Talk:United States presidential pets
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
|This page was nominated for deletion on 24 January 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was speedy keep.|
Just a quick note: I removed "by president" from this article because we don't have equivalent lists by other criteria, and by president is the obvious (IMO) way to order things. The only other ordering that springs to mind is by type. Of course, we could have both orderings on the same page. Martin 00:02, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)
We could, I'm not sure whether it's worth while. We could list Presidents by the types of pets they owned too I guess...22.214.171.124 04:10, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)
At the moment "by president" seems to be in chronological order for the first several and then random (?) order after that. So I'll go with chronological (reverse) order, since I suspect that's how most folks think about the U.S. Prez's anyway. Elf | Talk 05:58, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Also owned a Badger Taxidea named Josiah. The Badger is included in letters of diplomats from Japan and other countries. I would like to add this item.
User:Jeebee25 08:24, 05 Jan 2007 (UTC)
Some of the recent additions are likely pets once ever owned by a President. Please read the very first line of the article (emphasis mine):
- "This is a list of pets belonging to United States Presidents and their families, while serving their term(s) in office."
If Martin Van Buren's tiger cubs weren't owned during his presidency, they should be removed...which would make him the only president without any pets in office. (If there's an article that says when he owned them, link to it here and say where it says when he owned them). I already added several hidden notes, including one about the cubs. I also added one about Andy Johnson's 'white mice'-does that mean literally white mice of a nonspecific species, or white-footed mice (currently linked)? It could also mean some other species. Some points:
- The Handy Book of Science Answers (Visible Ink Press, 2011) (https://books.google.ca/books?id=z2jlRq_0gOMC&lpg=PA516&ots=fyXDEP2suS&dq=quincy+adams+alligator&pg=PA516&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=quincy%20adams%20alligator&f=false) says 'pet mice'. It also says 'two tiger cubs' for Van Buren and 'billy goat' and 'Durham cow' for William Henry Harrison's cow and goat. I think 'billy goat' is a generic term (sorry if I'm wrong, but if so explain how) and 'Durham cow' sounds like a breed, but it's a red link.
- I know we shouldn't consider every printed source to be automatically always correct and infallible, but we shouldn't consider them always wrong, either. I think I'll go check some more sources and see what they say/if they agree or not. Hop on Bananas (talk) 16:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
A Treasury of Great American Scandals (Penguin Books, 2003) (https://books.google.ca/books?id=RBhvMg7gTAwC&pg=PT101&dq=andrew+johnson+mice&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCQQuwUwAWoVChMI5oetsdymyAIVRhUeCh2zRgRR#v=onepage&q=andrew%20johnson%20mice&f=false) says he left out flour for the mice that infested his bedroom. Would there be multiple species of mice in one bedroom? (Also, did the flour attract anything else)? If so, the assertion of 'pet mice' is correct, but I wonder where 'white mice' came from (I doubt that all the mice were white). Hop on Bananas (talk) 16:38, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Best Little Stories from the White House (Sourcebooks, 2012) (https://books.google.ca/books?id=KZPfAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT108&dq=andrew+johnson+mice&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCoQuwUwAmoVChMI5oetsdymyAIVRhUeCh2zRgRR#v=onepage&q=andrew%20johnson%20mice&f=false) agrees-it says just 'mice'. Hop on Bananas (talk) 16:41, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Also, someone mentioned earlier on this talk page that horses shouldn't be included since they weren't 'pets' but used as draft animals. (Were all horses used as draft animals? If Jimmy Polk's horse was, it should be removed as it was his only pet). Also see the section above about pets not owned while their owner was in office. Unfortunately, besides Van's 'briefly owned' tigers (see above), it doesn't say in the article when the pets were owned and a few/the most famous pets have their own pages (we could check their owner's pages or some related pages). I'm watching this page, so I'll know if anyone makes any major (or minor) changes. Hop on Bananas (talk) 17:04, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Edit:the post about horses/donkeys not being pets, it refers to 'the earlier presidents'. I'm not sure what the limits for that are-it would probably include John Adams's horse (Cleopatra) and maybe Polk's horse but not Ronald Reagan's horses (he kept them at Rancho del Cielo anyway-did he use them)? (Sorry for the quintuple post). Hop on Bananas (talk) 17:04, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
I'd like to see the recently-added stars (*) in the table replaced with proper footnotes, per WP:REFGROUP. A separate refgroup could be used, with the notes listed either before the table (as they are now) or after it.
Another issue is that I'm not sure these notes really add value to the article. Unknown to who? If we don't know the exact number or species, shouldn't we just leave it out? Kendall-K1 (talk) 17:41, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Well, we could just leave them out and assume the reader will assume that (for example)
*(name) - Dog
means the breed is unknown. 'Unknown to whom'? I'd assume it means we don't have enough evidence, so basically no one knows.
So I tried to replace the asterisks with a note list, but I only got to Thomas Jefferson before I realised "Okay, this is too much of a doozy to do all at once, I should sandbox it". I tried to copy the source from the edit page, but it's hard to copy from the source on an iPad (copying in general seems to be wonky). Can someone with a different device copy it into a sandbox for me? (Is creating a sandbox for someone else, even if it's because of technical problems, allowed)? Hop on Bananas (talk) 15:39, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
- I created a sandbox page at User:Hop on Bananas/Sandbox/United States presidential pets. Note that the categories have colons in front of them so the page doesn't show up on the actual category pages. Hope that helps. SchreiberBike | ⌨ 18:21, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
I changed the first three entries (George Washington, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson) from asterisks to notes in the sandbox. I'll post updates here. (Will I be the only one doing this? For anyone who wants to help, please follow the format I started). Hop on Bananas (talk) 19:18, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
I finished Franklin Pierce through Andrew Johnson. For anyone who wants to help, here's the format:
<ref group="Pet's Statuses"Name/breed/species/number (if there are multiple pets in the same entry, pluralise the first word) unknown</ref>
I finished Ulysses S. Grant, but it got so tiring adding the markup that I stopped after one president (the more pets the president has, the worse it is). Is there a way to get this done quicker? Also, why am I the only one posting in this thread since I started the updates? Hop on Bananas (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:27, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
I'm confused as to why you're doing it this way. There should just be four possible footnotes:
- <ref name="name unknown" group="ps">Name unknown</ref>
- <ref name="breed unknown" group="ps">Breed unknown</ref>
- <ref name="species unknown" group="ps">Species unknown</ref>
- <ref name="number unknown" group="ps">Number unknown</ref>
Then your table looks like this:
- Polly – parrot[ps 1] (taught to swear) [ I've given the text here because it's the first time I've used "species unknown"]
- Cookie – parrot[ps 1] (not taught to swear) [ I don't need the text here because I've already used "species unknown"]
- Fighting cocks[ps 2][ps 3]
- Bolivia, Emily, Lady Nashville, Sam Patches, and Truxton – Horses[ps 4]
And your notes section looks like this:
- Species unknown
- Cite error: The named reference
name_unknownwas invoked but never defined (see the help page).
- Number unknown
- Breed unknown
Well, could I at least get some help converting both my current format and the unchanged stars to your format? I don't think it will be much less of a doozy... Hop on Bananas (talk) 22:33, 9 October 2015 (UTC)