Talk:Vagrant Story

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Featured article Vagrant Story is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
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Improvement[edit]

I think this article could use some character bios and plot analysis, as it has a deep and involving story and those who've played it swear by that. (70.49.130.109 01:16, 25 October 2005 (UTC))

Not to mention the highly acclaimed soundtrack.PiccoloNamek 02:53, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Iron Maiden[edit]

I though the dungeon was named after the Iron maiden (the torture device). Can someone back this statement up? Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 12:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

That could also be the case, but take a look at the names of the individual rooms INSIDE the Iron Maiden. "Run to the Hills", indeed. teh TK 13:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm saying I don't know squat about the band. That is why I am asking. Was that a confirmation? Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 01:37, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Wow, I'm really late responding here. Yes, it's a confirmation. I could dig up a Google link to source it if I really had to but anyone who's played the game and knows anything about the band Iron Maiden will back me up on this. teh TK 11:22, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, if you could provide some examples that would be great. I've only heard "In the garden of eden" from that episode of The Simpsons. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 03:23, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I found a page that claims to be an exhaustive compilation of room names, if either of you feel like cross-referencing those with a list of iron maiden songs (this one was the first one google came up with), then it'll be a good case... though I've got to admit, I'm more in favor of the torture device, since all the room names in that zone are torture related (Ducking Stool, Hanging, Impalement, Sprinkler, Squassation, Strappado, Thumbscrews, Pendulum, Dragging, Strangulation, etc, etc, etc) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Matt.lohkamp (talkcontribs) 21:59, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm almost positive that the Iron Maiden is a referral to the torture device, since almost every room inside is named after torture devices. I have played the game through more than 6 times and although I don't know much about Iron Maiden (band, although itself is named after the device...) I wouldn't put it past the developers to add a joke by naming a room or two after a song. They did name an extremely difficult to access treasure room "Kilroy Was Here" :]] PS @Cyberskull: are you sure you are not referring to "Ina Gadda Da Vida" by Iron Butterfly? A google search came up with no hits for that song title by Iron Maiden, but the other by Iron Butterfly is quite popular and supposed to be a slurred rendition of "In the Garden of Eden". Maladroitmortal (talk) 06:27, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Leá Monde[edit]

First of all, I love this game a lot, I personally think this is Matsuno's best. My main point: I am going to add a subsection that tells about Leá Monde. I dug some source from the story itself. If anyone wants to help, by all means, please do. Bluerfn 08:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Done adding up bits and pieces for the Story section, and rewriting wherever I could. Wish had more references and sources though. 私はBluerです 21:13, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Well there isn't *much* materials released concerning Vagrant Story as far as I know. Kariteh 22:32, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Introduction as Riskbreaker[edit]

Could we get a copy edit on the first paragraph? I don't think it's right to use an in-universe description to introduce Ashley Riot (he's a "Riskbreaker"). Until to you read the next section, what's a Riskbreaker?--Htmlism 01:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Number of disks?[edit]

I've never played Vagrant Story, but the case artwork has a "2 discs" label, whereas the side bar text says the game media is 1 CD-ROM. The article makes no mention of a possible inconsistency here. 76.185.92.143 20:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

It came with a demo disc for some other Square games. Moogy (talk) 22:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Mine didn't (GH). My point is, the actual game itself spans but one disc. (Momus 23:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC))

Spoilers[edit]

The reason I added a spoiler warning for the characters section is because the other "story" sections contain no major spoilers, detailing instead the premise of the game, while the character bios go straight to the most important plot points and descriptions of the ending. Seems like a big difference to me, and not one that someone reading the article for the first time would assume. Besides, if every "story" header implied a spoiler warning, we wouldn't need those tags; where else do they get used? (note that even articles with "plot summary" in the title still use spoiler tags) ShaleZero 20:52, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler tags are not needed for this article falls under WikiProject Square Enix, consequently the parent of WikiProject Final Fantasy which shares the manual of style, and therefore the policy is under General Rules 10 - Spoiler warnings will not be used in sections under story headings, such as "characters" and "plot". Good day. 私はBluerfnです 08:04, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
My apologies; I wasn't aware Square-Enix games had their own set of rules. I still can't say I agree with the logic, but far be it from me to try and change the entire group's minds. ShaleZero 08:11, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
While I totally agree on not putting spoiler tags, I wonder how "legal" this is in terms of rules and stuff. The Square Enix wikiprojet does NOT have a manual of style, and as far as I know manuals of style are not retroactive; the FF wikiproject having a manual doesn't mean it applies to the parent SE wikiproject (it would apply to the parent CVG wikiproject else, and thus to virtually ALL wikiprojects? this makes no sense). Perhaps the SE wikiproject should officially choose or make their manual so that there will be no ambiguity. Kariteh 10:52, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Trivia & Connexions[edit]

The spanish version of this page has much trivias and connexions about the game. Can anyone translate and add it to the article ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.202.118.238 (talkcontribs)

Actually, that was the former shell of the english article translated into spanish, before much fancruft, speculations and trivia have been removed to avoid being a fansite article. The article is so far looking okay, don't spoil it. Bluerです。 なにか? 17:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

GA on Hold[edit]

The article looks good and is well on the way to GA-class. It wouldn't take much more work to raise this to FA-class, though I'd suggest a Peer Review of the article first. There are a couple items which need to be addressed before I'll pass this as a GA:

The article also needs a thorough copyedit, but nothing too major. Just take a look through and polish those sentences a bit... some of them are still pretty rough. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you've got any questions. Cheers, LankybuggerYell ○ 15:35, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Further comments...
Two sources found to have disappeared or resized the image: for Image:VSUltimania.jpg, Digicube's website defunct following bankruptcy and Image:Ashley and callo by akihiko yoshida.jpg had the exact picture resized. Image:Vagrantstoryost.jpg source has been found. — Bluerです。 なにか? 16:38, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I made a few random tweaks to the first few paragraphs. The prose isn't horrible, but it does need work; definitely needs work if it's going to become a FA, but it's probably GA-worthy.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Deckiller (talkcontribs)
Rewrote the Development section with info scoured from archived and hard-to-find pages. — Bluerです。 なにか? 16:38, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
All right... All the images have been sourced and the development section looks fine. Good job! I'll go ahead and pass this as a GA now. Cheers, LankyYell ○ 19:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy References[edit]

Shouldn't this article mention the generally-accepted idea that this game takes place in the same world as Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy XII?

Found one reference for that. Done. — Bluerです。 なにか? 14:41, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
The remarkable thing is that not only was Vagrant Story NOT connected to Ivalice originally, but was intended to be set away from the Final Fantasy series entirely. I'm curious as to what changed his mind and made him include references to it in FFXII, unless he just thought that'd make it more interesting. Still, considering there was no connection to begin with, I don't think such a retcon needed to happen. Pity it's irreversable now. --Dakmordian (talk) 12:36, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
I just put in the Ivalice Tie-ins section. If you could help tidy it up, add some stuff...I don't know. I think it was a good addition, since I'm an Ivalice fan.Daganolson (talk) 18:45, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Automated PR Response[edit]

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  • Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Wikipedia:Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[?]
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    • apparently
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You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, APR t 23:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Featured Article![edit]

Vagrant Story has been promoted to Featured Article! Congratulations! Thank you to everyone who had been involved with Vagrant Story's push to FA, it couldn't have been done without your contributions. Well done! — Bluerで す。 01:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Awesome! I hope it gets featured on the main page. Kariteh 07:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Excellent work; glad to help. — Deckiller 16:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Great job, everyone! Glad to help out. Sjones23 22:04, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
See that post at the top of this discussion page? It wasn't made while signed in but that's mine, I swear. Thank you all for making my dreams come true. :*) (Momus 01:23, 7 July 2007 (UTC))
All it takes is a dedicated fanboy and wikipedians to bring it at that :) — Blue 05:13, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Maintaining FA[edit]

It's nice to see video game articles reach FA status, but I was reading the Plot section of this article and noticed a few small problems. I'm not too familiar with the plot of this game, so I leave it so someone else to fix them. Here are some specifics.

  1. She begins to develop the powers of "heart-seeing" as they continue their escape deeper into Leá Monde. Heart-seeing is not mentioned before this. What is it? This makes the sentence confusing, even when taken in context with the rest of the paragraph.
  2. While discussing the Gran Grimoire, Guildenstern and Samantha discover ancient Kildean letterings carved throughout the city walls. Rosencrantz revealed to the couple that the city is the Gran Grimoire and its power lies at the city center: the Grand Cathedral. As Guildenstern leave for the Grand Cathedral, Rosencrantz went to search for Ashley and Sydney. Finding them, Rosencrantz used his immunity against Darkness and forces Sydney to surrender his powers. Rosencrantz also assaulted Ashley to prove that he was not a suitable candidate for the powers of Darkness. Sydney refuses and killed Rosencrantz by using a possessed statue, leaving Ashley to once again prove himself as Sydney's successor. This entire paragraph has problems. It frequently switches between present and past tense while explaining the events of the game. Also, the Gran Grimoire is not mentioned before this, and is not given a decent explanation anywhere else in the article. Since I haven't played the game, I don't know what a Gran Grimoire is.
  3. Ashley arrived in the Great Cathedral where Sydney reveals his intentions. Guildenstern had killed Samantha for the dark powers, and persuaded Ashley in joining him. Unmoved, the Riskbreaker faces off Guildenstern in the final battle. These three sentences are confusing. The first sentence uses past tense and present tense together, and the second sentence doesn't make sense to me. Does it mean the Guildenstern attempted to persuade Ashley to join him, but that Ashley (the Riskbreaker) was unmoved by this attempt?

New User 22:07, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

First of all, these are mostly tense problems. Some of it you can edit without familiarity of the plot, like example 3! But I have to admit those two phrases need explanation, will do that. — Blue 22:25, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Canadian release date[edit]

It needs to be found since it wasn't the same as in the United States, according to the GIA[1]. Kariteh 11:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

And that is why we have to use "USA" in the infobox instead of "NA", by the way. Kariteh (talk) 18:32, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Difference between DigiCube's and Square Enix's Vagrant Story OSTs[edit]

According to this message board, the OST re-release by Square Enix was remastered and sounds different than the original release. Can anyone confirm? Kariteh (talk) 08:58, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Graphics impression[edit]

I find it mildly annoying how wikipedia no-POV instance truly makes articles look sterile and out of touch with reality. Reality is that back in 2000, this game completely blow my socks away in the graphics department, and that was a good 2 years after both MGS and FFVIII! Kinda like GoW2 on the PS2, possibly the Swann Song of the console and its finest crafted graphics for the hardware no doubt. It had even a simulated focal blur by rendering foreground objects transparently from small differing viewing angles. Quite a feat and was noted! There, my completely personal and biased take on a subject which won't ever make to wikipedia's front page of the article. 201.47.188.2 (talk) 20:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 04:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Interview with Yasumi Matsuno[edit]

First off, is Ashley Riot the "vagrant" of the games title?

(YM)--Ashley later labels himself as a vagrant and becomes involved in many incidents. This Lea Monde Incident is a story that explains how VKP agent Ashley has become an Outsider.

Would you describe this game as an action game, a role-playing game, a strategy game, an adventure game or...? (YM)--It encompasses all of these genres and at the same time, it doesn't fit into any of them. In a bad way, it takes bits and pieces from various types of games. In a good way, it is a new breed of game that does not take any form of pre existing style.

Sydney Losstarot doesn't look like most gaming "villains", more like Luke Skywalker then Darth Vader, actually. Why does the Chief baddie look so good? (YM)--Rather then those labeled as inherent "villains", those that appear good and flaunt their power are closer to the truly evil characters. As an individual who broke the law, Sydney is by definition, an outlaw, or villain. But as a man who tries to make the future of the world a better place, he is a revolutionary that is also kind to his father. In terms of the story, from the beginning I had always thought that Ashley would be entrusted with the fate or destiny that Sydney carries throughout the story. So it would not work if Sydney was a sterotypical villain. I had to make the player feel as if they could relate to Sydney's lifestyle and destiny; it was necessary for the player to sympathize with Sydney.

How long did it take you to create this game? How many people worked on it? (YM)--Exculding the movie department (responsible for the beginning CG movie), the number of the staff that actually worked on game development is about 50. We started in January of 98 with an initial number of 20 people. We steadily increased members and had a maximum number of 50 at our peak. At the time of master up in January 2000, we had approximately 30 people.

Did it change drastically from pre-production to end-result? (YM)--It changed greatly. Due to capacity and development time, over half the senario had to be cut With this, it was also necessary to cut out gaming elements as well. There were AI controlled NPCs that supported Ashley in the middle of the story, but they had to be cut as well due to memory restrictions. There were also more polygons per map that gave elaborate representations, but in order to increase processing speed, it was necessary to reduce the number of Polygons. But in the end, we are proud that we were able to implement the best features on the PS hardware.

{I just had to cut in here and say OVER HALF???? How about a Director's cut version?}.

What was the toughest hurdle you faced in building it? (YM)--As a team, it was probably the memory issue. We were always lacking main memory. (laughs). Making slight adjustments, improving interface, increasing the quality of the game balance, adding textures, basically when doing anything in the realm of game development, memory is crucial. Having to share between each section or at times, aggressively taking back memory and making that choice was what was the most difficult aspect.

What's your favorite part or scene in Vagrant Story? (YM)--My favorite scene is from the last battle to the ending where the staff credits role.

What was your inspiration for the plot of this game? We see everything from Shakespeare to Jet Li. (YM)--I have a passion for movies since I was young. I wasn't just limited to Hollywood classics and blockbuster releases, but I also watched many genres such as films in Europe and Asia as well. I think these films played an integral part in development.

Do any of the characters (or monsters!) resemble people or things from your own life? Scary bedtime stories? (YM)--I cannot specify, but I guess it is possible to switch the stage to the present.

As far as gameplay goes, what sets Vagrant STory apart from, say, Final Fantasy Tactics? Are there any new gaming features developed for this title? (YM)--Vagrant and FFT are completely different games. It is true that the majority of games that I have been involved in are simulation RPGs. and I think that my knowledge of that genre is apparent in Vagrant. But when compared to FFT, it is something completely different. It's difficult to explain in one sentence, but in FFT, it was necessary to have several units mature and have them battle. But in Vagrant, the player can only control one character. And rather than having the character mature, it is more crucial to develop the weapons and armor. Since the action element is strong, development of the player may also be necessary.

Beside the SquareSoft titles, what do you think are the greatest games of the last few years? (YM)--There are many (laughs). For PC games, network games such as "Ever Quest" and "Age of Empires." For the PS, "Metal Gear Solid", "Resident Evil." For Nintendo 64, "Legend of Zelda" and "Ogre Battle 64". The most I've spent in terms of money and time is "Ultima Online". (laughs) Unlike the Final Fantasy series and Metal Gear Solid, Vagrant is geared toward hard core gamers. It is probably not geared for those who tend to ask for hints and read through Strategy guides. This not only refers to the game itself but the scenario as well. I say this because the story is told in a way that allows players to use their imagination. it shouldn't be bought with expectation of a Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid. I'm stating this because the playing method and satisfaction vector is different from other games. Seafood vs. meat dishes, French Cuisine vs. Japanese Cuisine, soccer vs. baseball, rock vs. jazz, Titanic vs. The Blair Witch Project. The vectors are different like the examples given above.

[2]

Ultimania development information currently not in the article[edit]

The following pages from the Vagrant Story Ultimania should be translated and used to expand the current incomplete article:

Anyone willing to help translate even one page is welcome! Jonathan Hardin' (talk) 15:54, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Updated the links. Jonathan Hardin' (talk) 19:31, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Reception[edit]

The article says that the game was critically acclaimed when it came out, but I seem to recall a much more lukewarm response when it came out. Many people had a hard time getting used to the combat system (which I believe the article at least mentions, briefly), and I seem to recall Square letting a fair amount of people go after Vagrant Story was released as a result of it not doing as well as they'd have liked. Such a thing happened with Xenogears, as well, if I'm not mistaken.--Dakmordian (talk) 12:36, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I've reverted this change to the original wording because the original wording is much easier to ascertain than the changed one i.e. we have sources for that. — Blue 05:09, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Final Fantasy References II[edit]

"As a result, any references he had made of Final Fantasy Tactics in Vagrant Story, as well as Vagrant Story references in Final Fantasy XII, only serve as 'fan service.'[74] This is a clear misrepresentation of what was tweeted and referenced. As generally agreed above he made those references and clearly they don't "only serve as fan service" anymore. Please stop changing my edit or at least find a way to explain it properly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mimic716 (talkcontribs) 10:58, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Clearly at the time he made VS, three years after he made FFT, he originally conceived the VS universe separate from FFT but placed the references to FFT as allusions for fans to enjoy. This also means that ever since FFXII came out, VS became linked to other Ivalice titles even though this was not the original intention. If the written statement is incorrect, the wording should be changed to correctly cite the statement given by Matsuno.
But the statement "However this does NOT mean that the games take place in different worlds or universes" needs to be sourced and also written in the tone fitting with the entire article. So far the only source we have is yourself in your edit summary saying "there's no citation specifically stating that these are separate worlds or universes. Saying otherwise is inserting your own opinion", but aren't you also inserting your own opinion in this regard? I recommend finding some citations to strongly support your claim and find a way to convey the information better. — Blue 16:41, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

First off allow me to apologize for the combative or unethical direction this dispute may have taken, and also let me thank Bluerfn for taking the time to organize this talk section and the Vagrant Story wiki page. I'm a new contributor and this is a subject I can generally be passionate about, and I'm sure Bluerfn feels the same way. Anyway!

Just because he made one tweet saying that the references were originally intended as fan-service that doesn't automatically mean the games take place in different universes or worlds. The tweets are so short that I fail to see how you can derive that much from it. I don't feel the burden of proof is on me in this situation considering the multiple references spanning all of the games, from Vagrant Story to Final Fantasy XII and beyond. The Final Fantasy Wiki goes into great length all of the recurring places and characters, as well as the titles. And while I'm sure that is not in dispute I feel it's a great leap in logic to go from "it was fan-service desu" to "it all can only ever be considered as fan-service." I believe this is a case of a writer or artist simply not wanting to take the credit he deserves.

While it's fair to say that Vagrant Story never made an explicit mention to Ivalice (its world had a very generic French name "Leá Monde" which very simply means "the World"... which could obviously mean any world at all) its links are far too numerous and prevalent to discount as mere fan-service anymore. And while it's also fair to say that he may have regretted it later, and thought that Vagrant Story had a world that was worthy of being independent it almost certainly is now a part of that franchise without question.

To say that the games take place in separate universes or worlds when they explicitly mention and reference one another is a bit like saying a plumber dressed in green in a Mario Bros. game isn't necessarily Luigi, even if someone important from the Mario franchise tweeted one day that he wasn't originally intended to be Luigi or was merely fan-service. Everyone knows the green plumber is Luigi just like how VS fans know what a Riskbreaker is.Mimic716 (talk) 01:05, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

I believe you are confused with the intended statement in the Legacy section, specifically the paragraph. The paragraph is not arguing that VS took place in a separate universe from the Ivalice of FFXII and FFT. It simply states that Matsuno had conflicting ideas with the lore surrounding VS and the Ivalice games. The reader is free to establish whether VS takes place in the Ivalice of FFT or FFXII, and by Square Enix's standards it seems that they are retconning whatever it is Matsuno had intended.
The problem with your edit now is lack of verifiable info and the way the statement is written. The argument that in-game allusions establishes game connection is flimsy. Game articles rely on out-of-universe statements such as developer comments for references.
And it's funny that you cited the Final Fantasy Wiki, since I have worked as editor in there, mainly for Ivalice-related articles. — Blue 06:16, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm not really sure someone can draw a conclusion between "they take place on the same map" and "it's only fan-service." I'm also not really sure how "It just kind of fan service" turns into "it only serves as fan-service." Perhaps it would also be good to link to the fan-service wiki page so readers can understand what fan-service means in Japan.Mimic716 (talk) 07:47, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

I will be using some of the phrases in the fan-service article to explain what the context meant behind the tweet. It is probably best to rephrase it rather than quote his tweet word by word. Something to the lines of:
"...Final Fantasy XII are said to unfold quite close on the Ivalice map. The original plan, however, was not to place Vagrant Story in the Ivalice universe. Matsuno stated in 2011 via his Twitter account that the plot elements of Final Fantasy Tactics found in Vagrant Story were meant as intertextual reference to the Ivalice title as a form of "fan service".
This should probably help make the statement closer to the context than the previous statement which seem to add more words than Matsuno had stated. — Blue 07:52, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
This is agreeable, thanks. Mimic716 (talk) 02:07, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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