is a bit overkill and unnecessary.--2nyte (talk) 02:50, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Get rid of it then... to me I agree that it is an overkill. --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 01:12, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Nickname: The Von Trapps[edit]

Special:Contributions/ has repeatedly added "The Von Trapps" to the infobox under nicknames with this [13] source. I assume it is vandalism; I can't find any reputable source for "The Von Trapps" as a nickname of the USMNT and the source provided mockingly uses wikipedia as conformation for the nickname. The IP user keeps adding the information so I thought I should bring up the topic here.--2nyte (talk) 01:47, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

It's just some guy on a podcast - there's no reference to the nickname in reliable sources. It's apparently a reference to a number of German-raised players being capped for the national team. Hack (talk) 02:00, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
Obviously a candidate for deletion. The very fact that the source being cited is Wiki-based should be reason enough to delete it, as that does not make for a reliable source. Furthermore, if that source uses Wikipedia as a source, we're getting into a cyclical situation where Wikipedia is being used as a source for itself. Definite delete. – PeeJay 10:26, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
Would this link be deemed a proper source for the nickname? Link: - Mike Moresi 20:28, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
That's not a reliable source either. So no. – Michael (talk) 00:27, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Men in Blazers is a reliable source. Besides the fact that it's currently the third most popular sports podcast in the iTunes store (second only to the Guardian and to ESPN's Pardon the Interruption) and ahead of any podcast from any other major news network, MiB is affiliated with ESPN, Ian Darke and has routinely hosted past and present USMNT members on its show including Kyle Beckerman and Alexi Lalas and has done collaborations with ESPN as well as the USMNT's largest supporter group the American Outlaws. If credibility with one of the world's largest sports media organizations and with the USMNT's most influential supporter group isn't credibility, I'm not sure what is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:39, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
Additionally, Roger Bennett of Men in Blazers is director of the ESPN series "Inside US Soccer's March to Brazil" and producer of a number of soccer themed episodes of ESPN's "30 For 30" series. Michael Davies, the other half of the duo, is a successful television producer in his own right. Beyond the already mentioned success of the podcast, they also have a twice weekly show on Sirius XM by the same name. Their credibility extends far beyond just "some guy on a podcast". (talk) 20:45, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Year 2013 on main article under "Results and Fixtures"[edit]

The year is 2014. There is no need to have the 2013 table up. In fact, we did not even have the 2012 table up last year. Now, that the first game of the 2014 season has concluded, the 2013 table is no longer needed for display there. Besides, the 2013 results can be found here: 2013 in American soccer. The alternative is to include the years relevant to the World Cup cycle, which should include 2012's results. KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 11:11, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Good idea. Let's remove it. Barryjjoyce (talk) 06:29, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

1954 FIFA World Cup[edit]

United States failed to qualify for the first time until 1986 (United States was withdrew from the 1938 tournament), before his return in 1990. (talk) 18:56, 16 April 2014 (CET)

World Cup squad number sources?[edit]

A few of the players listed in the current squad have numbers next to them. Where are these numbers coming from? Are there any sources? Most of them make sense (Bradley 4, Dempsey 8) but I just haven't seen a reference. Eightball (talk) 12:38, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

There has been no official announcement yet, it's just speculation. I've added a ref and removed the squad numbers for now. I think we should wait until an official announcement until we add squad numbers.--2nyte (talk) 12:59, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 June 2014[edit]

Should read United States National Football Team...because it is. (talk) 16:06, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Thanks, Older and ... well older (talk) 17:10, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2014[edit]

| Nickname = The Stars and Stripes[1]
The Yanks[2]
Team USA[3]
The Von Trapps[4]


  1. ^ Wilson, Paul (June 26, 2010). "USA 1–2 Ghana". The Guardian. London. 
  2. ^ The Yanks Are Coming USA-HON Commercial. U.S. Soccer. Retrieved on August 12, 2013.
  3. ^
  4. ^ Meoli, Jon (May 30, 2014). "Soccer fandom, Broadway intersect as local teacher pens unofficial U.S. Soccer World Cup theme song". The Baltimore Sun. Baltimore. 

CoastalCo (talk) 20:44, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 21:03, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Brooks caps[edit]

He has only 5 caps, not 6. Could someone edit the number to be correct? FlipsLikeAPancake (talk) 20:18, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Fixed. – Michael (talk) 23:29, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Recent call-ups[edit]

The recent call-ups section includes so many names that it is really not all that helpful. There are 44 names on this list (in addition to the 23 names on the current squad). I see no reason to list a total of 67 players. There are a couple of ways we could trim it to a more reasonable length. One option would be to include only players that have caps. If a player has not played for the national team, there is no reason to list them. This would take out 11 of the 44 recent call-ups. A second option would be to include only players from the last 6 months instead of the last 12 months, which would cut the list in half. Other ideas? Barryjjoyce (talk) 20:46, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

@Intruder007: You reverted my recent change re uncapped players. If you disagree, please use the talk page to explain why. Thanks. Barryjjoyce (talk) 01:16, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

What I meant was that you shouldn't erase players from Recent Call-ups until the 12 month timeline has expired, which someone previously did with people like Herculez Gomez and Jack McInerney. Sorry for not being quite clear.Intruder007 (talk) 01:21, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

@Intruder007: I moved your comment above to this section, because it looks like you were responding to my question right above. If you want Hercules Gomez to stay on there for another 6 days, no problem, I can wait until next week and then remove him again. My question, though, is why Jack McInerny or any other uncapped player should be on this list. If a person has not played for the US team, my view is they don't belong on the USMNT wiki page. Barryjjoyce (talk) 01:46, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Because one thing is to be called up by the coach and another is that the coach plays him, that's why there's a bunch of uncapped players. It happens on every team.The list of call-ups not just capped players. I hope that clears the air about the subject a bit :) Intruder007 (talk) 03:47, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't think you've addressed my questions. What is the point in listing 60+ guys in the players section? And why list players who have never played for the national team? There is a big difference between being invited to train with the team for a few days, versus actually playing for the team and earning a cap. My view is that guys who have never played for the national team don't belong on this page. Barryjjoyce (talk) 16:09, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

I think this issue should be discussed on WT:FOOTY. – Michael (talk) 16:53, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Seattle Sounders FC[edit]

I was wondering if we could shorten up the name to just "Seattle Sounders" on the players' list, I mean, we know it's a football club (making the "FC" part, well redundant) and it would match the format of the rest of the MLS clubs of only having the city name and the club's nickname. I'll clarify that this is purely for aesthetic reasons, if you don't wanna make the change, I'll be cool with it.Intruder007 (talk) 03:58, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Rankings and sub-confed[edit]

@Barryjjoyce: Maximum and minimum Elo ratings are just as important as maximum and minimum FIFA rankings. I don't know why you think the USMNT is an exception not to have this info but it's there on EVERY other national team's article. As for the sub-confederation, the info is also important because the USA is an active member of the North American Football Union, and that info is shown on the Canada and Mexico articles as well. Every African national team article also has its sub-confederation info. Davykamanzitalkcontribsalter ego 16:16, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Let's talk about NAFU first. If NAFU is so important, then why is there not a single mention of it in this article? Or in the Canada or Mexico article? Also, are you familiar with MOS:INFOBOX#Purpose_of_an_infobox and Help:Infobox#What_should_an_infobox_not_contain.3F? Barryjjoyce (talk) 17:58, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
@Barryjjoyce: I'll let the NAFU matter slide, but maximum/minimum Elo ratings aren't trivial details and it most certainly doesn't make the infobox "lengthy". They're almost as important (if not just as important) as FIFA rankings, which is why that info is there on every other national team's article. Davykamanzitalkcontribsalter ego 21:12, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I am glad we agree on NAFU and can put that aside. Re Elo, the same arguments I made regarding NAFU apply equally: because Elo is not mentioned anywhere in the body of the article, it is not important enough to include in the infobox. MOS:INFOBOX and Help:Infobox are clear on this. Barryjjoyce (talk) 23:27, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

@Barryjjoyce: Elo rankings (and FIFA rankings) are hardly mentioned anywhere on the body of any national football team article because there's not much information to give other than the team's current ranking and its maximum and minimum rankings, which is why they're put in the infobox. I don't understand how you're failing to get this. Davykamanzitalkcontribsalter ego 23:46, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Actually, in this article, the current Elo ranking are mentioned in the infobox, and were mentioned in the body of the article until you removed it recently. Conversely, the historical Elo rankings are in neither the article body nor the article infobox; let's keep it that way. Barryjjoyce (talk) 13:48, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
@Barryjjoyce: I removed that info from the body because those rankings change regularly and it's better to keep them in the infobox. And we can't leave historical rankings out just because it's not in the body; it's still important info and that's the case with every other national team article; there's no point in mentioning it in the body when it's so much more convenient just indicating it in the infobox. Davykamanzitalkcontribsalter ego 21:09, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
It appears we have a fundamental disagreement about the importance of historical Elo rankings. I don't view them as important, and it looks like we are not going to reach agreement on this subject. I'll point out that the historical Elo rankings are present in the infobox for the History article. I'll make a deal with you — if you don't try to add them to the main article, I won't try to remove them from the History article. Barryjjoyce (talk) 02:00, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
@Barryjjoyce: Fair enough. Davykamanzitalkcontribsalter ego 18:31, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
@Barryjjoyce: I dont understand why the highest and lowest elo rankings are not in the infobox, they are in the info box of EVERY other national team! so i dont see what the problem us. Why should the US page be the only one that doesnt have them? this is ridiculous! they used to be there and all of a sudden they get removed for no reason? someone should add them back! It doesnt matter if you dont think theyre important, they are on the info box of every other team! — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:23, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

It looks like you simply rehashing an argument already made above. Barryjjoyce (talk) 13:03, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

@Barryjjoyce: It seems that for some reason you think this article's infobox should be different from the others, I didn't even realize someone else had brought this very good issue up until i came to the talk page, and why does it matter if the argument was already made? nothing came from it, the NAFU thing I agree is pointless but your stance against the elo rankings in the infobox is beyond belief! Tell me why should this article be the only one that doesnt include this? Why are you being so stubborn? Just add them back in the infobox, it does't take much space and the article will look proper! I would have already added them back but I don't know them, which is a reason why they should be there in the first place! I guess I'll have to do research to add them back. Geez this is ridiculous, are you going to go to the 200+ articles of the other national teams and remove them too? If you feel that because it's not mentioned in the article it shouldn't be in the infobox then add back what the other user removed or a modified version of it
I'd like to focus on the merits of the argument and avoid any personal attacks. Also, I hope that we can address this on the talk page and avoid any unproductive edit warring. Are you familiar with MOS:INFOBOX#Purpose_of_an_infobox and Help:Infobox#What_should_an_infobox_not_contain.3F? They make it clear that information that is not important enough to include in the article's text should not be in the infobox. Additionally, I'm not aware of any reliable sources that discuss the US historical elo rankings, which would be a further requirement for including this information. Barryjjoyce (talk) 01:07, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

@Barryjjoyce: Ok sorry. Now you still havent explained why you feel that this is the only national team article that should not have this information. All the other ones have it. It really is strange that you feel this way, the elo rankings had been in the infobox as they should for years until apparently you removed them for no reason. Now many other national team articles dont mention the elo rankings yet they still include them in the infobox. If you feel so strongly about it then perhaps a small section discussing elo could be added to the article such as when the rank went up after the 2009 confederations cup, etc. You also have to understand that while edit warring would be unproductive, you are not the owner of this article and your opinion doesnt have to be followed by everyone just because YOU believe adding a very small detail to an infobox is unimportant. I am now the second person to believe they should be included to bring this up. I'm trying to work this out but you act as if though you have to be asked permission to add them back and that's not fair as your word is not final and wikipedia is a collaborative effort. So thus far there are 2 people that want the elo rankings back versus 1. Now if we can't work this out ourselves then perhaps there could be a way to take a vote and involve more people to prevent an edit war. Oh and one more thing, you said there aren't many sources of historical elo rankings, well it isnt that big a problem as only the highest and the lowest are needed

If you think there is something worth writing about the Elo ratings, feel free to go ahead and add that to the article body, as long as it is backed up by reliable sources. As to your other suggestions, you may want to review WP:CANVASS and WP:VOTE. There have been 1.6 million views of the USMNT page over the past 90 days, but you are the only one pushing for this change. As to your conformity argument, people regularly come onto this page demanding that the title of this article be changed from "soccer" to "football" to conform with other articles, but those efforts go nowhere. Barryjjoyce (talk) 23:53, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

@Barryjjoyce:Ok well I'll try to do some research with good sources to add a small elo section to the article and after I do I'll add them back to the infobox. I was actually hoping for some help though as I haven't edited too many articles but oh well. Now about the conformity there is a difference. In the US association football is called soccer while in other countries it's called by its proper name, so in that case it is correct for the title of the article to be different from others, but the elo rankings are the same for everyone. So are we in agreement here?

All Time World Cup Results[edit]

I removed this table because: (1) it is hideous, (2) it contains a level of detail that does not belong in an overview article, (3) the page is already quite lengthy, and (4) the information can be found at the United States at the FIFA World Cup page, which is linked to the main USMNT page. Barryjjoyce (talk) 02:07, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2015[edit]

Claudio Reyna's actual USMNT caps are 112 (talk) 21:26, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Amortias (T)(C) 21:48, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2015[edit] (talk) 16:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 20:42, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2015[edit]

Claudio Reyna's caps are actually 112 not 111. Source: (talk) 16:20, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Anon126 (notify me of responses! / talk / contribs) 00:14, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2015[edit]

In the Top Goalscorers section in the Player Records section, there is a mistake regarding Bruce Murray's caps. He actually has 85 caps not 86. Sources: (talk) 19:27, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Kharkiv07Talk 22:16, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2015[edit]

In the Current Roster and Recent Call-Ups sections, both Tim Ream and Terrence Boyd have an incorrect amount of caps. Both are given 13 even though they only have 12. Sources: (talk) 01:38, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Kharkiv07Talk 02:31, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2015[edit]

In the "Most Caps" subsection of the "Player Records" section, Marcelo Balboa's caps are incorrect. He actually has 127 caps, not 128. Source: (talk) 18:42, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Jamietw (talk) 16:11, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Use of non-free images[edit]

Non-free images, such as File:US Soccer Federation.svg, need to satisfy all 10 of the criteria listed in WP:NFCCP. They also need to not be used in any of the ways explained in WP:NFC#Unacceptable use. One of these is No. 17 of WP:NFC#UUI which says that is is unacceptable to use "The logo of a entity used for identification of one of its child entities, when the child entity lacks their own branding. Specific child entity logos remain acceptable." In this particular case, the United States Soccer Federation is the parent organziation of all US national teams. This means the the logo of federation should not be used in article about these teams. This kind of usage has been discussed before at Wikipedia:Non-free content review/Archive 58#File:Union Internationale des Guides et Scouts d'Europe.svg and Wikipedia:Non-free content review/Archive 55#File:Bhutan FA.png and the result was that the logos should not be used. - Marchjuly (talk) 06:38, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

You're taking this out of context. The US Soccer Federation is the "governing body" of its national team, so essentially they are one, and not separate entities. No team, no federation. If it was a sub-entity, it would (most likely) have its own logo as the MLS and its clubs do, which are governed by the league but are individual owned by its owners. Your argument is invalid. Also, in the future before removal, be sure to collect a census. Savvyjack23 (talk) 16:04, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

However, you seem to be correct on the History of the United States men's national soccer team according to WP:NFURG. Savvyjack23 (talk) 16:22, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for the response Savvyjack23. For ther record, WP:NFC is a community-wide content guideline, just like WP:NOR, WP:V, WP:BLP, etc. Therefore, a local consesus is not needed to apply it WP:CONSENSUSLEVEL anymore than a local consesus would be needed to remove a link to copyrighted material per WP:COPYLINK. The application of No. 17 of WP:NFC#UUI to logos like this has been discussed before (as cited above) in Wikipedia:Non-free content review/Archive 55#File:Bhutan FA.png so your claim in your revert edit sum that "self-interpretation seems likely" is a little off base. Similar images have also been discussed at WP:NFCR#File:USA Hockey.svg, WP:NFCR#File:Hockey Canada.svg and WP:NFCR#File:Real Madrid CF.svg so the removal of the image was based upon established precendent and the current wording of UUI#17 and not self-interpretation on my part. However, since there is disagreement here, I will open discussion about the use of the image at WP:NFCR so please feel free to comment there if you like. - Marchjuly (talk) 22:23, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
A discussion regarding the usage of File:US Soccer Federation.svg was started at Wikipedia:Non-free content review/Archive 71#File:US Soccer Federation.svg in July 2015. It stayed unresolved at NFCR, so it was moved to Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2016 February 6#File:US Soccer Federation.svg (as part of the cleanup after the merge of WP:NFCR into WP:FFD), where it was closed by admin Explicit as "The result of the discussion was: remove from United States men's national soccer team". Those who disagree with Explicit's close are encourage to follow WP:CLOSECHALLENGE and discuss it with them, or at one of the appropriate noticeboards. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:49, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
I think you guys are grossly misunderstanding the context of UU #17 and the relationship between US Soccer and the various national teams. #17 states, "The logo of a entity used for identification of one of its child entities, when the child entity lacks their own branding." This clearly refers to a situation in which the child entity literally has NO branding whatsoever. However, the United States men's national soccer team DOES have its own branding - it just happens to share the same logo with the US Soccer Federation. It's easier to understand this when you consider the example of the United States women's team, which also shares the same logo, BUT with three stars representing three World Cup wins. Note that the USSF logo does not have these stars. This is because these are multiple entities sharing "the same" logo.
Restriction #17 is meant to prevent editors from including the US Soccer logo on the USMNT page when the former does not represent the latter. That is not the case here. The logo represents US Soccer and all of its teams equally and thus should quite clearly be included on all pages. However, the impenetrable bureaucracy of Wikipedia is preventing me from going down the proper channels to rectify this. I hope someone can assist. Eightball (talk) 17:00, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
The licensing of File:Crest of the United States Soccer Federation.png has been converted to a free license and the file is now available on Commons. I thought this might be a possibility, but wasn't sure. Anyway, unless the file's licensing is challenged at Commons, it should be fine for use in any article since free images are not subject to WP:NFCC. As for UUI#17, I think this reflects the way it has been applied through various NFCR/FFD discussions. My understanding is that in was added to try and keep non-free content minimal per NFCC#3, and not allowing such logos in individual team articles (even when they "share" the same logo). I'm not trying to say your arugument is wrong and perhaps further clarification/discussion is really needed, but I think it would be best to do that at WT:NFCC or someplace similar than an article talk page or Wikiproject talk page. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:53, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
As I said, the impenetrable bureaucracy of Wikipedia is preventing me from going down the proper channels to rectify this. It is a system explicitly designed to maintain the status quo as it is only fully understood by established editors, who tend to have no interest in changing such things. Regardless, I think it is very clear that the logo for the US men's soccer team can be legally included in the US men's soccer team article, free or otherwise. To suggest removing it is to suggest making the page worse and less informative, which requires a far stronger argument than has been presented. Eightball (talk) 16:38, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── The very last sentence of the lede for WP:NFC says "The use of non-free content on Wikipedia is therefore subject to purposely stricter standards than those laid down in U.S. copyright law", so the use of a non-free image that may be legally possible does not necessarily guarantee compliance with WP:NFCC. If you disagree with the particular wording or intent of that sentence, then you can be bold and directly change it yourself or you can propose it be changed at WT:NFC. Personally, I think the latter would be the better approach to follow since it is a policy/guideline type of page. The same applies to No. 17 of WP:NFC#UUI if you feel it needs to be tweaked or clarified in some way.

The file you added File:US Soccer Federation (2016).png was non-free and non-free content usage is required to satisfy all 10 criteria listed in WP:NFCCP. One of these criteria is WP:NFCC#10c, which says, among other things, that a separate, specific non-free use rationale is required for each usage (emphasis is mine) of non-free content. You added the file to the article, but did not add a corresponding non-free use rationale to the file's page; therefore, I removed it per WP:NFCCE (as I posted in my edit sum and further explained after the fact at User talk:Explicit#US soccer team crest). It is the responsibility of the editor uploading or adding non-free content to provide a valid rationale for each usage. Failure to do so means that the file may be tagged for speedy deletion per WP:F6 or removed per NFCCE. Moreover, adding a rationale does not automatically mean it's a valid rationale, but at the very least one needs to be provided. If another editor feels the rationale is not valid, then they can discuss the file's use at WP:FFD or challenge it per WP:F7. NFCCP begins with "There is no automatic entitlement to use non-free content in an article or elsewhere on Wikipedia" and ends with "Other non-free content—including all copyrighted images, audio and video clips, and other media files that lack a free content license—may be used on the English Wikipedia only where all 10 of the following criteria are met". It is the burden of those wishing to use such content to show (i.e., present a "far stronger argument") how a particular usage satisfies NFCC, not the other way around.

I can't really help you with the bureaucracy of Wikipedia; it's something we all have to deal with. If you disagree with a particular close of a discussion, then the thing to do is to try and discuss it with the editor who closed the discussion. If that leads nowhere, then the next step may be to ask for input from other editors via WP:DRV or WP:AN. Either way getting somewhat entangled in Wikipedia red tape seems unavoidable. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:52, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

The fact that you have written three paragraphs laced with impenetrable Wiki policy, rather than concisely explaining what the actual problem is, says everything about the potential to get this logically resolved (or lack thereof). Eightball (talk) 12:55, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
You added a non-free image to the article, but failed to provide the required non-free use rationale for said usage (per Wikipedia's non-free content policy) so the image was removed. When you want to add an image to an article, go to the file's page and check the licensing. If it's non-free, then just make sure you add the relevant non-free use rationale. If someone disputes the validity of the rationale, then they can discuss the file at FFD. The image currenty being used in the infobox is freely licensed; it's not subject to the NFCC, so there's nothing left to resolve. You can use that file in other articles if you like, just make sure WP:IUP is satisfied. If someone disagrees with you and removes it, then ask them to discuss it on the article's talk page like you would any other content dispute. -- Marchjuly (talk) 16:10, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

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